Gus Potter

Just speculation but is that a bit of quarry tile that you would use on your hall floor say?

Hello Jamie. A few random thoughts, based on your budget of say 10k and doing a lot of the work yourself. Have you thought about going for a different look. What about a composite panel roof with steel purlins. Your wind and water tight pretty much right away. Also, you could spend a bit on the flashings to get a contemporary / but less industrial look that could compliment the existing house and the shading of the doors. This would /could then lead to either a couple of hot rolled steel portals at the gables with wind bracing along the back wall. Or you could explore cold formed steel portals as well. You could overclad parts of the composite with larch say or some other material. There is loads of stuff you can play with. You could over clad at you leisure as you look ahead to maybe linking in the house at a later date. I think you may be pushing your luck with flitch beams this size as deflection / bolting etc may trip you up when you come to the detailed analysis. Also, you would need a heavy flitch (thick too!) plate, may be hard to get one that long anyway that is straight and true. You could have a look at glulam. Here you could have a deeper one, still sit the bottom roughly flush with the ceiling but let the top side sit above the roof, thus creating a bit of a parapet. This may look ok as the vertical proportion of the beam over the door may fit well with the vertical height of the doors. You could maybe do something here to incorporate some subtle external lighting. I'm not sure but the likes of Carrara Hill has made some posts on how you can externally light a structure so folk can't see in at night. Also, if you have a bit of a parapet and there is some snow on the roof it may stop more of the water dripping as it thaws? Have a look about for Glulams that have been miss measured, it happens, you may get lucky and pick them up for a song. You could go back to the steel portal idea. Here, to keep the beam depth down you can weld a top / and or bottom plate onto a beam. One effect of this is to reduce the deflection and can provide a thinner accessible flange to drill and fix things too. Also, you can get more insulation in too. But also you could creat a good ledge to rest the sips panels on as you need some end distance for the fixings into the sips panels. If you transfer load to the beam this way it is not central and the beam will start to twist i.e. torsion. Have a word with the sips panel designer and see if they can put a good heavy end on the sips panel. This may allow you to bolt through the web / up through a bottom plate of the beam along with some brackets to transfer the torsion back into the roof. I'm not sure how far you will get with this as there will be a design for the sips manufacturer, and it's complex. It may be too small a job to make it worth while. Have fun!

Good photos Nod. You can see from Nod's photos how the metal straps & noggings (dwangs in Scotland) are installed so that when the wind sucks out the gable wall the load is resisted by the trusses, roof structure acting together. The roof acts like a deep beam and this holds the gable wall in place. There is easy to find guidance on this from say the NHBC details online. The same rules apply at ceiling level unless the wall has been designed on the basis of floor to ridge height. I think Epsilon has spotted this. Good example Nod of a job well done. You can see from Nod's photos how the diagonal wind bracing has been carefully cut where it meets the blockwork. By doing this Nod has ensured that the end distance for the nails has been maintained..in other words if a nail is too close to the end or edge of a timber it is no good. You can also see how Nod has placed the bracing close to the node points of the trusses as per good practice etc.

What are you building? Great part of the country, stunning in fact.

I think epislon is having a look at how the wall is tied in at ceiling level so is asking a good question. Take, if you can a photo of the whole length of the ceiling where it meets the wall from both above and below. Take some close up ones of any steel straps, any fixings and some panoramic ones so the likes of epilon can see the whole roof structure.

Hi Jamie. I would go back to basics before you open the wallet/ purse / gourd or raid the money tree in the garden. You have three walls and a roof with no openings. You do have quite a "stiff box" to work with. Most walls and roofs are pretty stiff. Think about them as deep beams, the roof, if it is detailed well it acts like a deep beam and thus able to transfer load down to the foundations quite adequately via the walls. If you have bottom supported bifolds, then yes they are heavy but when you work out the horizontal loads that appear at the head of the doors (when they are open) you may often find that they are no more onerours than the loads that occur when the doors are shut and the wind is sucking them outwards. It's just my view but bottom supported bifolds are more common now. Logically it's ok to float one part of a structure and connect it to another. You just need to design for the differential movement. Ask this. Say you have an 18 th centuary house, you add an extension, both will move differentially relative to the seasons, temperature and so on. Both the old house and the new extension often still float on the ground (unless maybe on similar rock), just they move up and down differently. All materials are elastic and some can also expand/ contract differently if the are sensetive to moisture. Before you go down the "steel route" and the associated foundations, deal with the cold bridging etc then it may be worth while going back to basics and avoiding all the extra interfaces and assosciated labour cost. This way you may be able to bring it all in budget and still have a competant structure / safe design that will still allow you to connect the house to it later. In summary you may get this within budget if you go for bottom hung doors, do away with all the steel, base plates and thickened founds and approach the design in a different way.

Good question Revelation. Just a thought.. make sure you buy flooring with a BBA and a CE certificate /mark, in other words make sure you buy structural chip board flooring. Once you get this stuff it's very much up to you. If you don't look after the materials on site then no matter how much you spend you are wasting your money. Have a look at the manufacture's data (fine print), they spell it out in terms of material handling and storage etc. If you are going for UFH then you want to get it as dry as you can. The plastic film is favoured by developers as they get a longer window before wind and water tight, also they need to spend less on the commerial clean after the tapers/ plasterers have been in. But generally the developers are not doing UFH. I would buy the unfilmed stuff, look after it and get it as dry as you can. Then once you are ready for the carpets, oak flooring, get down on you hands and knees and give it a good old fashioned scrub with a cloth and a brush!.. twice at least. Then enjoy the fruits, you can walk about in your bare feet..it's great!

Hi Revelation. As an aside. It would be worth checking if the joists can take a sand/ cement concrete screed. Ask the Engineer if the floor can take a bit extra load, this is a simple option, but it works and it's easy to lay. The heat does not perhaps transmit as fast but at the end of the day heat rises and it will come out eventually. Look up Jeremy Harris on this site as there is some great info and lots of good contributions from the other site members. Take a basic sand cement infill between the first floor joists. You just need to set the timer to come on a bit earlier. Unless you want to try and make UF perform in response time like radiators? You could save a lot by not having the spreader plates. Your first floor will almost "tick" over as you'll get heat transfer from the ground floor. In other words (crudely) the ceiling below will also be heated by the ground floor UF and the heat gets up the stair well too. I'm not being too scientific here. The key here is that if you have not got some heat into the building and reduced the humidity then the last thing you need is chipboard with a plastic layer, it will just seal in the moisture. It's a pain but get the chipboard, stack it up with packers so that there is a gap between each board, let the wind into it and get it as dry as you can. Leave a gap at the edge of the floor for when you go on holiday and the heating is off .. it will swell. Screw it (chipboard) down with plenty glue , you can then go over it later and adjust / add more screws to stop most of the creaks / squeeks! It's hard to stop them all but that is part of underfloor heating life! But when you can walk about in your bare feet in luxury, you just learn to avoid the odd squeeky bit! And, when you get older and a bit deafer you don't hear the noise anyway. Before you lay the oak really be patient and condition it, it will pay dividends!

Hello Balraj. It's worth starting from under the ground up and getting a handle on the foundation cost. This is the bit that introduces uncertainty, and can "burst your football.. burst the baw in Scotland" , it can put the rest on a bit of a back burner. A bit of time spent on the ground conditions here can save you a pile of money which you get to spend on the things that matter, the things you see, the functionality and so on that you want, and sometimes more too! One great thing about self building is that you can experiment, do stuff that no one else has and is unique to you, often at a budget cost. Put in the research work and get a handle on how things work and fit together. Adapt it to suit you, not something that a developer wants to sell you. If you get stuck ( say on ground works, passive slab / insulated slab design and the ins and outs) then just ask folk and you'll be surprised at the positive response you get. Many get to a self build point where they can price the windows, roof, finishes, kitchens, lighting, bathrooms and so on. The uncertainty can lie in the ground, drainage, choice of foundation, soil conditions, and type of superstructure (the bit above the ground) and so on. Can I suggest, although a bit dull that you go back and review from the bottom (foundations) up. Start by looking at the ground and what is best to put on top of that. There may be good savings to be made. If you are not sure post here and you will get a lot of help. It's hard to wade your way thought the merits of different designs and insulation offerings / methods but much of it is not that complex. Yes, it is complex if you are working on high rise high end stuff but you can still get a pretty good outcome by simplifying things while still keeping the innovative concept... without the associated cost and design fees. Have fun and all the best.

Following this. Just a thought. Are you close to the sea? What kind of barn is it, traditional ? If not is the structure moving about and overstressing the fixings of the cladding causing the ovalling , hole enlargement?

Hello Jamie. You may be able to look at this in a different way. A lot of Bifold / Sliding doors now days are bottom supported. That means the floor etc carries the weight. Think about a lift and slide set of sliding doors, you turn a big handle, it lifts the doors and this lets them slide. Most of the weight is carried by the bottom runner and the top runner is there to stop it falling out and moving in. There are other types that don't need a massive handle, but they are a bit more higher end. Let's say you go for bottom supported doors and now you can follow a different design path. What you look to do is to hold up the roof over the opening rather than the roof and the associated weight of the doors and the added deflection the door weight brings. Now you only need to design for the roof load rather than the roof load + the weight of the doors. Your starting point here is to go back to the roof loads. If you want a decent job then mostly roofs are designed for it's own self weight + an access load. They are also checked for wind loads and for snow drift loads. Mosty snow drift loads don't govern the design unless you live at higher altitude or say in Aberdeenshire etc. To get you on the ball park on a small roof like this. If you fix it well at the corners the wind load will not be an issue, also, unless you have the "cave" right next to a larger building off which snow can blow this snow drift problem often "goes away" A standard roof access load is about 60kg / sq metre before safety factors, roof self weight varies a bit but you can work this out depending on what you want to make the roof from. Jamie.. post some more on how you are going to construct the walls & roof . If you have an inclination towards timber construction this drives the design, you could go down the composite insulated metal panel route, then over clad that...,and there are more options. For something like this you often don't need a heavy found, pads and so on. In fact, with something like this you almost want it to "float about on the ground below" Folk may cringe at this but let the thing move about, just control where the movement takes place, design for the movement and save money. It sounds complex but it's not really, much is common sense. Oh, and lastly if you can make some savings on the founds and goal post and opt for a higher end doors with thinner mullions then choose you sizes. You may want to knock it down later and use the doors to fit into that fab extension that is next on the bucket list! If you are able to do some of the work yourself you could get something pretty good for your budget.

Good posts. Don't skimp on the smoke alarms. You'll often see folk complaining (maybe not so much on build hub) about say activity spaces in kitchens, bathooms and smoke alarms. The building regulations are, in part are designed to keep you safe. For me, the fire regulations need to be improved and made more robust. Overall, it's a small extra amount. If you have ever been in a fire it is no fun, you want to make sure you can get out first, then be glad that you did it the right way and that the insurance will pay to clean up what is left.

All the best. It's some journey but can be very rewarding. Try and have as much fun as you can. Take plenty photos too as a record. You can look back later and think to yourself " I did that"

Hello all. Gow I think quoted part of an earlier post I made "If an SER certificate is presented then the council have to accept this, even if they have reservations." Could you expand? Your post stops.. so not sure what you are asking. Gow you also asked about normal times for warrant processing. My experience (Pre COVID) is that with an SER certificate in Glasgow you may get you warrant a couple of weeks sooner than if you submit calcs. However, much depends on the overall quality of the submission. You can get hung up on say the positioning of a CO alarm! If you have a designer that is in regular contact with BC then many potential queries are sorted out, clarified, just in the day to day process. The BCO does not have to spend time writing comments and so on when they can just get a reasoned explanation over the phone or if need be get a note or two added to a drawing. At the moment it's all over the place. I had a warrant through from one of the Renfrewshire Councils in less than five weeks with calcs rather than SER route, often faster than pre covid. On the other hand I have one with another Council that at the moment is just stuck in the admin / computer system ether although the BCO and checking Engineers are happy. The computer just says "no" Don't forget that a lot of the council IT is well behind the times. A lot of the Planners and BCO's are doing their best, it's just that the systems are not able to cope at moment. The Sole makes really good points. Different Councils operate in different ways. So If you are in Argyll and Bute then you should try and seek out designers like the Sole. One thing I have tried to highlight is that as a self builder /extender in Scotland you are not confined to the SER route alone. Look at the options you have and the best thing for you.

Scottish John is bang on. They did use large lumps of stone, smaller ones on top and a bit of compacted clay / straw say on top of that. You can use the same engineering principles when looking at foundation depth in terms of frost cover to your founds and so on in today's day and age. For example if you have site that is founded on rock (or soft fractured / partly weathered rock) it can often be hard to explain to the less familiar why you are not following the warranty provider's guidance on mimimum depths to the underside of the found.

Hello Bonnar. Cost /value ..Your post is interesting and also I think relevant to the typical self builder / home extender on this site, thank you. Please excuse the lack of formality.. and my spelling, Firstly, there are a few posts on this forum from folk who have been asking how much of an uplift (extra profit, or value) they will get if they do something along the lines of "Passive House", i.e a well insulated house, ICF that keeps the energy bills down, while also, if you are inclined, to contribute to the environment. I'm a follower of looking at the overall carbon footprint, more than " whole of design life footprint etc" which makes me a bit of a heretic in that part of the commercial world. In other words, I don't accept narrow definition. Some self builders/ habitual developers want to not go to full "passive" registration but want to "equal" it to some extent. They also want to see if they can get an uplift on the sale price on the basis that it is an "eco" type house. I'll include here repeat self builders who are doing this as way of income rather than a one off "forever home" If you search on this site there are a few really experienced folk that say.. you may not get your money back on the full if eco route if you sell on. I agree with this as the average purchaser has a life to run, and they are not bothered that much about the "leccy" bill as compared to the sky footy sub, it's just another cost. Yes they would like to buy an "eco" & "Architecturally designed house" to keep up with their pals, but how much uplift will they pay for the environmental credential? It makes sense to me that commercial developers as well as self builders will be here on this site, or at least monitoring it and looking ahead. ICF is still a small niche market, but it's not yet a volume market. Funnily, in terms of Structural Enginnering most of it is pinched and adapted from commercial design, say cold stores and Canadian/ American permafrost design - reversed and tweaked, and a few bits of other stuff. In Engineering terms we are not reinventing the wheel here in terms of ICF and ground bearing slabs, it's often just presented on a fancy web site with good graphics. This cost will come down in the future no doubt. Any good developer looks to the future, self builder's want to save on their energy bills, some on their carbon footprint and so on. It's all to play for here. In summary Bonnar, you're onto a good thing but I would not hang my coat (too shoogly a peg) on the value that ICF is going to bring to the property when you look ahead to sell at this stage, rather , concentrate on what value it brings to you and your family, and that you are in a cosy castle you built yourself, anything else is a bonus. Look at all the alterantive structural options in the coldlight of day, wiegh it up and as you already probably know the solution will stare you in the face! Clearly there is a drive to reducing our carbon footprint - U values etc . COVID has stalled legislation on tighter U value to some extent, but it will come. Often to effect change you need to show folk where the money is..sites like Buildhub actually are providing a lot of free market research for developers, and they lobby the government. To me the energy performance regulations will become more stringent. In Scotland they are a bit more onerous but that change took years to effect. It will come at some point down South but it wil take few years to actually get written into the building regulations. To finish Bonnar. I would say concentate on you own home first, your castle, then if all goes well then by all means look at doing it to "make a living" if you make a good job of it then it will provide more equity to fund a development business? All the best.

Some "old school stuff" on timber rot / infestation (woodworm etc) theory. It does not thrive in; dark, cold, dry and draughty places. So when designing aim for that, then you can add to it modern theory and treatments. Bear these fundamental principles in mind and you are off to a good start. Design well and you may not need a lot, if any added chemicals... and save money to boot! Ask this.. how did they manage to do it in the past before we had all these added treatments and formulae paints etc? There are timber framed buildings that have stood for hundred's of years! Keep it out the rain splash zone that Onoff mentions and so on.

Nick's is bang on and I think speaking from experience. If you have a couple of spare tiles and you can still get into the back of the wall then bite the bullet and have another go. I think Nick is trying to guide you. If you don't get these fittings lined up right then you'll end up with a leak in a few months . There is not as much play in the fittings (cranked etc) as you would like to think. It's ok to make a mistake from time to time.

Do you have any spare tiles? Can you get to the back of the wall without to much drama, or can you set a side a morning to carefully take off the two tiles? Yes it will take that long possibly. But each following morning you get into the shower you'll know you did it right. Even if you can't get to the back of they wall all is not lost. If you burst the plaster board weave in a dwang (nogging in England) to catch the edges when you reinstate, use a bit of water proof glue too to stick the dwang in place for good measure. I learnt that if you don't get all the fittings aligned then you always worry about leaks. Best to bite the bullet if you can and take off a tile or two.

Thank you internetknowhow and for your encouraging comments. To expand on what you say. Here is a thing for folk that are starting out, it is also applicable to "veterans" as sometimes it's worth reflecting on where you started out.. and maybe why you have become a "crusty old git/ gitesse" If you are reading this then you'll know (if you don't then spend a bit more time here as it will save you money and if you get stuck folk will chip in and help you) that this is great knowledge bank. I learn something new here all the time. I have made a few posts where I mention that this is a people business but I don't mean that you should be a soft touch. Do your research and this will serve you well. They say "walk softly.. but carry a big stick!" your stick is your research in some ways. The key for an enjoyable build is not to have to actually have to use the stick. Sefl building can and should be mostly fun not a nightmare.

To add to.. and to thank everyone for all the good posts. I you can't drive a machine yourself then another option if you are selfbuilding is possibly to look for a driver /machine owner.. or if you are hiring in from a larger machine contractor (machine + operator) is to explain what you are doing and that you want an operator that has worked on a few self builds, extensions etc. Maybe don't haggle down to the last penny at the beginning. Seems odd but this it's also a people thing. What you maybe really want is an operative that is a bit older...the younger ones can drive fast..but they crash.. older drivers (ask saga) are a bit slower swinging the bucket around but they easily compensate by bringing experience. A good experienced operator is worth their weight in gold.. well not quite..but often much more than a few pounds and hour plus the fuel. Often if you get to know them and make an effort to get on then you'll find that they say things like.. "Are you sure you want to dig there? .. Do you really want to double / treble.. quadrupal handle this soil, why not put it over there?" (..all of a sudden they have saved you money) . They often also say.. I was on another site and this went wrong, and so on, "maybe you want to have a look at doing it this way". I have worked with operatives that love giving a hand, they will jump out the machine and muck in if you are struggling on a pour say and so on. The next thing they say is , oh! I know someone who can help with your next stage. If you are not on site all the time they will also help / keep an eye on the young / less experienced folk for you. If you have a machine on site the operative will often offload material, stack it all right and say to the other contractors things like.. " you should cover that before the client" gets back and so on. This can really start to work in a rural location as the same driver will often end be in the same village / as a neighbour. But even in the town there are a lot of operatives that are descent folk. All you need to do is get off on the right foot.

What about turning this around and get an SE in first who has an eye for the cost, the implications and what other design options you can open up. You could have a lot of fun here exploring cost effective ideas with the slope and so on. Lot's of experienced Architect's spend a while finding SE's who can design economically for the domestic self build market. This enhances the Architect's chances of winning the job.. bringing in a project on budget etc thus building their own reputation. In doing so the SE also queitly builds their own as the go to person. It' may cost you a few hundered quid but the SE will also help you define the Architect's brief so they can concentrate on the "Architecture" , it removes some of the uncertainty and this may reflect on the Architect's fee in a positive way. Eventually you'll need to pay an SE anyway so why not get them in early. Make no mistake. The SE is responsible for the structure and that is why they will carry some £ 1 - 2 million PI insurance just for domestic jobs alone. There are some SE's who take pride in the fact that they save you more than they charge..if you can do that as an SE you have earn't your crust.. Funnily enough that is one way of getting the repeat business if you are an SE.

Faz A starting out self builder tends to be a one off customer, cash account almost, in the merchants view. Yes, some are using COVID to cover their lack of service but the majority of merchants / suppliers are trying their best. I take your points but what if you are a self builder, don't have industry experience, financial clout, don't know when to play hard or ease off? What are you to do? Yes, you can get out the big stick out but lot's of independant merchants / suppliers are only looking a week or two ahead. They are just trying to survive so maybe no point in setting the lawyer on them, they may not be there later! I have been talking to some mid range, smaller "suppliers" and one thing that is cropping up is cash flow. One tool you could consider as a self builder is to "pay cash" on your credit card, you get some protection if you do it the correct way. It can ease the cash flow problem for the merchants so this is attractive. They will possibly move you up the queue? Others have posted on the site about the ins and outs of credit card payment and the protection it can offer. Self builders.. open a friendly dialogue and see if payment oils the works...

There is an old story. Old bull and young bull in the top field and some good looking galloway cows (choose you preferred breed) in the bottom field. The young bull says.. dad let's run down and "introduce" ourselves to some of them".. the old bull says, no son, let's walk down and we can meet them all. It's best to be tactful when dealing with supplier's, ask firmly what the probem is and try and resolve it, yes be firm but also fair. If you can get to the bottom of the problem this way you build good will and often can jump up from the bottom of the in tray to the top. Also, later, if there is a quality issue you will be remembered as a "good guy" so take a long view, although in the heat of battle often forgotton. No point in wasting too much energy running when it is best just to walk in the long term?

Hi Conner. I'm a bit in the same boat on my own stuff. Yes board up with 9.0mm OSB say. I had some old PVC windows and doors that I fitted to let some light in and so on. Try phoning a UPVC installer and ask if you can take some of their old windows / doors (with keys) off their hands, it saves them the cost of the skip. You'll need to get rid of them later though. If timber then you could have a good bonfire at the end and use the galss for cold frames or a greenhouse, on my bucket list. This way you can make the building secure enough before you start to install stuff that can be nicked. Check with the insurer. You can get a long way then, you just need to finish the window reveals, cills. If it gets really bad with the COVID you could almost move in at a push on the QT, leaving the roughcast and windows to do.