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They should go back via MCS complaints procedure and get a full refund. EVERY SINGLE INSTALL that my PV partners have done for my M&E clients projects have either met OR EXCEEDED the stated return / revenue / break even point WITHOUT EXCEPTION. The above installers must be sharks, end of. MCS software categorically cannot be exaggerated and the contents are factual. These people should have had such documentation before spending a single penny, the content of which is very easy to read and completely digestible on any level. Simple maths demonstrated over several pages. Our surveys assume 17p/kWh in this software vs the actual of ~35p/kWh so has a 50% redundancy in that provision alone. Very out of touch perspective vs what we do every week. Not good advice at all, and nor is it factual. Cheap DIY installs will not be MCS so you CANNOT get SEG payments so would extend the payback not shorten it. Also allows cart Blanche for poor installations, incorrect shading surveys / mitigation etc. Nay-sayers from 3-4 years back are now coming back on all 4’s asking for us to fit them in at the ‘then’ price. Guess what they now deeply regret not doing……? Some real nonsense being spouted here sorry. I would strongly advise anyone interested to get a FULL AND PROPER MCS survey carried out, which should be free of charge ( it is with us ) which will give them a price, kWh per month and annual generation summary, and the year they break even on the investment. Anyone who is unhappy after getting that done, who still went ahead with it, is a cock. Simples. Sone of our current proposals are showing anywhere between £400 - £800 p/a RoI. 3 decade warrantied systems showing breakeven in year 13-15, most recent one is sub 10 year breakeven. This is a non-commercial POV stating honest, genuine facts, and does not endorse any one company or product. I’ll see if I can post some numbers from recent proposals, bear with, beyond flat out atm. In 10 years time, the nay-sayers will be in floods of tears as they shout at anyone who leaves a light on or a device plugged in. Watch this space

I've often felt like pointing that out but backed off to avoid an argument 🙄.

In terms of ROI; All electric here, installed 14 panels May'21 5kWp panels, 3.68kWp inverter, goods cost around £3.5k (self installed) that should have been less but I changed my mind and bought a second inverter and haven't got round to flogging the first one. They've generated: 4.66MWh I've exported (for free): 692.35kWh at our old rate of 23p per kWh during the day that's roughly £1070 generated and £159 given back to the grid. I've 'saved' £911. Slightly less than 4 years payback. Given electricity is now 30p per kWh and heading up, I really ought to get on with the other two phases. Although I'd just end up exporting loads for nothing in the summer it'd help somewhat in winter!

Plans and drawings for planning permissions are straight forward enough. You can look at what others have submitted in the local area to get an idea of what they should look like and contain. Structural plans and building control details require more background knowledge.

well, I don't think anyone is suggesting to not have any switches so if you lose your phone you can just use the switch. but in a truly automated house you shouldn't 'need' the switch but it's there in case you do.

I think you are out by a factor of 10, so maybe you meant per square metre?

I just remembered a few years ago friends came to stay over new year and after a few too many, during the night , a lady guest went to the bathroom and not wanting to disturb others left the light off, forgot where the loo was and burnt her bum on the electric radiator. ( I have since changed the element to a lower wattage) . A visit to the freezer to get a pack of cold peas to soothe the burn but didn’t realise the pack was open so spent time picking frozen peas from the bedclothes. A year to remember.

Small update on my FCU install: yesterday I finished installing one of the bedroom ducted plenums and grills. It was a pig of a job to do. Wish I'd done it during the build rather than thinking "oh that will be easy to retrofit". But I'm pleased with the result. Just 3 more to go!! This one: https://www.ventilationland.co.uk/product/35035/slot-diffuser-with-3-adjustable-slots-of-1000-mm.html - along with the plenum, costs more than the FCU 🙄

I agree, but the sums of cash required if you dont know what you are doing, or can do it yourself , are eye watering.

It’s the way to go !

Im with Onoff. Tech stuff. I love it, but dont have a clue unfortunately.

I was, 100%, genuinely about to commit a few grand to PV but didn't know where to start.

I'd never even considered presence detectors in terms of payback time. I got them to do automation, including automated lights coming on (including low level markers at night), manage audio, set the blinds to reduce glare on the computer screen when I'm in the office, and such like. The fact it can turn off lights and appliances and save money is a bonus. Then, half the motion sensors were there anyway (security system) and the higher sensitivity ones were only £7 each (plus a Loxone DI extension which was £10 per channel) so a completely fine outlay in my book. But heck each to their own, I'm definitely not here to push my lifestyle choices on others. But on that point I'm generally very active and not getting obese, and turning off a light switch would not constitute a meaningful workout for me if I was.

Sorcery!

Automation in my opinion should be something that largely ‘ just happens ‘ . Lights come on / blinds open etc .

Had a go at making it but not really getting anywhere. I guessed at a 500 Ohm source impedance for the zinc/copper ground spikes but the ones I made came in at five times as much. With such a high impedance the capacitor doesn't charge up enough to turn on the transistor bases (>0.6V). The collector resistors bleed off too much current. It works fine with an AA battery though - but defeats the object of using the bimetallic battery principle. If I had some very low threshold mosfet transistors that could possibly work but my lowest Vgs devices are all over 1V.

Nothing about my system is that unique apart from I made my own solar PV diverter. A commercially installed system with a commercial PV diverter, and a little education for the users to time shift use of big appliances to the middle of the day should achieve similar results.

Ah, no, in roof trays that accept PV panels so you only slate around the panels. Example https://www.deegesolar.co.uk/integrated_solar_panels/

In the 3 or more years mine has been running, I have exported just 310kWh, so good has been my self usage. Even if I was able to claim the pittance of 5.5p dumb export payment, I would have received £17.05 Just imagine how much extra an MCS install would cost Vs DIY, and then tell me the payback time of that extra cost of the install when that is all I would get, less than £10 per year.

How far do you need to extend it, if only a couple of metres then forget mdpe as you have to buy a 25m coil. Just go and get a 3m length of hep pipe and a straight connector and a hep washing machine tap. Will save you loads of cash and it’s all available from toolstation.

Diy? Yes of course you can, if you have the skills and knowledge. Do you? How do you know that you do? Green roof etc. I have "green credentials" but never used a green roof where i had control. I would be telling the planners that you had considered it but discounted it on terms of....whatever. In my cases it was usually on the grounds of cradle to grave not actually being justifiable....or maintenace,...or safety. Fundamentally it requires a lot of extra structure, and after it has grown it doesn't reduce carbon. Trees are good. Shade in summer. But not the big varieties or the founds have to be deeper.

@Jilly I drew my own house and pod plans for my new build in Scotland. I did get a site plan drawn as it was around £90 and will double up for de-crofting the house plot. I've some experience with cad and in the building trade. But it's definitely doable. I paid around £350 for a package and just got on with it. Took some trial and error bit I was happy with the result and more importantly then obtained planning consent. And we're used for some of the building control. (In Scotland you need a certificate of design, some were drawn by the structural Eng. I'm sure I saved a fortune.

Father in law is a retired civil engineer, just started his own extension, I was doing the CAD work for him but he realised I was too busy and went to the art shop and got a set of pens and pencils and dusted off his drawing board. A total work of art, beautiful plans. Just another option! Downsides, all I can say is it depends on your knowledge and skills pertaining to designing a building. 8K seems very very steep for an 18m² extension though... what are you getting for that?

In roof installation saving cost of tiles/slates,!!

Yup. Over 6000 MCS reg companies whilst the putrid FiT scheme was in full swing. Dwindled to a few 1000, and then when FiT went it’s now a few hundred. Just shows how grotesque a scheme it was, filling the pockets of rogue installers where they’d just siphon off the subsidy element of the cost of the system. The public couldn’t give two hoots because most are going on government paid holidays each year from the income. WTF!?!?!? First time buyers or family’s on low income get the 2 finger salute. Then there’s the failed RHI scheme. £20m left in the pot which has now migrated to the Green home grant or something. Other than the residual Green grant, all it predecessors were just utter nonsense and a ridiculous waste of public money. A mechanism for wealthier folk to become even wealthier for doing the square root of fcuk all. Spoke to people last weekend who were getting £1600 p/a ( and guaranteed for the next 15+ years iirc ) and loads of free electricity to boot, who wanted to know if they could ‘improve’ their returns………… Government driven lunacy.

I do one or two sites per year for a smallish family firm They brought specialists in to fit PV on four new build cottages They where up on The roof laptop open following a YouTube video Lots of cowboys out there

No different stuff. Use the excess DPM for covering sand etc to stop it blowing away or wood to stop it getting damp while waiting to be installed.

+1, but I would have sleeved ( ducted ) the pipes as it’s a cavity.

Exactly. I think a lot of people don't realise how flexible home automation can be. For example, I have lights in some rooms set so that they behave differently after dusk (the HA system tracks the changing dusk time). If I'm turning the lights in the bedroom on during the day, it's generally because I need a lot of light. At night, the same switch just turns on the bedside table lights, because I almost never need/want downlights on at 10 or 11 pm (but can put them on with about 10 seconds' effort on the phone if needed). Even in the small number of rooms with just downlights, many are set so that the downlights come on at ~60% at night and 90-100% during the day. I personally don't have any lights set to come on automatically as a result of motion within a room. If I did use motion/presence sensors, I'd be more likely to set them so the lights still need to be turned on at the switch, but automatically turn off after some period of inactivity in the room.

so you configure the system so that after a certain time when you enter the bathroom the lights at a low level come on dimmed. no need to pee in the dark!

the price of Solar PV has definitely gone up in the last year or so. we paid £10k for a 10.5kWp array with optimisers installed. I'm starting to think we got an absolute bargain!

With a heck of a lot more to come. Ultimately my recent 100% uplift of my standing charge will very likely go up by 100% again to further compensate for the grotesque amounts of public-generated revenue that shareholders have greedily siphoned off as income. Now that pot is running dry it comes out of our pockets again for the HUGE grid fortifications / improvements that are required for this mystical electric future. Privatisation at its (expletive deleted)ing finest. Ffs.

When ICE cars started, one sent the Butler to the chemist to get a can of gasoline. It is really early days in this journey, and by highlighting the problems now, there is more chance that it will be done right.

This was always going to be a challenge but I wonder how this fits with self generated power you may want to put into your EV during the summer days!

To get the flexi pipes to my ASHP I core drilled 2 x 80mm holes and used pipe insulation with 75mm OD from the unit right through to the inside and sealed to the plaster skin with flexible silicone.

I agree Joe. Bit fat trowel full of plaster, and start at the bottom of the wall ! I always judge a plasterer as being a good one when he hits the wall at about 600mm up from the floor, and works down. No fat lazy edge at the bottom. (Which usually looks crap)

The crux of that is how does the automation know what you want? e.g walk into the bathroom, have a pee, flush and walk out. Walk into the bathroom, sit on the pot and open your book. Walk into the bathroom undress and get into the shower. All 3 very different situations. show me a sensor that can 100% detect which of those 3 you are doing and operate the lights and fan accordingly?

You can get DIY kits far cheaper than that, I did not put PV on my build but am considering it now prices are rising as I can shift my DHW and slab heating to midday (when it should be sunny) with a timer on my ASHP. I also believe batteries are not there yet cost wise. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325162613134?hash=item4bb533b98e:g:tZoAAOSwiwZcG6G6

The numbers don’t stack up The projective saving on our previous build was £200-300 per year This time the enthusiastic sap designer has stated that it could be as much as £500 per year It is a gimmick We prefer to spend the money on extra insulation Our friends have recently finished there third self build First being in the 80s They where talked into PV Whilst I wouldn’t go as far as saying they regret there decision They admit that savings where exaggerated and will never see a return in there lifetime In saying that PV is good for the environment I will continue separate plastics and tins before chucking them in the bin

I had this mindset a year ago, I wish I hadn't as it definitely is worthwhile and much quicker payback than you think.

I’d never send out a dwg… I don’t think you have an automatic right to it. I draw in 3D and there’s lots of ‘stuff you can’t have’ in there. Not only is it intellectual property (not just mine), it’s also probably wrong and will cause me grief down the line. I have found though, putting the flat pdf into cad is a lot of effort. CAD doesn’t flatten or purge things in a friendly way. I’ve spent hours converting drawings and it feels like cutting your nose off to spite your face. It’s easier if you just import the pdf into cad yourself. I think if you’re a CAD user you should be able to do that?

Big kisses 😘 back to you . More technology. More complexity. More issues ! . Distractions from finishing the build !!! 😂

All Renewable Energy Ltd They are in Perth but cover Fife and will sort you out with pump and panels and install. UFH would just be your plumber? Our slates came from SIG in Dundee, they came in the cheapest by far for a warranted slate, think they have a fife branch

Wow! How much? Think I'll stick to their chicken bakes and cottage pie then "feed" a homemade compost battery 💩

Walk in room...flip switch as you walk by..