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Stairs going in now, upgraded to oak in the end as thought it was worth spending an extra 1k in this area. Limestone tumbled floor now complete in hall, kitchen and utility. These have really hurt the budget and taken up all of our PC sum for flooring. 22mm thick so lots of extra grout etc. Now it’s down I think it was well worth it, it’s much lighter in person and gone with a matt sealer. Downstairs toilet area now formed, quite small but enough for a toilet and small wall and slim vanity unit Our slush fund is now gone which was 20k so really need to try and stick to PC sum to completion.

Agree let the market set the price, instead of incentives. Government funding leads to people people paying way too much for heat pumps etc, the only people winning are companies that take advantage of the schemes. The tax payer gets screwed every time.

Get an underground one. Cost to install LPG boiler is significantly less then an ASHP, fuel costs +-10%, no idea about servicing an ASHP but our boiler is £100/yr. I can see benefit for ASHP if combined with decent size solar aray, but that’s even bigger capital expenditure. Personally go for LPG and spend the extra saved on insulation. I’d design the system to be able to just swap the lpg boiler for an ASHP at some point in the future if needed.

I thought I would resurrect this topic, following the recent increases in the price cap, to canvas opinion.. We're about to start work on our self-build next month, so still within time to decide/change our heating solution. And I must say it's really difficult at present prices to justify the additional benefit of ASHP. I do think it's a bit more of a philosophical decision at times, but wanted to get people's opinions on off-grid LPG vs ASHP. We are estimating a heat demand of circa 16k kWh per annum, and with the predicted cap unit price of electricity estimated to increase to £0.28ppl (https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/check-if-energy-price-cap-affects-you) from April, this is how the numbers are coming out (space heating only, not included DHW) ASHP Total Average heat input 16,839 Electricity ppu £0.28 Efficiency 3.5 Total required kwh 4,811 Total annual electricity cost £1,347.14 Average monthly electricity heating cost £112.26 LPG LPG Price ppl £0.40 KwH Per litre 7.08 Boiler Efficiency 0.9 Required heat input after efficiency loss 18,710 Litres required 2,643 Total annual LPG cost £1,057.08 Average monthly heating cost £88.09 % Saving 21.53% Difficult to justify on a financial basis at present (I've not even included capital costs to install ASHP). Still very much wanting to go this route. I want to 'bet' that electricity will come back down - or that the levy on electricity will be reduced - or that LPG will go up, but a 21% cost delta is quite a difference. Thoughts?

I’m a Winner …. Not dead yet but also not intending parting with any tools

I think the problem is that most people buy based on economic factors. The fact remains that an air source heat pump (at least a good one), buffer, and cylinder costs a lot more than a cheap combi. So economically there is no incentive for the average purchaser. It’s a different game when we are talking on his forum, as self builders, that generally are not as economically constrained and want the ‘best’ not necessarily the cheapest. One could argue the scheme shouldn’t benefit self builders who could afford an ASHP and probably don’t need the grant to make their decision. But I suspect that of the 450million being provided in grants, the number provided to self builders is vanishingly small. My parents for example, living in a well insulated new build with a combi boiler have zero incentive to swap to ASHP or renewable heating - without a grant. In actual fact the problem is that the market has set the price - and hydrocarbon based heating is way cheaper. Market forces often encourage the opposite behaviour that we might want. I can say this as someone who is absolutely being driven by this force! Do I go for the, ostensibly ‘cheaper’ solution - and stick a gas system in or do the ‘right’ thing and choose greener heating. Well the decision becomes much easier knowing that the capital outlay is nearly balanced between both with a £5k voucher. Were it not for increasing electricity costs it would be a no brainier for me at this point to go ASHP. Like all things self build it’s probably not as massive a decision as I think it is, but I find myself agonising over these elements of my build!

That is classed as a culvert and not a drain - doesn’t need any access. In fact they are better sealed so if it does overflow due to being blocked at the far end it won’t overflow into your garden. Just use a couple of 22.5° bends to get a nice long slow change in direction and concrete them in to stop them moving.

..?? How ..? ASHP can be diy install, boiler can’t be. ASHP service ..?? Blow the condenser through with an air line and check the gas pressure every 3 years - pretty easy for any refrigeration engineer.

Wow people have far to much time on their hands...and money I must being boring with a £2 manual switch, not sure how I cope.

Lol it was cheap and I would get buttons for it. Yep it was more an anti hoarding measure. It has been really useful and saved me a few grand. I will probably keep it for a while to see if there is anything useful I can do with it. *you tubes juggling

A mate of mine used one for cutting green oak timbers for his barn conversion.

I've seen GRP angle but not used it for anything. It's certainly strong stuff if you're talking about 50mm x 50mm. I should think it's easy to drill so bolting a framework together shouldn't be a problem. Maybe @PeterW has used it.

Yes, an excel spreadsheet is what we did, don’t need to provide evidence, but we were realistic with the prices. Get an idea of costs from builders, joiners, plumbers, UFH, kitchen, heat pump etc.

Hi @crispy_wafer at present the main incentive seems to be the Boiler Upgrade Scheme which offers a 5k grant for ASHP installation. It kicks off in March and is replacing the renewable heat incentive scheme.

Didn't think its a sound idea? Well this is my starter for ten to go in our downstairs loo...(we are only single storey but..what else to call it?). There is a shower in this room so it was going to have a RH sensor. I have added a PIR to the RH sensor. I have also included a light sensor, more to determine who has left the light on.... (I know who it is... but need to catch them) The sensors connect to a D1mini wifi micro controller running esp-easy. The output via wifi goes to a MQTT server running on a respberry pi. This also runs Node red as the control software and Web user interface. Node red controls all my heat recovery and heating activity including recording data to an SQL server. So to trigger "additional ventilation". I have ordered a mic and ADC (anolog to digital converter) recorder that will create a sound file to be stored in segments as triggered by the PIR. Software on the pi will look at the sound files to learn when the ventilation needs to be activated above the background level and for how long. Pictures are the PIR, RH and light sensors built on the back of a single blank face plate. This goes in the ceiling not far from the extract vent and one of the lights.

prior to the acid bath/pig food

We did our own and got the architect to put it on his headed paper. No issues.

Why not go hybrid and have both ASHP and LPG

Make sure tiler puts expansion joints across EVERY doorway

And approved contractor prices. Anglian will inspect if you don’t use their contractors but tbh from experience that’s a video walk around …!

https://www.sageappliances.com/uk/en/products/espresso/bes875.html

As above just do your own, we did this and no problems ??

Nope, submit your own - that's all I did and they didn't question it.

Useful for cutting dolphins out of gill nets. Advertise it in a sea fishing mag.

What saw is it, where are you and how much would you want for it? If you have a lot of woodland is it not worth keeping it and installing a WBS?

https://rbjplastics.com/standard-profiles/glass-fibre-angles.html

I would have thought it’s only useful If you want to cut logs for a woodburner in the future, if not other saws will do the building work.

was it a cheapie? Keep it...

If I could only choose one I would go for the PM rather than the QS. However I would want the PM to be a builder or ex builder not a professional project manager that last worked on some failed government IT project. I would expect him to be on site to open up at 7am and pickup jobs nobody owns. Things like keeping trades supplied with materials. If necessary going to the Builders Merchant on the way home after closing the site to buy stuff to keep people working next day. Last thing you want are the brick layers going off site to buy cement, you wont see them for hours.

Horstmann is 5W according to the data sheet so 6 hours day / 120 heating days a year that’s 3.6kWh… or 75p

I'll need to borrow your tape measure first, to make sure I measure it up correctly. ?

I must agree with you, hence my first suggestion of dMEV. Very little running cost, good ventilation, as long as you have good cross flow. For way less cost than MVHR, you have condition based dMEV. Some light reading attached. Atamate_SDAR+Paper+2019+(1).pdf

As you are about to put roof trusses on it is a bit late to be bringing this up and all talk of ripping out the foundations is fanciful. It does not sound like the 160mm made much difference. If it is an internal wall I assume you gained a bit of space in one room and lost it in another. If you harp on about this you will just piss off the builder. Just try to keep the job moving and try to make sure you spot any further cock-ups early on. At best, do like @markc says and see if you can get some extras included.

I'll play devils advocate and say probably not. It's unlikely that your final air tightness will be better than 5m³/m².h @50Pa. Maybe your extension will be built to a level that could achieve slightly better, but it is unlikely that in combination with the existing house that the overall air tightness will be better. Down to an infiltration rate of 3m³/m².h @50Pa, building regs imply that mechanical ventilation is unnecessary since there is sufficient background air changes for reasonable air quality. Yes, these back ground air changes are uncontrolled and have no heat recovery, but they are there whether or not you fit MVHR. If you do fit MVHR you are creating additional air changes, although you should recover 80% - 90% of the energy, but you loose the 10-20 percentage points unnecessarily, since you don't need the mechanical ventilation for air quality. For me, with a ventilation rate above 3m³/m².h @50Pa, MVHR is an unnecessary expense that requires future filter changes and occasional servicing. Room extractors in bathrooms and trickle vents in the new windows are more cost effective. If you want to be sure, pay a couple of hundred pounds for an air tightness test prior to the extension starting and see what your baseline figure is. If it is close to say, 5m³/m².h @50Pa, then maybe it's worth doing the extra detailing on the extension to try and bring the overall figure down to somewhere near where an MVHR system adds value.

Our house for comparison. I'm disappointed with the performance of the roof lights ?

A PM will want 10-15% of the build budget for their fee, as would a main contractor. A PM is going to be more neutral vs a MC. A PM can work with a QoS to get a costing plan (on which they will base their fee). They will probably justify their fee by saying they'll 'beat the budget' but in my experience you can do this on your own. QoS should be a fixed fee but will expect some degree of detailed drawing from which to cost. Note that there is a LOT of variation in timber frame systems depending on your performance requirement (bog standard regs, high SAP, passive etc) and in what the frame co provides - supply only, supply & erection, flooring, all internal walls, temp stairs, foundation system, felt & batten roof, crane hire, crew safety systems etc.. This makes it hard to to apples to apples comparisons so the best input for any QS is firm quotes from your preferred TF company. Many firms will generate these off your planning drawings and you choose your preferred system. The rest of the house is pretty standard irrespective of the superstructure which is usually 15-20% of the build cost.

If your 76 years old I would put 10 grand aside to cover your gas bill and spend the rest of your money going on holiday, sod the insulation.

I'm in the middle of a massive refurb of a 1970's bungalow. We've only kept the external walls and roof (and even that has had extensive repairs); all window/door positions and the slab have been relaid. Due to changing what we'd be doing (keeping and living in it vs selling) part way through we'd initially decided not to demolish and rebuild but now really wish we had done - would have been a lot quicker and would have solved a lot of our niggly annoyances with things we didn't resolve!

Depends on the situation, ours was a timberframe '70s with zero insulation except attic & 3 extensions over the years. It was the wrong way round for the garden, so we were needing to remove 75% internal timber walls We were going for a full refurb & reroof, and significant 130sqm extension. The refurb raised several concerns eith people in terms of what they might find. Overall project was around £500k refurb vs £540k rebuild (vat removed off rebuild), which made it a no brainer for us! Demolition was only around £15k IIRC.

I'm not sure I agree with any of that! For our new build, £14k for a full plumbing + ASHP installation vs £11k for Gas boiler from our builder. Have mains gas as an option but both builder & architect strongly encouraging ASHP, hoping with the £5k grant to smooth the transition. My research suggests they are entirely appropriate for certain properties, entirely inappropriate for others - our new build being an ideal case for ASHP. Whilst no expert in heating systems, I am a Mechanical Engineer with a career in Energy Sustainability - long term Electricity is the answer -vs- Fossil fuels, from a political point of view (Russia & OPEC) from a sustainability point of view (cheap Renewables & self generation). Throw in storage & Nuclear and 'green government taxing fossil fuel' vote winning its a no brainer over the next several years. Hydrogen is a laughably hopeless cause for anything other then large industrial equipment.

Even when I was planning this build a few years ago I wanted to get away from fossil fuels because of global warming . Perhaps I was lucky to find a (new) cheap ASHP on EBay . Then I installed the ASHP myself and even designed the heating myself (with lots of help on this forum) didn’t fancy the large tank buried or not and standing charges (which a lot of people forget when comparing gas). I like the fact that an ASHP is basically fridge technology and that’s been around fir years with no major issues. Unlike me there are lots of clever bods here that understand all the maths related to the subject, but mine works and I am very happy with it. The water is not tepid. Works fine even when the weather is cold and is not noisy.

Welcome @SBMS, unfortunately @Dave Jones must have had a bad experience with an ASHP as he is very negative about them, and don’t we know it? however there a quite a few here that have them and are very happy with them. Yes they are not like gas and produce hot water slowly but if designed correctly work very well. For example my house is well insulated but not quite passive levels and my 5KW ASHP keeps the house at 21’ with UFH downstairs only and a couple of electric towels rads upstairs. You will need a larger DHW tank and mine is full of 48’ water which is too hot to shower under and quite adequate fir all other uses. Mine can hardly be heard. Yes teamed up with PV would be a good as well. I bought my ASHP on EBAY cheap and installed it myself. Others will be along shortly with their experience.

We use about 10kWh per day powering "stuff" that is not heating or DHW and that is pretty constant throughout the year. Some day I will do an appliance by appliance measurement to try and see if there is anything we can save on, but at the moment short of watching less telly I can't see an easy saving. Re the tumble dryer. the compromise we have is it is NOT a "dryer" it is a "towel fluffing machine" Certain things like towels, socks and underwear "must" have a spell in the fluffing machine so they end up soft and fluffy. If they dry entirely naturally they fail the "fluffy" test and get described as "cardboard". So just half an hour un the fluffing machine does it, they don't come out dry, but then when hung on the airer in the utility room under an mvhr extract vent, when dried by that they do pass the fluffy test, as long as they have had the short time in the fluffy machine. One day I will pluck up the courage to see a a period in the fluffy machine on "cold" will have the effect of making them fluffy.

Keep it. Remember the famous saying, he who dies with the most tools wins??

You summoned me ?

Class F motor insulation is supposed to be good for 155 Degrees C so that's something to its credit. But I'm going to keep banging on about how much of the heat they generate is down to their electrical power consumption. Funny how that figure is seldom advertised.

just plasterboard over it. a real dungeon doesn't need light.

Ach, it burnt down uninsured. But I had 5 great years and sold the plot so now moving on old bean. No point looking back and ruminating ??

I have got used to the rasping feeling. Like tomatoes, I quite like it now. (I stopped wearing underwear as a new year resolution back in 2010, and have saved literally a few kWh of marginal energy since)