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Caveat preemptor - @nod is unique in achieving such low figures. Being in the trade, owning your own business and doing nearly everything yourself puts you in a unique position. I wish people would add context when posting figures on here. The unwitting, lay person will see such posts and potentially misjudge costings for their own potential build. There are very few who achieve figures of £1000/m2 and below. Very few. I would suggest that the average tends to sit between £1300 - £1800 per m2 and that is heavily dependent upon standard of finish and the amount of work you take on yourself. You will also find that people on here report their figures very differently, some may include everything such as legal costs, landscaping etc. etc., whilst others will not. Take the figures you see on here with a healthy dose of salt and question what they have included, else you may gain a false impression. The number I mention above is pre Covid madness, God only knows what the average is now. I daresay it is a fair chunk more.

Of course we are. They have never gone down, and apart from a few well organised BH members (see above) , very few of us have come in ' ...on price...' (there are many interpretations of the term 'price') Grand Designs - ands other similar programmes - tendency to statistical manipulation annoys many of us. Now my approach has had to become: There is a way round this challenge : just find it and do it. If the casual converstaions I have with folk walking past our build are an indicator, there are many (BH guests I suspect) reading these posts who regard self build as a priviledge. And I agree. Mostly. To answer you directly: No, its not the wrong time to start a self build. Because prices are only one of the many challenges self builders face

Apologies Heres some context While I own a business we used labour from our business for six man days only Extra pair of hands with the render for three days and one man to help me get the slates up onto the roof The footings and brickwork I did myself Even though I’m not a Brickie Then brought five Brickies in to build the rest I did all the joinery I’m not a joiner Most of the plumbing and electrical With the guidance of a sparks who did all the checks and terminations as did a heating engineer with the boiler and helped me with the UFH which I had no clue of to start with I’d never slater a roof before but learned With several hundred m2 of Italian tiles three German bathrooms and a expensive German kitchen We could have easily cut costs The clues in the title Self Build If you are looking at turn key The M2 price will be high While people need to be realistic with there budget I don’t think shooting there self build dream down before they start is encouraging Anyone needing context from posts on here only need to look at previous posts I’m sure I’ve put a spreadsheet on when we did our vat claim Or they can always Ask ?

Fully agree, don’t count on £/m2 rates for any kind of financial planning. The difference between £1500 and £2000/m2 on the average self build is £100k or more. Get a costing done by a QS or online estimator, then add all the utilities, fees and finishes. Don’t forget garage and landscaping which can be significant costs. If you must use a rate for basic forecasting, I would start with £2000/m2 at the moment even for fairly basic spec. * in the midlands *

That only looks big because of span not weight - the roof is the only load isn’t it or is there some sort of additional wall going above ..? Padstones look like they’ve been cut from a 1200mm concrete lintel hence the size…. Not the best I’ve seen but not the worst - the two lintels with a welded plate will stop it all going anywhere.

FURTHER UPDATE: (Apologies if I’ve already posted this somewhere - I can’t recall) I went back to WPD before accepting the £3k quote to query again why we needed to fund the cable upgrade (as I suspected that they needed to do this in any case). Having read their licence terms, I found that I could request data on the demands on the cable, which I duly requested. Having done so, it put them in a bit of a tailspin. This resulted in a phone call from someone more senior, wanting to know why I wanted this information. I explained my suspicions about funding a necessary local area upgrade. Next thing I know, I get a new quote: £938… (not the data I asked for though!), but they spontaneously decided to fund the upgrade themselves…!!! Now they’ve been in touch offering for me to pop my other utilities in their trench at no cost to me. ☺️

We have sold our property and have had our offer accepted on a building plot. The plot price is reasonable for the current market and we obtained a price that we were very happy with for our house, but inflation is concerning me. I feel the 2% inflation figure is actually way off and if you take inflation with regards to building materials / costs it is running higher than 2%. My concern is that build costs and construction costs are going to push the build costs way in excess of our budgeted £1000 - £1300 m2 Are other self builders seeing that their build costs are now beginning to spiral?

Indeed reasonable to the clapham omnibus passenger. Except that I have a right of set off clause in the contract as well, so I can set off what he owes me in liquidated damages against what I owe him. (I pay him in arrears.) So the only way it would get to Court would be if he sued me for withholding the last few payments to account for my rent. The liquidated damages in dispute would be lower than the small claims track limit, and so the Court wouldn't allow expert evidence, and all the variation notices he has issued show the breakdown in labour costs and materials, so there is already very good contemporaneous evidence that the variations amount to less than the time extension he's already had. But I agree that it's better to talk it over a cuppa than resort to litigation, and I will always try to talk things through. But for the conversation to be productive he needs to understand that he's not the only one that loses money if there is a delay; I lose as well. I just get the impression he thinks that because I've agreed to every price variation notice he's issued and the request for an extension which he's requested, I'm made of money and he's got that seriously wrong. So we need to find a way of working out how to mitigate delays.

Hi everyone, I've done a bit more research on a few more things and been back to the property for a better look. I've done my best to measure and assess the visibility splays and taken some pics. Below. According to the regs there isn't sufficient view of the road to the east for a derestricted road, however it could be argued that because of the steep incline traffic cannot gain the speeds assumed on the approach to the property. Even at speeds up to 53mph, which is unlikely, the regs call for a clear view of 160m. There is actually 178m clear view. When standing 2.4m back from the road edge the gate posts and stone walls obscure the view, however there's plenty room and scope to splay the entrance assuming this is acceptable/allowable in an AONB. I'd very much appreciate your views Note: Where it says incline is approx 95m, it should actually be 72m. Many thanks, Minskin

Back on thread... Never thought I'd say it but it's looking like Knightsbridge! ? The fact it's apparently IP65 is the seller for me. Then it appears quite subtle. They'll only come on anyway when the gates open. https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GLWALL1LBK.html?

Aka folds and creases...

If you implement the LADs clause your are going to get into all sorts of interesting discussions about the weather, materials shortages, COVID and possible spec alterations if you have made any. The outcome of discussions will probably result in him walking off site - think carefully how you want to kick this chat off!

I haven't looked at prices recently but i remember when I bought some last that Steicotherm boards (for plastic fixing to walls) were considerably cheaper than other options. But I don't know off hand how they compare to Pavatex Isolair. And you can still chase cables into the boards, put some capping over and then render.

Can't remember exactly what I've got running to the pillar underground... - 2.5mm2 3-core swa - Duct grade Cat-6 - A multi-core screened cable for luck...can't remember the spec.

a. yes : better to use lime but for a small area probably won't matter using gypsum b. no c. definitely no d. no original lime render is performing a role as an airtight layer so bet to leave it in place. The other overall option if the existing render is reasonably flat is to use woodfibre boards that are fixed directly to the walls without any need for studs with a lime render on top. But I am guessing it might be a bit late to consider that.

We are in the middle of ours now and it is scary how things are going. We always had a contingency plan though and it looks like it will be needed. In our case it is a once in a lifetime project that has come towards the end of our life and not through choice. As above - just get on and do it.

There ya go @flanagaj: I would - Just Bloody Do It - .

We have our thermohouse panels installed for the flat roof: Here is their basic detail for a typical flat roof, but doesn't show how the void is ventilated: I spoke to them and they recommend soffit ventilation to stop the batons/firring strips from rotting. We want a minimal detail with render right up to the 90mm drip flashing, so I'm not sure how to achieve this... if it's even needed?

Relevant topic as I agreed a purchase price on a plot about 3 months ago but have yet to exchange contracts as there are ongoing delays at the Land Registry meaning the plot has not been officially registered. In the meantime the quotes I had for timber frame & groundworks have been increased by about 8%. I'm mulling over whether to pull out of the purchase. Dilemma - I've already sold by current home & renting it back from the new owner & prices of comparable existing houses have also risen due to the stupid stamp duty holiday. I've already sunk about about a grand into modifying the house plans & submitting planning amendments. In the end I'll probably still go ahead & just have to accept self build will cost more & take longer.

After more catching up with Building the Dream, I've prepared these show notes for Series 10 Episode 7 Cornwall (Falmouth). The programme was shown on More4 on 9 June 2021. The Self-builders: Sam (Inventor) & Esme. Two children (Evie May & Isla). Setting the Scene: Sept 2016 - Charlie visits to meet the self-builders & review site and plans. Plot is a very steeply sloping former quarry adjacent to owners’ workshop. Plot value of £100k. £150k build budget which Charlie thinks is “ambitious” (i.e. Building the Dream code for totally unrealistic). £350k expected value Triple storey upside down house to be built against cliff face. Charlie concerned about use of timber cladding in “damp” Cornwall so suggests they look at plastic or cement board alternatives. Also suggests opening out staircase to improve light to corridor. The Build Oct 2016 – Groundworks commence and immediately hit problems. Slope needs stabilising to support road above and £10k is spent on engineer’s fees before an acceptable scheme is signed off by highways in Sept 2017. 45 ground anchors are drilled in to 6m depth & covered with mesh. 250Te (owner says 250,000kg??) of rock is removed & 23Te of concrete is sprayed onto the mesh to complete the slope stabilisation. Apr 2018 – Foundations, blockwork & steel frame erected. Sept 2018 – Timber frame for top two floors arrives. Oct 2018 – Charlie visits. Timber frame erected. Kitchen/diner area is looking a little small so Charlie suggests a reconfiguration. Now expecting to complete in April 2019 sufficient to camp out in the build. £55k spent on groundworks & £125k overall. £37k budget remaining. The Visit to Another Self-build: Four bedroom upside down house overlooking the Somerset Levels. Built in 2012 by Graham (Architect) & Emily (Interior designer) Bisley. French oak flooring & wall cladding. Glazing above staircase. Moroccan tiling & stainless steel splashback in kitchen. Pocket door to separate off master suite (“Never used but it’s nice to have the option”). House name is Beacon View. The Build contd Feb 2019 – Windows delivered. Select copper tiles wrapped around cement board for cladding. 800 hand-made by Sam. Mar 2019 – Windows fitted. Self-fitting first fix plumbing & Earthwool insulation. Apr 2019 - £196,755 spent. £12.5k budget remaining & further £10k to be borrowed from family. Go with a budget stair – three flights for £1200. May 2019 – External rendering. First fix electrics not completed (Sam’s been working on them for 8 weeks). The “final” figures: Charlie revisits in May 2019 with the house not nearly complete. Actual build costs to date £217k with further £35kto complete. Total costs of £352k against revised expected valuation of £450-500k (2019 prices). In a post-script video, house is complete one year later. Extra Observations Timber frame was supplied by Perkins & Perry, a Cornish based timber frame supplier. Membrane used was Juta Vista Easy Trim.

The "economy" has a built in tendency to go through boom and bust cycles (in spite of one previous chancellor claiming to have eliminated that.) The best time to build is during a bust cycle, as long as your own finances will allow that. During a bust cycle everyone is afraid of spending money, afraid of loosing their job, so demand is low, no competition for material and labour is plenty. As soon as you get a hint of a boom cycle, everyone starts spending like they have to buy it now or they won't be able to afford it later, so demand goes through the roof, prices go up and it becomes hard to find material or labour. This is not the best time to be building as you can't proceed with much certainty about when it will get done and how much it will cost. But this is where we are now. A lot of people have spent the last 18 months doing nothing, spending nothing, shut up inside worrying. All that pent up demand and cash is now flowing. But few have the luxury of choosing when to build. Other circumstances will dictate that. My own guess: If this "boom" is just fuelled by the Covid lockdown and pent up demand, it will be short lived. Perhaps 2 years would be my guess? Then the realities of debt and inflation are going to hit home hard for a lot of people.

The general rule with basements is the smaller they are, the more they cost /m2 as there are fixed costs to consider and economies of scale. So this could end up being a very expensive space to build, adding very little value to your house and potentially becoming something of a logistical challenge to get kit in there, service it etc. Remember that a UVC will need means to vent hot water externally, ours has an outflow pipe next to the external door but was a proper head scratcher for a while.

+1

@Loz I don’t know the full spec but doing a quick fag packet, even with a 3.6N block and a reasonable end bearing load, a 225mm padstone is more than adequate. The key is that the beam isn’t overlapping the padstone. It’s also worth noting this is a steel with a flange so the padstone isn't required under the front flange - your builder has installed one so tbh they have gone over the spec required. I would really not be pushing or changing this with the BCO as the builder has done a fair job with that - SEng has gone over spec by the looks of it and there are bigger problems on builds - doubt BCO would even notice and it’s going nowhere.

Yes expecting to pay 10% more overall for our new build. Most materials have gone up by way more but our labour and professional fees have been static. We just poured the slab yesterday. I'd be content in the fact that you have sold your property when prices are at an all time peak. We have yet to sell ours as building within the garden and am hopeful that the increase in value offsets the increase in the costs.

Your location can also play a massive part.i.e. London at one end of the cost scale and NI at the other end (thankfully)

+1 to @PeterW reply. the beam would behave perfectly well with a point support at the very ends. As the loads are very low (no structure or floors above) then the padstones/bearing are also very lightly loaded.

No idea on the 400mm padstone spec on that as I can’t see why it wasn’t just 7N blocks as the load is negligible. I would leave it and move on.

We completed our first self build two years ago for £815 m2 and had hoped that our next one would be und £1000m2 But it’s difficult to put a figure on it with what seems like daily price rices labour price increases don’t look like coming down anytime soon either

A much better way of dealing with the situation! And I agree with nod. I just wonder why specify 400mm.

At present material availability is irratic.

I think you need to weigh up the possible realistic worst case scenarios: i don’t think you need to worry about something actually failing, as it looks pretty secure and as others have pointed out here, it is unlikely to move anywhere. SEs often over-specify to cover themselves. So the most likely worst case scenario is that it fails building control. So I would just have a chat with your builder and say to him that as it’s not your area of expertise you hired an Se to design it and that you were therefore surprised he deviated from that design, but you don’t want to cause any unnecessary delays to his schedule, so you are okay with it as long as he is sure the BCO is okay with it and that you will be expecting him to fix it if the BCO raises any issues. That way, it is your Builder’s problem if the BCO raises it.

That isn’t going to go anywhere Theres very little weight above it Personally I think you will really piss your builder off if you ask him to alter it

Runs very quietly. Almost no noise from the unit outside. Fridge/freezer makes more noise inside.

To be clear its the surface area of the pad stone lying on the blockwork below that is important. A padstone crossing the cavity would be worse because there would be even less surface area on the blockwork walls below. The idea is to spread the load on to a wide enough surface area that the blockwork can cope.

I understand. It may have been that the pad stone are not available, I have had all sorts of problems with obtaining concrete items. I agree. If it was me I would be asking the Structural Engineer how important the 400mm length of the pads is. Especially as 300 is only 75% of the original length. After all you don't want him to fall out with the builder if a problem arises. Better to face it now rather than later... Good luck Marvin

One of the big issues with spray foam insulation is when you come to sell a property..... "Whilst contractors may push the benefits of spray foam, lenders will often insist that surveyors take a different view. Surveyors and valuers will often have to discount the value of a property or request a specialist report, because it has SPF insulation. It may even make a property unmortgageable in the eyes of a lender." https://sdlsurveying.co.uk/news/surveyors-blog-valuation-considerations-of-spray-foam-in-roofspaces/

More information for you Lawrence. https://www.mcandrewassociates.co.uk/post/padstones-what-are-they-and-how-are-they-used Think the 400 length of each padstone is important. Marvin

Air test today, had one done on the unfinished house to get an idea if anything was wrong before I start plaster boarding. Final test figure 0.28. Which I think is rather spiffing. I would like to thank my team. The wife for support and finance ralf and woody the wonder dogs,for guard duties and @Nickfromwales for the cakes and singing. .

Hello Moggaman. Working on the basis that your purlins are supported somewhere along the span? maybe a splice? below is part of a steel spec. "All steelwork is to be fabricated by a CE approved fabricator and comply with the BS EN 1090 series requirements. Site welding is not permitted. It is the Contractor's responsibility to check all steelwork dimensions prior to manufacture." "Shot blast to grade SA2.5 and painted with a zinc rich primer. Nominal DFT 80 microns." Shot blasting comes in varying degrees of "cleaning", SA2.5 is a common one for domestic applications. The primer spec gives your local fabricator a bit of play as to what they can use.. the tins of paint are actually drums of paint so they can "use up a drum" on your job. DFT means nominal dry film thickness.. in other words it looks like paint not just a sniff. It's worth doing as a matter of good practice and can help protect vulnerable parts like the welds and bolts / fixings. In summary, if your steel is in an indoor, heated and fully protected and non aggresive environment then strictly speaking no need for painting / treatments. If it is running over a bathroom and you may have moisture? Would I leave the steel raw on my own house? No. The primer can get rubbed a bit as it's quite soft so don't panic if you see a few bits scuffed off. Last thought, it often comes in two colours, red or grey if that matters?

I have found hedgehog fine, and have used the Hedgehog clips where necessary. These: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hedgehog-Gutter-Clips-Keeps-Brush/dp/B00FOTN35Q The only recent problem was that it needed so little attention that a clump of grass rooted in it. Sorted by glyphosate.

Apologies for the delay in posting the show notes, I've been a bit busy with self-building! This show was shown on More4 on 2 June 2021. Series 10 Episode 6 St Andrews The Self-builders: Ben (Baker with family firm) & Olwen. Son (Rory) & daughter (Mathilda – arrived during build in April 2018). Setting the Scene: Sept 2016 - Charlie visits to meet the self-builders & review site and plans Bought plot without planning permission at rear of family bakery business. Quoted cost is £100k + £60k for two garages to provide access. £350k build budget with £900k expected value. Bought £50k of wrongly sized Internorm windows for £4k. Modern four bedroom ecohouse with flat rubber roof. Charlie suggests eliminating kitchen island as dining area is too small. Master bedroom in mezzanine also needs to be closed off with balustrade and glass wall. The Build Sept 2016 – Drainage materials delivered to site. Work then stops due to challenges connecting to sewerage and water. Sept 2017 – Site ready for timber frame delivery. Looks like an MBC frame with 300mm double stud wall and air-tightness board. Nov 2017 – Timber frame erected. Fitting MVHR ducting. Feature wall glazing panels delivered & installed. Jan 2018 – Charlie revisits. £200k spent to date, about £10-15k over budget. The Visit to Another Self-build: Three bedroom home in Edinburgh built in 2012. Three storey copper tower. Polished concrete floor. Double height sitting room. The Build contd June 2018 – First fix underway. Zinc cladding being fitted. Aug 2018 – Plasterboarding nearly complete. Reclaimed Victorian brick cladding underway. Feb 2019 – Struggling to progress build with new baby. Steel staircase being fitted. Kitchen delivered for fitting – have retained island Charlie wanted removed. Some units damaged and/or incorrect – replaced after negotiation. Apr 2019 – Jura limestone tiles selected for bathrooms. Owners love the 150M year old fossils in them. May 2019 – Charlie visits. Master suite not finished and landscaping to be completed. The “final” figures: Actual build costs £340k to date with expected spend of £375-400k at completion. £1.4M expected final valuation (2019 prices).

Doesn’t it depend on the leaves as oak leaves seem to sit flat on the grids and form a waterproof lid around here.

The grids are better as leaves will blow off the top as opposed to get clogged in.

I fitted hedgehogs in some 125mm galvanised guttering and fixed with a bit of galvanised wire right around the gutter. As @SiBee -not impressed; took them all out. I think it's easier to clean your gutters out every now and then.

I had new square line gutters fitted to our house and asked the guys to fit gutter hedgehog brush as we always had issues with debris in the gutters. No special fixings used and they can be seen slightly proud of the gutter edge. After a couple a years we started getting overflow after heavy downpours. on inspection, the hedgehog brush was solid with moss and stuff growing in it!!! it looked like any silt fall out gathered rathered than washing away and this created a lovely growing matter for all things weedy. A length of clogged up gutter brush has some weight in it which does cause me some concern. I didnt count on a regular cleaning regime, I just presumed fit and forget and no more leaf build up. I hate heights and working up ladders. Before fitting the gutter brush I never had a problem with the gutters overflowing like a water fall. Would I fit them again? probably not and especially if I have to clean them anyway.

Grids or hedgehogs depends on what the problem is in your area. Both keep out leaves and mortar etc. but if there is a lot of airborne dust then hedgehogs tend to collect this and prevent it being washed along the gutter. Ideally hedgehogs sit quite high to allow wind to clear dried leaves etc.

Have you bought the hedgehog? I prefer the grids which go on top

Auction is July 20th - I've submitted a level 1 pre-app today on line. I did check first and they are responding to all paid applications so they will deal with it. What it doesn't tell me though (no doubt because they don't know) is when. I spoke to a planning consultant today and after a cursory look at the property details his best advice was to do the level 1 pre-app to at least get an 'in principal' response. Didn't sound like he had anyone he could call. I'd already got the Title and Title plan from the Registry. The original one was lost so it only records basic info and this: "The deeds and documents of title having been lost the land is subject to such restrictive covenants as may have been imposed thereon before 30 August 2017 and are still subsisting and capable of being enforced." There are fields on 3 sides of the property and the 4th side borders a 2 lane rural road. Checked the Land Registry in case the grass verge between the road and property boundary (1m ish) shows a title but nothing comes up. Property happens to be on a straight section of what I am assuming for the moment is unrestricted road with 180m before a bend one way and 400m before a bend the other way. Dry stone walls approx 1m high border the road and property. Haven't got to grips with the principals of visibility splays yet so I don't know whether that's acceptable or not. There's room on the property to alter the depth/splay of the entrance? We'll be off grid so not concerned about utilities although I'm quite sure there's an electricity supply to the property already. Doubt there are sewers tbh but there must be rainwater disposal. We need to go back and check these in more detail. Doubt it given its age but again, we'll check. Bats are entirely possible as the bldg has been open to the elements for some time. Newts also a possibility as some wet moorland and waterways in the proximity. Happy to accommodate both tbh. How would we find out? Would we need to get an environmental assessment done? Super useful info Temp, thank you

Highly unlikely they will accept an offer subject to survey or planning etc. Properties go to auction to save any hassle for the seller. Auction properties generally sell for less (although i have seen people pay well over the odds after getting auction fever) but the buyer takes a risk. Planning Consultant would (for a price) give you some pointers or an idea but not set in stone.