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If you are not really using E7 and only a small amount of your usage is in the off peak times, then seriously consider switching to a single rate tariff. At the moment you will be paying higher for the day rate than you need to which is most of your usage.

Be aware that you have to have a certain EV car or charger to get on intelligent go. They choose when to actually do the charge which is why they can offer such good rates. You can check what equipment is eligible on their website but it's quite restrictive.

Octopus intelligent Go

@crofter they’re m3 so assuming normal ceiling height divide by 2.4 for m2. if ceiling height is right your around 11kWh/m2 for this month.

Thought I'd come back with how the A2A journey has been going so far. We fitted 2 x 2.5 kw and 2 x 3.5 kw indoor units with 2 outdoor in our bungalow to replace 5 storage heaters. Aside from a couple of tests of the AC in summer, it wasn't until September they saw much action. We haven't changed energy tarrif so still eco 7. I'd love to have some like for like stats on energy usage but there are quite a few moving factors. - Old draughty double glazed widows replaced with triple glazed early this year - Underfloor insulation in the suspended floor void - Standalone garage converted into a granny flat with building work starting in July and finishing in November. Build work put a bit of an increase in our daytime electricity and since completion we've had friends stay (10 days total) and I'm heating it on the two or three days a week I'm not in the office. The granny flat has a single 2kW panel heater. - Last year was our first year in the place and we were baltic for much of October /November until we gave up with wearing 12 layers and accepted we needed to top up heat with peak heat when the storage heaters were no longer keeping the temperature above 16. After that, we decided to try to accept the cost, be comfortable (no more than 3 jumpers) and get baseline of what our energy needs really were. I thought I'd share the stats I have. September, October we're down on usage and cost which was a bit of a surprise given building work. I put that down to running heating only for an hour or so when needed and probably a good COP as the temps hadn't dipped way down. November we were up on usage and cost. Not surprising as I was running heating and dehumidifier in the granny flat to draw out last of the moisture, we had a cold snap that coinsided with friends staying in there for a few days. As I mentioned, last year we were trying to avoid top up peak heat which we gave up on as it was making us miserable. December is looking really positive. We've had family round for Xmas day as per 2022 so whole house and sunroom set to sauna ++ to keep the oldies from feeling a chill. This year it was much easier to heat the place and much warmer than last year. One other event that meant whole house and sunroom heating was cranked up again. We've also had young ones in the granny flat this week who are unfamiliar with short showers and off switches. I think we're likely to be £450 this month vs £670 December 2022. (Admittedly Dec last year have a good week + of very low temps where we were going through 80kWh daily). I'm not entirely trusting of the SP app but supposedly it is comparing last year to this year using current prices. If our December saving is comparable to Jan and Feb then hopefully we'll be saving around 500 over those months alone and enjoying more responsive and comfortable heating. Worth noting for balance - ROI not taken into account. Come July potential saving should be clearer (unless we fast track on our solar plans) . New system was about 9k fitted. It will have annual maintenance overhead unlike the storage heaters. System lifespan isn't going to be anything like that of storage heaters. Defrost cycles in very cold weather are regular (quite short periods so far even at - 6). Pure luck that the indoor units we tend to run together when very cold are connected different outdoor units. We opted for high wall mounted units so there's still the cool air pocket down low issue. I do wonder if a ceiling fan might help. It's a different type of heat which takes a bit of getting used to. As the room comes to temp, there's the feeling of cold draft as the air circulates. I find that's avoided if I don't try to crank the heat up very quickly but instead set a timer to give it 1 hour to come up to desired temp. All in ALL, very happy we made the switch and wondering if I'll regret not putting it into the granny flat. Much appreciated all the BH help and advice that went into my lengthy decision making 😁

At the moment it all seems marginal - with differences on normal tariffs of well under 10%. I made my call last autumn and did the Octopus 12m Fix, which gives me rates of 26.76 p/kWh electric, and 6.76 p/kWh gas until next autumn, with stiff exit penalties. Plus the Octopus Loyalty Bonus reduces those by about £2 per fuel per month (=£48 per year), which seems to have been adopted by many other suppliers now. Giving me rates quoted on my bill of 25.49p for electric and 6.44p for gas overall. I think. Current Octopus rates are now at 28.26p and 6.61p before loyalty bonus. These are due to increase by ~5% from January I think. But I will lose out relatively in the summer period when the OFGEM Cap is forecast to come down - which is when I use very little energy. I think it will be to my benefit by £100-£200 over the year; nice but only a small lollipop. The other bonus I get is cover against the market being upturned.

I dont. Because there is no affordable practical answer. Theres circa 26 million houses in the UK. Id guess that at least 20 million are hopless from an efficency point of view. We have already concluded that updating the exsisting stock will have limited benefit even if it could be done well. Which it wont be. And it would take decades. And thats before we consider all the "new" problems with damp, mould etc that will be created. Or the cost. Lets say £40 - 50k a house. Its mind boggling numbers. Cant happen. Wont happen. So that leaves us with iceverge's idea, buldoze and build new. Even less likely to happen. The problems we have are ones we create by trying to artifically increase the pace of change, change that would happen over time anyway.

If the mixer will run on a combi it will work from a cylinder. Assume if you are having a hat pump you will have an unvented cylinder? They like a balanced hot cold water water pressure and that's about it. I went combi to heat pump, just had to adjust the mid point mixing temperature.

What a lot of sweeping generalisations you seem to make. I rather think that the Victorians did what every generation does build a mix of housing, good mediocre and terrible. If you were wealthy you could afford to get a good house designed and built for you. If you were poor you had to put up with whatever jerry built tat was available - just like today. (Jerry built - earliest usage believed to be 1832.) (Qv survivorship bias.)

The Victorians built the best houses they could at the time with the given technology. Pity we can't collectively seem to learn from them.

Then that is £350/year. If you got an Ecocent type water heater, then you may get that £150/year (if you run it at night). Not much difference if you change to a fixed rate tariff.

I assume you mrean we "sdhouldnt" be selling them to numptys? Problem is, installing myself is potentially affordable. Paying to have it done (borderline impossible here anyway) means its not affordable. So continue with what i have. Which is worse? Not that it changes the law. Its clear that by getting the customer to nominate an installer is sufficent to keep the regulator off their back. They all appear to be doing much the same.

That's what we did. It'll make it easier to put your cladding on, regular fixing points etc. We used a combination of tile battens and some fresh timber milled to the same size from the chap who gave us the cladding (literally offcuts from milling the trees). Staple your membrane on. I've a couple of this sort though Parkside ones from Lidl: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374194279817? With a helper roll it out along a side, watch you keep the bottom level to whatever line you're finishing at. Staple top left. Then with the helper holding the roll staple bottom right. Stapling on the diagonal will keep it taught. Staple here and there. Cut the membrane and fold/staple into any window & door reveals. You'll want a horizontal batten top and bottom to try and prevent insect and vermin ingress. Then do vertical battens (between the top and bottom ones) and cladding. Got any pictures yet?

I don't understand your heating regime at all. Are you saying you don't turn on your heating to take advantage of E7? Washing machine and dishwasher are relatively low usage.

The chances are slim but not zero. If you think you’re going to fret about it then change it. If you think you might fret now but it’ll pass then just leave it.

I think my volumes are right. We do have really quite hight ceilings for a bungalow. It's not traditional - previously was a substation so our living room has very high ceilings. E7 is still getting used for DHW, dishwasher, washing machine. Prior to holidays I'd use to warm living area before I'm up and out for work. With the holidays, that's switched off as I'm not up at 6. I'm quite liking a consistent temp for sleeping so one is sometimes kept on low if the temps have really dipped. I was interested again in batteries now (Feb 2024) the vat saving is not tied to solar instal. Our long term solar plan needs the 'to reroof or not' question answered so all went on hold this year. I need to do some more maths but last I was looking at a givenergy AIO, the ROI was getting where I need it to be. Think that was based on switching to a tarrif that would allow me to fully charge and discharge battery twice daily in winter (if such a tarrif exists) so potentially away from eco 7. The battery wouldn't be a money saver so much as added convenience especially when solar comes into the picture. It would also be nice to have some degree of backup in a power out given we have nothing else heating /powering the house. I'm going to keep a close eye. My initial thought was is wasn't worth the investment for 5 months where heating on and average 2.5 days a week but I didn't think about overheating in summer so another thing on the monitor list. The place was stripped back to brick, reroofed and insulated up so it actually benifits from a blast of eco 7 between 5 and 7 to bring temp up and then it's just top up during the day. I could do with a monitor mind you just for my curiosity.

Was the old one on a key ring saying "12 Laurel Avenue"? If not even if someone found it how would they know what house it fits?

You need evidence for gases. You don't need evidence for equipment though. You need a statement from the end customer regarding who they intend to use to install it. That's not evidence. 😉 Potentially. Do you think they require *evidence* of who is installing the equipment (above and beyond the regulations) or a *statement* from the customer though (which is all the regulations require; subject to unforeseen changes; not independently verifiable etc) The regs don't prohibit the same of this kit. They just ask the end user to write you a letter. Which you're not obligated to check and not can you practically enforce before shipping. The illegal part was and still remains installing fgas splits without the fgas ticket. Which says nothing of your suitability for installing such equipment. (understanding of vacuum levels/times, pressure tests, flare making/brazing, leak checking etc) Hence being able to buy the same thing in B&Q overseas. I'm not instructing I've to change their mind after writing the letter with an installer on it but one can see how the kit can still be purchased. "Medicine for goat" as Tom Hanks would say.

The quoted sizes are m3 so room volume not area. Looks about right vs plans for 2.7m ish ceiling heights. @Gill are you able to make use of the E7 cheap rate at all now? Planning a battery, or moving to a different tariff might reduce running costs assuming you aren't running the a2a all night.

Maybe you can see why I think most old houses reach a point they need to be rebuilt. We still build houses like we did cars 120 years ago. Every part is bespoke. We need production lines with standard parts building passive houses at an affordable cost, not messing around with old piles to get them to a still poor level. Excellent result. You're a good bit colder than we are in Cork too. Its the fabric of your build rather than the ASHP is the star of your show however.

@Crofter put some basic 6 month in thoughts here. Very different use case - I'm looking for winter gains, but might provide some insight. Happy to help if any questions.

I bought these for our house. https://thehomeofinteriors.co.uk/product/rolls-neo-metal-curtain-pole-35mm-stud/ I could probably just hang off them, the kids have not damaged them either. They also have more substantial ones as well but not cheap. Ours are more than sturdy enough.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a loss leader /funded trial to then use in marketing material as part of the long con. Easiest and cheapest form of marketing, and the civil servant paying the capex but not the opex doesn't give a shit... He now looks like a genius as he upgraded/has a trial signed off for 100% sustainable electric heating for 1/5th price of a hydrogen boiler (lol) or an ASHP. 'look Doris, I know your grandson said they don't work.. But look... The UK military is trialing them and they know a thing or two about technology... Trust me....'

As a rule of thumb, if you halve the ∆T, then double the surface area, then round up to the next available size.

Some still use ply cement board etc I use Ditra matting directly onto the deck 5 mil for mat and adhesive Then what ever tile your using the adhesive needs to be the same thickness

Yes, they are swift boxes - part of my planning permission; there are a whole load of other ecological conditions too, a native species hedge, bat boxes and hedgehog access. I'm very happy to comply with them all, but would like to keep the badgers out of my garden!

check reveals ftw

Just plan well ahead if inserting the reducers directly into the manifold, as they are a pita to remove. If there’s any doubt, use a 150mm long piece of copper pipe inserted into the manifold so you can get the clip on removal tool in play. Prob then best to use a ‘socket’ reducer vs ‘spigot’ to save having to buy a coupler. https://www.screwfix.com/p/hep2o-plastic-push-fit-reducing-coupler-15mm-x-10mm/7165f?ref=SFAppShare

You cannot Appeal a withdrawn application as it has not been formally determined. You can therefore only Appeal Approvals or Refusals.

I would just fit a conventional good quality one unless you end up with extract only ventilation. There'll be plenty of air in your house to feed the stove. No need to put in more holes. It does help. I'll try to show with some Therm simulations adapting my own 250mm eps cavity wall. An approximation of external wall insulation only. Total interior U value 0.49. Now with 200mm EPS in the floor. U value drops to 0.3 but still lots of heat escapes via the corner if insulation is not carried down. Bearing in mind this is with a wall U value of about 0.13 and a floor of 0.16 so the effect of the thermal bridge is dramatic. Look what happens when we carry the insulation 700 mm below floor level. U value drops to 0.2. A big improvement. The same but with floor insulation removed. U Value back to 0.34. Next I've added 1m of 100mm EPS horizontally. The floor U Value is now the same as with just the 200mm floor insulation and nothing externally below ground. (this is a simplistic example so they wouldn't perform the same in reality. BTW I've also accidentally removed the outer leaf here but it makes little difference) Finally I've done all I can to avoid digging the floor, Externally insulated with 250mm EPS 700mm below the ground. Included a 1m wing and added 25mm of EPS above the floor to take the underfloor heating pipes. U value is 0.27 overall. I'm going to make a crude estimation and say this is the equivalent of putting 250mm EPS in your floor and not taking any measures against the wall/floor junction. The lesson of all this is 2 fold, firstly if you can't or really don't want to dig up your floor there are other options. Secondly insulation is of limited use without getting a handle on thermal bridges. If you search for "french drain" I did some posts recently about them. I think everyone should have one. It'll be a pain with the insulation already installed and if you put in batt or roll insulation you'll never fix it right again after putting in the ducts. Hope this helps.

Thats a really poor schematic, and will cause a number of issues and has some errors. The UFH (which he states they aren’t using) will cause short cycling in the boiler as there is no buffer; the cold feeds to taps will be unbalanced so it will cause issues with any mixer taps or showers as should be off the control block; WC feeds are not shown (but should be where all cold is shown); the hot water will be throttled as there is a 22mm supply but a 15mm outlet (..??!), and 12mm to showers is far too small. He also off balances the showers using 12mm hot and 15mm cold. Also, his heating schematic shows two bedrooms without radiators - this is the issue with PHPP in that he only wants a small heat input (~5kW from a quick add up) yet he discounts UFH. The better choice for this would have been UFH with a 8kW ASHP which would be more cost effective and simpler to install.

Thanks. Never found that before. But to be honest, wish id never looked. How complicated is it possible to make it? But i guess thats the idea? Mind you, i dont understand it any way. Why do most of them have "eco7" day and night rates AND a flat rate. Surely its one or the other. ow can it possibly be both?

Exactly. Not illegal to sell to somebody who doesn't hold an fgas ticket. 😉 You won't. Propane is the low GWP / non toxic option. It's explosive in the right mixture though. (if you try hard enough - though the EU is sensibly about to up the limits from 150 grams to 900 grams based on experience / calcs) F-Gases (the lot of them) are non toxic / not explosive. They're ALL high GWP though. (in one way or another - either directly or through intermediate breakdown products) I can't get too excited about blowing people up whilst we're still piping methane into houses and relying on humans not to leave the valve open without the flame being lit. I can't get too excited about dropping half a kilo of R32 by accident whilst you can still buy a plane ticket to Magaluf on purpose either. The potential benefits outweigh the risks. What you DON'T do is allow A N Other to buy the gas itself. If you fudge up you need to call a pro to check it all. No constantly topping up leaking splits. Not that the so called pros are any better. You can't get thicker than a kwik fit fitter yet they're still allowed to hose R134a into shagged old cars without so much as a sniff test. A reality. https://www.gradientcomfort.com/ You take a performance hit and a cost hit though.

Ask at your trial for the EPC certificate of the prison they are proposing to send you to.......

Ah sorry @Pocster I misunderstood 🤪

He admitted to me that he arrived a couple of times to find his front door open, turns out that rain had triggered it open!!!! Yes I looked into keyless (like on a car) but the reviews were not that good.

Whatever you do with your pot I’d get it well hidden! 14 months since my husband had his brain haemorrhage and multiple complications he is no longer the man he was and therefore not able to come home. I now stand to lose half of the house we’ve worked all our lives to have. This house was going to be sold when we retired to give us an additional pension pot as we have no private pensions. I am now in the situation that with my half I’ll probably need to buy something like an ex council house to give me extra cash to live in my retirement. This is something neither of us foresaw and it makes me so angry to think we’ve really worked for nothing, if we’d stayed in a council house all our lives and had no assets his care would have been paid for!