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I would be doing that in GRP with a Lead cloak flashing.

Well credit is due to you & Onoff of course joe, & PeterW- huge help. The wall behind bed's turned out great: alot of time on plastering/ filling, & time will tell if it introduces excessive cold.. but gives me a nice direct link back to the main house, & main room downstairs/ similar walls inside this, & some character: if it was lined, it'd be a 4 straight walled new cube. I think its just gotta stay as is.

Yes, search the forum for ecocent or exhaust air source heat pump, the general feeling is negative to them. Small heat pump, cylinder quality, Chinese manufacturing comes up a lot. It almost put me off using one, but glad we stayed true to the plans. Yes, if somebody is not going with underfloor heating and just need hot water they should be a consideration.

Sorry to be late to this discussion. As you know I have a PHE in parallel to my single Willis, and these are configured in a single loop with my UFH manfold feeds to 3 underfloor loops that are all ~100m. This is a closed system with its own 5L expansion. Can I first suggest that you discount scaling. Surely yours is also a closed system? In my case I've got maybe 40L of water in my system. Top up is manual and I haven't had to do this in ~2½ years of running; still at the 1 bar that I filled it to at commissioning. How much hardness is there in 40L of water? As I've discussed before I have a lot of temperature logging -- 12 digital thermostat sensors that I collect and log every 2 mins since commissioning. My pump is on a medium setting and the single Willis at this flow rate lifts the circulating temperature by roughly 7½ °C though this is mixed with the PHE bypass dropping the overall mixed to around +5°C. So last night the heating came on at around 3:02 AM with the return starting at around 22½°C with the out quickly climbing to 27½°C. This 3kW being dumped into the slab steadily lifted the return temperature to 25.7 °C at 06:38 when the heating was turned off. At each midnight my control system calculates the top up needed for the coming day based on the forecast average external temperature with an adjustment based on the 24hr average house temperature against setpoint. This ~3½ × 3 kWh was what it calculated as needed. Note that my (NodeRED) heating control turns the Willis off at 35°C as a safety limit (keeping the pump circulating) though IIRC the hottest out flow that that I've recorded was just over 31°C. I have my manifold TMV set at 40°C (mainly as a safety backstop) so the valve is in reality always open and any output from the willis is always dumped into the slab. I note that you don't seem to implement any temperature control on your Willis outputs, yet have your TMV set at 35°C. So what happens if your loops cross this threshold? The mixer will start bypassing the UFH loops and now the output from the Willis is on a short closed cycle isolated from the circulating pump and with no heat dump and so you are heating maybe 3L of water with 6kW. No wonder it starts to kettle! IMO, the thermostat cutout on both Willis heaters should be set to a maximum of 35°C (or as in my case I have them in-built Willis sensors at minimum and I use a digital thermostat on the Willis casing for on-off control) and at least say 5°C less than the manifold TMV to ensure that you never short cycle through the Willis heaters. You can't dump 6kW × 24hrs into slab without seriously stressing something. You have to validate your design and assumptions during commissioning otherwise you risk permanent damage. At least with a TMW set at 35°C any damage will be in above ground replaceable components. PS. Adding extra short circuits is only going to make things worse.

Tell your wife to wait.

Time over time, I read on here that ASHPs are no good for old houses. Can we stop this nonsense. ASHPs, or any heating system, if it has a too lower power output, will struggle. That is what power means. So rather than say an ASHP will struggle, or is the wrong thing to install, tell the true story. The true story is that it may be cheaper overall to install a gas or oil boiler, or a much larger, or even two, ASHPs. And could everyone stop getting temperature, energy and power confused, they are different thing.

Hi all, I'm so glad I've stumbled across this forum. I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and it's been invaluable. We're very early in our adventure and are still looking for a plot - focusing on Surrey and Kent around the M25 border; basically within a decent commute of central London. We're hoping to get about 0.3 of an acre and, having lived in London Zone 2 for a while now my partner is very keen on actually having some greenery around us. Spoken to a couple of land owners but haven't progressed to actually buying anything yet. Got a fairly solid idea of what we want our new home to look like (both externally and in terms of layout etc.) and importantly what we can afford! My partner and I have zero experience in the building game, but my father used to run a small family construction business so we've got someone to get advice from at least. Looking forward to seeing all the other wonderful projects on here as well. Thanks,

TBH on a new house that is well insulated your RHI payments are never going to cover the premium so it’s easier to go the non-MCS route.

Wot he said ..!! Two layers of 9mm OSB on the base/slope and one layer screwed and bonded to the wall to make the channel. 45 degree fillet in the bottom of the channel and laid up with at least two layers of 450gm CSM, same as a GRP roof. Then cut and fold a lead flashing over the top edge of the wall side to finish.

that sounds good. Do note though some of the earlier comments in this thread that once the RHI for solar stopped the price reduced hugely. So, unless your timing works out it may not be a problem. We are DIY builders and haven't started yet, so won't be getting ours for a couple of years, so I'm going to have to hope the price will reduce.

Sporty! Highly ambitious too I’d say. ?

Yes yes ok- but 1st time Ive done alot of this, never had sore feet (do again now- so defo the room, cant be ceiling, gotta be floor > carpet like t'other > so > it can only be the cumulus bollocus).. & if if fitter said no can do, Id be looking at £250 min: & that aint no molehill on what I earn. Thanks, turned out a fantastic room/ space, views. be nice if it was warm mind.. CH got new error code/ heating not working. ffs.

I believe if you don't have planning to demolish then they can make you rebuild to the original design. However unless you're in a conservation area or the property is listed then hard to see why they'd refuse.

Thanks chaps. I just have just locked & loaded my pulse driver with a fresh battery and going outside.

Give it a couple of weeks and see if the situation improves before you pay out to have it changed.

It is a fireplace not a garage door opening, the brick work looks OK so just remove things carefully and away you go. I have skim read this post, I am not actually really sure what you are trying to do, are you trying to widen the fireplace to get a stove in or such? I think you want to remove the first few corbelled bricks, in which case I would either, simply remove them all carefully, or prop the row 2 up, and remove the courses you want, then fit an angle iron lintel type affair. If I was doing it I would have probably put in 3 lintels, on 2 running back to front, then the main one running across. However, heavy angle steel is your friend! This is a mornings work with a couple of cups of tea.

But there is no explosion risk because the stored water cannot boil. That is the reason for the annual services for unvented.

You are just being pedantic you know what it means ?

That's an interesting one. With a large tank and a low power ASHP that could take 2 hours, I don't want to be paying a plumber 2 hours labour to sit and wait. That is something I can check myself just by watching it as it heats up on any day and ensuring it does turn off at the set temperature. And something I would expect a friendly plumber to accept I have self tested.

Does it need an expansion vessel? Agree that UVC are useful for limited flow showers. But probably not cheaper than vented and a 100 quid pump.

I think even water at 97°C can do some damage. Even at 70°C it can kill you.

Issue with a single storey vented system (like for @Jilly ) is the water pressure is determined by the height of the header tank above the cylinder. And this will be low ..! UVC gives mains hot water with no tanks, a combined thermal store can do similar but needs higher temperatures to store the water.

Here, most significantly an annual service requirement by the look of it. But, does that annual service requirement exist in the scenario that there is no resistive heater and only an R290 ASHP? I can’t see what risk there would be.

Wow! Looks impressive. ? Dusting will be challenging ? So probably noting hanging that collects dust and cobwebs? how about concealed led strip lights?

This problem can be tackled another way: looking at components needed. So a simple vented system has a cylinder, an immersion heater (or 2), a feed and expansion tank, a ballcock valve, couple of isolator valves. What does a unvented system have?

Drain all the hot water from the tank until it’s cold. Start up the heating system and check the temperature cut out operates correctly.

No, but it was like a plastic bag (this was 40 years ago ?).

But it didn't. I think they may make them out of a plastic that has a deformation temperature higher than 100°C now. Old galvanised tanks did not have this problem,

Basically shut off the incoming water, let the pressure off the HW system. Check the air pressure in the bladder in the expansion vessel (also checking for water leaks) Re pressurise. Check operation of over temp and over pressure blow off valves. Check water drains freely through tundish to outside vent point, check that is clear and accessible. Run the heating system, check operation of things like the cylinder thermostat and make sure it shuts off the motorised valves etc. There might be a few things I have forgotten.

As a slight “aside” what checks are done on a g3 installation annually?

that happened to me many years ago, plastic header tank was about to let go and flood the house. The tank was a funny shape after that. Only noticed it as I heard boiling water sounds from the airing cupboard when walking past.

Slip you what?

@Mr PunterPunter yup. 13.5%

The biggest risk of overheating an UVC is an immersion heater with a failed thermostat (which is why they now have a secondary safety cut out as well) but that risk is not unique to UVC's. Secondary thermostats were mandated after the case of a vented cylinder that had boiled, the venting boiling water had melted the plastic header tank, which ruptured, pouring scalding hot water on a child in a bed in the room below. UVC's have over temperature and over pressure relief valves to protect from over temp and pressure damage, and the control system should be designed to cut off the heat source if it gets too hot. You are supposed to have a UVC checked annually to ensure these all work.

One thing that springs to mine with unvented. The risk arises from a depressurization scenario, where the cylinder temperature is over 100*C. Say a fault has resulted in a stored water temp of 120*C at some elevated static pressure. Should the pressure be released, the water will boil and hence expand something like 1600x as steam. This obviously causes an explosion risk. However, an R290 ASHP simply cannot produce water temperatures above 100*C. One because there are multiple protection mechanisms but secondly because it has a critical temperature of 97*C. So there doesn't exist the same risk provided there is no backup heating element as far as I can see.

Not sure if this has appeared here before but for some reason youtube recommended this vid showing a Belgian "lego" like SIP system. Looks interesting if you want to literally build your own house. Home page.. https://gablok.be/en/

Can I jump in .... as this thread is about minimal cost hot water systems.... due to living on an island it’s cost prohibitive to get someone in to inspect an expansion vessel on a yearly basis, the cottage that i want to put hot water in is empty at the moment without any plumbing. I wanted to put in an ASHP for UFH and DHW. The building has open vaulted ceilings...... there may be one place to squeeze in a roof tank but it would be within the warm envelope of the house. In this situation what would be my best option. @Jilly i expect we are in similar situation with a very tight budget .... so I am interested in your solution but I expect you have access to G3 inspection much cheeper than me.

I Googled "box parapet gutter section". Then clicked on "Images". Got a lot more section details than "abutment gutter section", tbh very similar. (Instead of a parapet you have a gable end). Main things seems to be having a fall created by packers. The flashing needs to go up the wall by 150mm then tuck in an angled slit. Interesting some use a sheet of EPDM instead of lead. https://www.google.com/search?q=box+parapet+gutter+section&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwia5LfytYvtAhVBYxoKHWDjDv4Q2-cCegQIABAC&oq=box+parapet+gutter+section&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzoECCMQJzoECAAQQzoCCAA6BggAEAcQHjoECAAQDToECB4QClDnzQFY7v8BYP-HAmgAcAB4AIABtAGIAbcXkgEEMC4yMJgBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=KLm0X5qwLcHGaeDGu_AP&bih=512&biw=360&client=ms-android-motorola&prmd=isvn Interesting comment here ref the exit, how the front edge projects and is always lower than the sides: https://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/rainwater/rainwater.htm

I'm putting wall hung toilets in. With the down stairs toilet I'm going to build the stud out to hide the frame and SVP, ill run a horizontal pipe across from the toilet to drop into the SVP much like you propose her. With this being a ground floor shower, bot sure how you'd tie that in, a low profile trap but then getting the fall. If you go for a deeper slab could you put a bit of formwork in to keep it clear of concrete?

And a thread where we should give a wide spectrum of information with the various pros / cons / caveats If someone is going to buy an UVC then we can advise on the best place to put it, and explain why. But, yes, cheap DHW would be an electric shower and a small multipoint, but when you add up all the electrics and the fact that an electric shower is a pile of shit on a good day, an UVC makes sense. Do the sums is my 2-Penney’s worth

Make sure the cables are on the surface of the insulation slab, i.e between the insulation and the PB. It is only cables IN insulation that have to be derated, not cables ON insulation.

Welcome, I'm in Berkshire M4 J8/9 so pretty representative of the type of area you're looking in. We (and many others here) bought a tired existing house and demolished it to rebuild. Land is very rare and if you find it and can afford it, ask why no-one has developed it yet for love or profit. If you buy and demolish, you will have all services and access established (can cost you many tens of thousands to get to a green site). You will also qualify for the same zero VAT self build scheme. Very likely to get planning (unless its in a conservation zone, listed etc, in which case look for something else). You are paying for a building to flatten which can be a bit mind bending and you need to get a self build mge or use your own funds for the actual build as no lender will countenance this (ask me how I know ). However you can still buy with a standard mge initially and live in it while you develop and get approval for plans so a standard 2 year mge commitment is fine, just don't do a 5 year fix like I do and then try and wriggle out of it without a redemption penalty.

That would be ok or @nod's suggestion. You can also cast your own padstone either in situ or make your own mould. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03n6tt8 Edit: Sorry its telling me the clip isn't available.

I use a very basic 200lt vented cylinder with two immersion heaters. The E7 at the bottom and the booster one from the top. Simple pipework, one up to the feed and expansion tank in the loft, one down from there to the bottom of the cylinder, and another off the top of it for hot water (which also has the expansion/safety pipe that runs up to above the F&E tank. I fitted a simple electric twin impeller shower pump that needed a pipe from the F&E for the cold side. Simple, very cheap, reliable and once I had insulated the airing cupboard, not mush in the way of thermal losses. You can get this kind of combined cylinder and heat pump. https://www.earthsaveproducts.com/products/ecocent But look on Alibaba as the units are bought in from China. There is also a Sunamp if space is very tight. Or even an inline electric water heater, as you have no gas. You say space is tight, do you have space outside?

Electric Combi are the devils work... If you are going DHW via an immersion driven tank then don't bother with an electric shower. Just upsize the tank, and use E7 to give you a decent amount of hot water. Factor in about 80litres of tank capacity at 60c per shower and its not far off. Very little difference with a 210 to a 250 litre tank too

Try Google yourself for a change why don't you? I typed in "quarter moulding". 'Kin amazing resource, wish I'd found it years ago! https://www.google.com/search?q=quarter+moulding&oq=quarter+moulding&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30l7.6240j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I have written a number of articles about adapting a house to be more suitable for use by people who are frail, older or disabled. This is a list so that anyone interested (or not interested) can find them slightly more easily. Converting a Downstairs Bathroom into an Accessible Shower Room Cost for this was just over £2k, including about £1k for the Fitter Labour and £250 for a shower seat and grab rails etc. A full replacement would have cost about £2500, with perhaps £1250-£1500 of materials. For a DIY version it would have cost £1200-£1500. A detailed set of 6 articles about my downstairs bathroom being made into a shower room: Accessible Ablutions - Strip OUt Accessible Ablutions 2 - Ducts for the Future Accessible Ablutions 3 - Half Way Photos Accessible Ablutions 4 - Finished Photos Accessible Ablutions 5 - 3d Printing Accessible Ablutions 6 - Costs and Components Project Discussion thread: Recommendations for Bathrooms for Elderly / Disabled A forum post where I reflect a little after some time of using the new shower room. Adding a Bath to the a large upstairs shower room Before and after articles with 3-d model, finished video, and debate leading to design changes: Bathroom Refurbishment Project (1) - Comments Please Bathroom Refurbishment Project (2) - Proposed Design Bathroom Refurbishment Project Finished More will be added as and when. The next projects are a further bathroom refurbishment upstairs and an accessibility ramp on the front path.

Yes, in fact I built several, all different iterations of the design! The main reason for that one was to easily show people how the house would look in it's setting. I found that a lot of people, particularly some of the neighbours and most of the Parish Council planning committee, were unable to visualise what something would look like from just 2D plans. Because one of the people that was unable to imagine what spaces would be like from plans was my other half, I also made this model, with a lift off roof and first floor, so she could see the scale of the internal rooms. I made this model to a larger scale, 1:50, simply because you can buy cheap plastic models of people at 1:50 that are intended for railway modellers, so I could add people inside the house to get a better idea of the true scale.