Nickfromwales

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Nickfromwales last won the day on July 17

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About Nickfromwales

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  • About Me
    http://forum.buildhub.org.uk/ipb/index.php?/topic/38-hello-from-the-resident-welsh-plumber/

    I am, in relation to my business, currently offering the following services to the public.
    Site survey.
    System design.
    Consultation.
    Products / equipment procurement.
    1st fix installation.
    Commissioning.
    Gas / oil / LPG / SunAmp.
    Solar PV & Solar thermal.
    Heat pumps and geothermal.
    Controls.
    Whole of house wiring.

    Please PM me for further information about these services, or for general information just post a new thread here on Buildhub for free, impartial advice. :)
    Regards, nick.
  • Location
    South Wales.

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  1. Ok, as this has hit the mother of all digressions, ive added my two-penneth here ; Please be so kind as to continue the battery chat there please and leave this thread to the FiT and export discussions. Thanks. The management.
  2. Nickfromwales

    Variable Solar Storage with Batteries

    Ok. Picking up from the digression here; and the interesting but not yet fully discussed installations / implementations here; I feel it would now her a good time to chew the fat on exactly how 'plug n play' these battery systems actually are. Jeremy makes his point about suitability / economy based on convenience as much as fortification of consumption / offsetting import / smoothing peaks and troughs as it were, but I kinda feel that his core motive is for backup power for his ( quote ) frequent grid 'power cuts'. Sorry to pick on you again Jeremy but you make some important comments here afaic when considering buying a battery system. I just don't feel there was enough emphasis on the reasons for the promotion of it. My first glance understanding was it simply plugged into the main CU just like the solar PV does, but then I ask myself about current capacity limitations; when the house is at full wallop, eg induction hob going full blazes, the two ovens doing Sundays mixed game, the EV is plugged in filling its battery based belly, washer and TD are whizzing around etc etc and the grid dies aka a power cut. Simple for the PV, the inverter just switches off, likewise I think I read for the grid tied battery side. So no grid, then no PV then no battery? One assumes if all the loads that were running whilst the grid died are still present, then where does the juice come from to sustain or reinstate power ( albeit temporarily )? If 10-15kW of electricity was being consumed as the grid died, would the system not have to be able to match and sustain that ( eg be sized accordingly ) for the system to be perceived as a "battery back-up"? I know its not sold or described as one, but it has been talked about and I feel there may be some disillusions for anyone reading that may leave them with the wrong understanding of what these systems are actually able to offer 'out of the box'. So, my question(s) is about current capacity and load switching / shifting, for the want of a better phrase. Read on, I shall try and use my words more betterly. When the grid is up and the batteries are getting juice from wherever, it has the ability to lend itself to offset grid consumption to the property, giving what it can to the dwelling until depleted. That cycle goes on accordingly in a normal 24 period of charge ( assume PV ) and discharge ( offsetting grid consumption until 'flat' ). Happy days. This is what I'm going to refer to as generic, off-the-shelf, use. Now, lets look at the other ( possible ) side of battery use, as in an understanding of the above utilisation but with the requisite that the system will frequently have to deal with grid power outages and has been purchased with a desire to mitigate against this eventuality. ( Lets remember folks, anyone in very adverse powers failure zones could simply buy one of these and just charge it directly off the grid, eg NO PV, as an alternative to a generator ). Its here I think the creases could do with a bit of ironing. So, you get a power cut as the grid just died for whatever reason. Now, the games half cooked, washer hasn't finished cycle, cars still wanting another couple of kW to fill its belly, and the kids run around screaming that the wifi's gone off aka the 4 horsemen have arrived. Nowt. Your sat in the dark, batteries charged but going nowhere as their inverter, like the PV one, has been told to go nite nite as the grid tie has been lost. So, accepting the game will spoil, and the sprouts will have to be a lot crunchier than usual, you go looking for the torch. Why you cry, as you have some expensive batteries that you should be benefiting from, shouldn't you? Simple; a) if looking at this retrospectively, you'll have a generic electrical wiring system in your house and the battery system cannot support everything thats connected to your CU. If it did get connected to the CU the battery system MCB ( trip switch ) would go past its rated capacity and just trip out as; b) you bought a battery storage system NOT an UPS ( uninterruptible power supply ). So, back to Jeremys point about the two sets of outputs. One is grid tied and is hard wired into the house CU, ( CU1 ), and then you have the second outlet which essentially could just be made off to standard 13A double socket labelled "failure power". Now you have choices as to how to best utilise the second outlet, which is live during a power cut but is typically not connected to anything. So unless you have bought a bank of these things, sized to exceed the maximum current usage of the dwelling, you cannot just 'changeover' fully from grid to battery with the flick of a switch ( or by automation ) as the aforementioned systems just don't have the capacity to do so. Rough maths : the 9.6kW setup would run a standard electric shower for an hour or so for eg. If I get what Jeremy is proposing to do in his house, if he goes for such a system, it would indeed be a type of changeover arrangement. A second CU, ( CU2 ), which has the 'essentials' supplied from it and is separated from the mains supply CU1 tails by a changeover switch ( manual or automated ) that selects either "grid" or "battery". Most importantly though is it would ensure that the battery system cannot ever connect to CU1 during power failure. What you would then need to do is to be mindful that CU2 does not have the ability to exceed the MCB rating of the battery system second outlet, or it will trip out on over-current. So, afaic, the above essentials would typically be lights, fridge and freezer, internet / wifi and maybe a single 13a socket that you can plug an extension lead into in desperation ( PC / laptop charger for eg so you can continue working from home ). Heating and hot water I would class as non essential, and trying to suggest you use the power reserves stopping your freezer from defrosting to keep the house warm is bonkers. Buy a "grid has gone down" jumper So this is really to stop any thoughts about cheekily being able to just pop the battery power on and carry on as normal until the battery goes flat or the grid electricity comes back on. Not going to happen unless you've spent about £12k on 3x 9.6kW systems or the equivalent ( again rough maths ). The other thing I wanted to highlight is that the cost of the system is one thing, if its for a generic plug n play install. The cost of using it for a bit of failsafe against grid failure is another. The scale goes from just a socket on outlet 2 of the battery system and you just go plug an extension lead in for the fridge / freezer, all the way up to Jeremys far better option where there is just the flick of a switch and its all taken care of. Anyone who's considering a battery system should NOW put some serious thought into gleaning these 'essential' circuits back to said CU2 and just linking the tails together for now. Not much cost or complexity now, during the planning phase, but a lot messier and less practical after the event as, for eg, if you, retrospectively, migrate the fridge freezer onto CU2 then that likely means you've had to just move the entire kitchen ring across so everything not needed under power fail would need switching off manually to preserve stored power. Vampire loads would be a serious problem for a smaller battery system so a bit of thought now could see you getting good results, sustain of essentials, without having to provision for a bigger system. Now for the killer; Folk also need to remember that if they have PV that is already near matching or even failing to match their current level of consumption, then there will no be little or no PV left over to charge the battery system, eg if your space heating and DHW is already all electric ( SA / willis heaters / ASHP ) then battery tech may need a proper look at to see how exactly you'll charge it. Your hot tank will grab a bit of grid electricity if PV hasn't cut the mustard, but will your battery system also have to keep doing so to stay at its peak charge / discharge capacity / duty. For sure you'll be able to discharge the suggested systems, at those capacity ratings, but be sure you can fully charge it again or you'll hugely reduce the lifespan of the system by abusing it. For those looking to buy and just plug it in, the price seems tempting to say the least, but for anything else its time to look again at the peripherals and triple check the maths, more so with the bigger system which will need longer to properly recharge. The smaller system seems to be the safe position, or look to bump that up alongside upping your PV array if battery storage really means that much to you. Ok, boffins, have at me!
  3. Nickfromwales

    Not good

    Jesus. Time for a chat or a 12 pack of LE foam.
  4. Nickfromwales

    Hardie backer board / ditra

    How much for an 8x4 and what thickness for the marine. If not huge areas then I supposed better to go belt n braces, but ive never done that as I tank the shit out of wet rooms anyway.
  5. This was the first thing that popped into my head tbh. What does BR say about its suitability eg odds / mitigation of fire hazard etc? Double firecheck PB'ing in a plant room if within the dwelling with fire / smoke detectors etc? I see these / others ( in online marketing ) shown as fitted inside, is this permissible for UK BR?
  6. Nickfromwales

    The Build - Insulation ahead of 1st Fix - UPDATE

    Absolutely. Thats the reason I reside here. The fact that folk share experiences is utterly priceless and thats what helps others to refine their choices. I scour eBay daily for a second hand crystal ball, but alas the unicorn lady seems to snap them up before I can get a bid in.
  7. Nickfromwales

    The Build - Insulation ahead of 1st Fix - UPDATE

    Oh, and all the photos of the pipes / timbers / intersections will be invaluable for the ongoing trades. Top idea.
  8. Nickfromwales

    The Build - Insulation ahead of 1st Fix - UPDATE

    It heats up a lot quicker so is more able to match timed heating events. With 22mm of P5 over them, then 6mm ply, then tiles and adhesive there was no problem with the heat output at all. Only complaint I got was it worked too well so I dropped the flow temp down a bit. £175 for 40 plates here. So £4,850 in total to use pug mix. I think plates would have paid for a holiday ! Wowzers. Oh well, think of all that lovely thermal mass youve gained More pics as you progress please
  9. Nickfromwales

    Tiling...many questions

    No masking, water, or fence. Just more almonds Dusty, yes.
  10. Nickfromwales

    Hardie backer board / ditra

    Marine ply most would shout, but just wbp for me.
  11. Nickfromwales

    Cistern help please

    It all comes out. That's the design. Have a single voddy and then revisit it.
  12. Nickfromwales

    The Build - Insulation ahead of 1st Fix - UPDATE

    I still don't see the attraction of the pug mix for UFH when spreader plates are so quick and simple. And not a bucket or cement mixer in sight. Plates, pipes and boarded in a day and a half. Agree though, neat job and a good clean workplace. What's the intended floor covering over the pug mix?
  13. Nickfromwales

    Cistern help please

    Take pics for what came from where. The main flush assembly quarter turns like changing a lightbulb.
  14. Nickfromwales

    Hardie backer board / ditra

    No need for decoupling then IMO as the last floor I did over PJ at 600c was around 35m2. That was 22mm P5 ( D4 glued and screwed x5 per joist run, 2" No.10 screws ), 6mm ply glued and screwed at 120mm centres ( that needs to be observed religiously ), tile adhesive and 600x600 porcelain on top. Not a squeak and it also had wet UFH in spreader plates so goes through heat / cool cycles too. I know the dicks who fitted the joists too, so I doubt any strong backs went in or the joists were fitted properly either.