Gus Potter

Hello Balraj. It's worth starting from under the ground up and getting a handle on the foundation cost. This is the bit that introduces uncertainty, and can "burst your football.. burst the baw in Scotland" , it can put the rest on a bit of a back burner. A bit of time spent on the ground conditions here can save you a pile of money which you get to spend on the things that matter, the things you see, the functionality and so on that you want, and sometimes more too! One great thing about self building is that you can experiment, do stuff that no one else has and is unique to you, often at a budget cost. Put in the research work and get a handle on how things work and fit together. Adapt it to suit you, not something that a developer wants to sell you. If you get stuck ( say on ground works, passive slab / insulated slab design and the ins and outs) then just ask folk and you'll be surprised at the positive response you get. Many get to a self build point where they can price the windows, roof, finishes, kitchens, lighting, bathrooms and so on. The uncertainty can lie in the ground, drainage, choice of foundation, soil conditions, and type of superstructure (the bit above the ground) and so on. Can I suggest, although a bit dull that you go back and review from the bottom (foundations) up. Start by looking at the ground and what is best to put on top of that. There may be good savings to be made. If you are not sure post here and you will get a lot of help. It's hard to wade your way thought the merits of different designs and insulation offerings / methods but much of it is not that complex. Yes, it is complex if you are working on high rise high end stuff but you can still get a pretty good outcome by simplifying things while still keeping the innovative concept... without the associated cost and design fees. Have fun and all the best.

Following this. Just a thought. Are you close to the sea? What kind of barn is it, traditional ? If not is the structure moving about and overstressing the fixings of the cladding causing the ovalling , hole enlargement?

Hello Jamie. You may be able to look at this in a different way. A lot of Bifold / Sliding doors now days are bottom supported. That means the floor etc carries the weight. Think about a lift and slide set of sliding doors, you turn a big handle, it lifts the doors and this lets them slide. Most of the weight is carried by the bottom runner and the top runner is there to stop it falling out and moving in. There are other types that don't need a massive handle, but they are a bit more higher end. Let's say you go for bottom supported doors and now you can follow a different design path. What you look to do is to hold up the roof over the opening rather than the roof and the associated weight of the doors and the added deflection the door weight brings. Now you only need to design for the roof load rather than the roof load + the weight of the doors. Your starting point here is to go back to the roof loads. If you want a decent job then mostly roofs are designed for it's own self weight + an access load. They are also checked for wind loads and for snow drift loads. Mosty snow drift loads don't govern the design unless you live at higher altitude or say in Aberdeenshire etc. To get you on the ball park on a small roof like this. If you fix it well at the corners the wind load will not be an issue, also, unless you have the "cave" right next to a larger building off which snow can blow this snow drift problem often "goes away" A standard roof access load is about 60kg / sq metre before safety factors, roof self weight varies a bit but you can work this out depending on what you want to make the roof from. Jamie.. post some more on how you are going to construct the walls & roof . If you have an inclination towards timber construction this drives the design, you could go down the composite insulated metal panel route, then over clad that...,and there are more options. For something like this you often don't need a heavy found, pads and so on. In fact, with something like this you almost want it to "float about on the ground below" Folk may cringe at this but let the thing move about, just control where the movement takes place, design for the movement and save money. It sounds complex but it's not really, much is common sense. Oh, and lastly if you can make some savings on the founds and goal post and opt for a higher end doors with thinner mullions then choose you sizes. You may want to knock it down later and use the doors to fit into that fab extension that is next on the bucket list! If you are able to do some of the work yourself you could get something pretty good for your budget.

Good posts. Don't skimp on the smoke alarms. You'll often see folk complaining (maybe not so much on build hub) about say activity spaces in kitchens, bathooms and smoke alarms. The building regulations are, in part are designed to keep you safe. For me, the fire regulations need to be improved and made more robust. Overall, it's a small extra amount. If you have ever been in a fire it is no fun, you want to make sure you can get out first, then be glad that you did it the right way and that the insurance will pay to clean up what is left.

All the best. It's some journey but can be very rewarding. Try and have as much fun as you can. Take plenty photos too as a record. You can look back later and think to yourself " I did that"

Hello all. Gow I think quoted part of an earlier post I made "If an SER certificate is presented then the council have to accept this, even if they have reservations." Could you expand? Your post stops.. so not sure what you are asking. Gow you also asked about normal times for warrant processing. My experience (Pre COVID) is that with an SER certificate in Glasgow you may get you warrant a couple of weeks sooner than if you submit calcs. However, much depends on the overall quality of the submission. You can get hung up on say the positioning of a CO alarm! If you have a designer that is in regular contact with BC then many potential queries are sorted out, clarified, just in the day to day process. The BCO does not have to spend time writing comments and so on when they can just get a reasoned explanation over the phone or if need be get a note or two added to a drawing. At the moment it's all over the place. I had a warrant through from one of the Renfrewshire Councils in less than five weeks with calcs rather than SER route, often faster than pre covid. On the other hand I have one with another Council that at the moment is just stuck in the admin / computer system ether although the BCO and checking Engineers are happy. The computer just says "no" Don't forget that a lot of the council IT is well behind the times. A lot of the Planners and BCO's are doing their best, it's just that the systems are not able to cope at moment. The Sole makes really good points. Different Councils operate in different ways. So If you are in Argyll and Bute then you should try and seek out designers like the Sole. One thing I have tried to highlight is that as a self builder /extender in Scotland you are not confined to the SER route alone. Look at the options you have and the best thing for you.

Scottish John is bang on. They did use large lumps of stone, smaller ones on top and a bit of compacted clay / straw say on top of that. You can use the same engineering principles when looking at foundation depth in terms of frost cover to your founds and so on in today's day and age. For example if you have site that is founded on rock (or soft fractured / partly weathered rock) it can often be hard to explain to the less familiar why you are not following the warranty provider's guidance on mimimum depths to the underside of the found.

Hello Bonnar. Cost /value ..Your post is interesting and also I think relevant to the typical self builder / home extender on this site, thank you. Please excuse the lack of formality.. and my spelling, Firstly, there are a few posts on this forum from folk who have been asking how much of an uplift (extra profit, or value) they will get if they do something along the lines of "Passive House", i.e a well insulated house, ICF that keeps the energy bills down, while also, if you are inclined, to contribute to the environment. I'm a follower of looking at the overall carbon footprint, more than " whole of design life footprint etc" which makes me a bit of a heretic in that part of the commercial world. In other words, I don't accept narrow definition. Some self builders/ habitual developers want to not go to full "passive" registration but want to "equal" it to some extent. They also want to see if they can get an uplift on the sale price on the basis that it is an "eco" type house. I'll include here repeat self builders who are doing this as way of income rather than a one off "forever home" If you search on this site there are a few really experienced folk that say.. you may not get your money back on the full if eco route if you sell on. I agree with this as the average purchaser has a life to run, and they are not bothered that much about the "leccy" bill as compared to the sky footy sub, it's just another cost. Yes they would like to buy an "eco" & "Architecturally designed house" to keep up with their pals, but how much uplift will they pay for the environmental credential? It makes sense to me that commercial developers as well as self builders will be here on this site, or at least monitoring it and looking ahead. ICF is still a small niche market, but it's not yet a volume market. Funnily, in terms of Structural Enginnering most of it is pinched and adapted from commercial design, say cold stores and Canadian/ American permafrost design - reversed and tweaked, and a few bits of other stuff. In Engineering terms we are not reinventing the wheel here in terms of ICF and ground bearing slabs, it's often just presented on a fancy web site with good graphics. This cost will come down in the future no doubt. Any good developer looks to the future, self builder's want to save on their energy bills, some on their carbon footprint and so on. It's all to play for here. In summary Bonnar, you're onto a good thing but I would not hang my coat (too shoogly a peg) on the value that ICF is going to bring to the property when you look ahead to sell at this stage, rather , concentrate on what value it brings to you and your family, and that you are in a cosy castle you built yourself, anything else is a bonus. Look at all the alterantive structural options in the coldlight of day, wiegh it up and as you already probably know the solution will stare you in the face! Clearly there is a drive to reducing our carbon footprint - U values etc . COVID has stalled legislation on tighter U value to some extent, but it will come. Often to effect change you need to show folk where the money is..sites like Buildhub actually are providing a lot of free market research for developers, and they lobby the government. To me the energy performance regulations will become more stringent. In Scotland they are a bit more onerous but that change took years to effect. It will come at some point down South but it wil take few years to actually get written into the building regulations. To finish Bonnar. I would say concentate on you own home first, your castle, then if all goes well then by all means look at doing it to "make a living" if you make a good job of it then it will provide more equity to fund a development business? All the best.

Some "old school stuff" on timber rot / infestation (woodworm etc) theory. It does not thrive in; dark, cold, dry and draughty places. So when designing aim for that, then you can add to it modern theory and treatments. Bear these fundamental principles in mind and you are off to a good start. Design well and you may not need a lot, if any added chemicals... and save money to boot! Ask this.. how did they manage to do it in the past before we had all these added treatments and formulae paints etc? There are timber framed buildings that have stood for hundred's of years! Keep it out the rain splash zone that Onoff mentions and so on.

Nick's is bang on and I think speaking from experience. If you have a couple of spare tiles and you can still get into the back of the wall then bite the bullet and have another go. I think Nick is trying to guide you. If you don't get these fittings lined up right then you'll end up with a leak in a few months . There is not as much play in the fittings (cranked etc) as you would like to think. It's ok to make a mistake from time to time.

Do you have any spare tiles? Can you get to the back of the wall without to much drama, or can you set a side a morning to carefully take off the two tiles? Yes it will take that long possibly. But each following morning you get into the shower you'll know you did it right. Even if you can't get to the back of they wall all is not lost. If you burst the plaster board weave in a dwang (nogging in England) to catch the edges when you reinstate, use a bit of water proof glue too to stick the dwang in place for good measure. I learnt that if you don't get all the fittings aligned then you always worry about leaks. Best to bite the bullet if you can and take off a tile or two.

Thank you internetknowhow and for your encouraging comments. To expand on what you say. Here is a thing for folk that are starting out, it is also applicable to "veterans" as sometimes it's worth reflecting on where you started out.. and maybe why you have become a "crusty old git/ gitesse" If you are reading this then you'll know (if you don't then spend a bit more time here as it will save you money and if you get stuck folk will chip in and help you) that this is great knowledge bank. I learn something new here all the time. I have made a few posts where I mention that this is a people business but I don't mean that you should be a soft touch. Do your research and this will serve you well. They say "walk softly.. but carry a big stick!" your stick is your research in some ways. The key for an enjoyable build is not to have to actually have to use the stick. Sefl building can and should be mostly fun not a nightmare.

To add to.. and to thank everyone for all the good posts. I you can't drive a machine yourself then another option if you are selfbuilding is possibly to look for a driver /machine owner.. or if you are hiring in from a larger machine contractor (machine + operator) is to explain what you are doing and that you want an operator that has worked on a few self builds, extensions etc. Maybe don't haggle down to the last penny at the beginning. Seems odd but this it's also a people thing. What you maybe really want is an operative that is a bit older...the younger ones can drive fast..but they crash.. older drivers (ask saga) are a bit slower swinging the bucket around but they easily compensate by bringing experience. A good experienced operator is worth their weight in gold.. well not quite..but often much more than a few pounds and hour plus the fuel. Often if you get to know them and make an effort to get on then you'll find that they say things like.. "Are you sure you want to dig there? .. Do you really want to double / treble.. quadrupal handle this soil, why not put it over there?" (..all of a sudden they have saved you money) . They often also say.. I was on another site and this went wrong, and so on, "maybe you want to have a look at doing it this way". I have worked with operatives that love giving a hand, they will jump out the machine and muck in if you are struggling on a pour say and so on. The next thing they say is , oh! I know someone who can help with your next stage. If you are not on site all the time they will also help / keep an eye on the young / less experienced folk for you. If you have a machine on site the operative will often offload material, stack it all right and say to the other contractors things like.. " you should cover that before the client" gets back and so on. This can really start to work in a rural location as the same driver will often end be in the same village / as a neighbour. But even in the town there are a lot of operatives that are descent folk. All you need to do is get off on the right foot.

What about turning this around and get an SE in first who has an eye for the cost, the implications and what other design options you can open up. You could have a lot of fun here exploring cost effective ideas with the slope and so on. Lot's of experienced Architect's spend a while finding SE's who can design economically for the domestic self build market. This enhances the Architect's chances of winning the job.. bringing in a project on budget etc thus building their own reputation. In doing so the SE also queitly builds their own as the go to person. It' may cost you a few hundered quid but the SE will also help you define the Architect's brief so they can concentrate on the "Architecture" , it removes some of the uncertainty and this may reflect on the Architect's fee in a positive way. Eventually you'll need to pay an SE anyway so why not get them in early. Make no mistake. The SE is responsible for the structure and that is why they will carry some £ 1 - 2 million PI insurance just for domestic jobs alone. There are some SE's who take pride in the fact that they save you more than they charge..if you can do that as an SE you have earn't your crust.. Funnily enough that is one way of getting the repeat business if you are an SE.

Faz A starting out self builder tends to be a one off customer, cash account almost, in the merchants view. Yes, some are using COVID to cover their lack of service but the majority of merchants / suppliers are trying their best. I take your points but what if you are a self builder, don't have industry experience, financial clout, don't know when to play hard or ease off? What are you to do? Yes, you can get out the big stick out but lot's of independant merchants / suppliers are only looking a week or two ahead. They are just trying to survive so maybe no point in setting the lawyer on them, they may not be there later! I have been talking to some mid range, smaller "suppliers" and one thing that is cropping up is cash flow. One tool you could consider as a self builder is to "pay cash" on your credit card, you get some protection if you do it the correct way. It can ease the cash flow problem for the merchants so this is attractive. They will possibly move you up the queue? Others have posted on the site about the ins and outs of credit card payment and the protection it can offer. Self builders.. open a friendly dialogue and see if payment oils the works...

There is an old story. Old bull and young bull in the top field and some good looking galloway cows (choose you preferred breed) in the bottom field. The young bull says.. dad let's run down and "introduce" ourselves to some of them".. the old bull says, no son, let's walk down and we can meet them all. It's best to be tactful when dealing with supplier's, ask firmly what the probem is and try and resolve it, yes be firm but also fair. If you can get to the bottom of the problem this way you build good will and often can jump up from the bottom of the in tray to the top. Also, later, if there is a quality issue you will be remembered as a "good guy" so take a long view, although in the heat of battle often forgotton. No point in wasting too much energy running when it is best just to walk in the long term?

Hi Conner. I'm a bit in the same boat on my own stuff. Yes board up with 9.0mm OSB say. I had some old PVC windows and doors that I fitted to let some light in and so on. Try phoning a UPVC installer and ask if you can take some of their old windows / doors (with keys) off their hands, it saves them the cost of the skip. You'll need to get rid of them later though. If timber then you could have a good bonfire at the end and use the galss for cold frames or a greenhouse, on my bucket list. This way you can make the building secure enough before you start to install stuff that can be nicked. Check with the insurer. You can get a long way then, you just need to finish the window reveals, cills. If it gets really bad with the COVID you could almost move in at a push on the QT, leaving the roughcast and windows to do.

I was wondering if the ground levels are the same all the way round the house? Say you get a bit of flooding / raised water table then will the solum not fill with water? Do you want to keep the solum space? Is it possible to put the insulation under the beams, put the dpc on top of the insulation and turn this up into the wall so that is the 150mm above ground level, above the theoretical splash point of the rain. Keep the beams on the warm side. Yes you may need a thicker screed, maybe not if you can raise the beams a bit? You would still need to "pocket" wrap the beam ends where they rest on the supporting underbuilding to keep the continuity of the DPM?

Tortuous times for BRI44. As a general comment Bri has gathered plenty evidence and working though the dispute process which is incredibly frustrating. I do think that BRI has a good chance of success as a lot of the evidence is overwhelming. At some point the builder will probably wake up, count their beans and come to the table with a view to mitigating their losses... which will likely be more than if they had engaged( meaningfully) earlier. If they don't it will probably get worse for them. It looks like there could be some structural safety issues here. If say the HSE were to get involved then the developer may have to answer to them also, and that is not cheep in terms of loss of reputation, just for example. Having the HSE take an investigative interest in your business / or you personally is an experience to be avoided. Food for thought if you were the developer that built BRi's house.

As slate is a natural material it does vary as you work through the quarry / mine face. Take say a traditional Welsh slate, it can be quite thin but hard wearing and durable and the proof is available to see. They can be made thin partly as the bed is more uniform, less subject to inclusions and so on. One key is to also look for a good slater that has been properly trained with plenty experience. They will cost you a bit more but if you buy a cheeper slate / poorer quality slate then they will sort out a lot of the obvious (and less obvious too) duff ones when they are grading the slates. All batches need graded by thickness. You put the thicker ones at the bottom, thinner at the top. I made a post before about grading and so on. They will also fix the slates properly so that you can get in to maintain the roof easily as time passes, tailing where required - tiny tails - say 10- 20mm or larger ones if you want the visual effect. With a good slater you can still get a good roof without paying top whack for the slates. Or you can get a "gold star roof" with top quality slates and a top quality slater.. but there is a bit more wallet damage, although it will last for many, many years and more after that! There is a difference in the traditional methods of fixing slates as you move round the country as this knowledge has been passed down the generations. Thus it's worth speaking to your local slater as well as looking at the big supplier's technical guidance.

Connor makes a good point about the noise being transmitted through the joists ( I'll call that flanking sound at risk of being pelted). Noise tranmission is quite technical. But say you have a 1960's semi with a party wall. Often you find the joists are built into the wall. You'll often find that between the joists there is a "soldier course" of brick.. the bricks are on end, hence the word "soldier" as opposed to being laid flat. Lift a couple of floor boards along the party wall and look at the pointing on the soldier course, you'll often find gaps here as they were harder to bed properly and that timber joists will have shrunk over time leaving a series of gaps. It will be the same on the neighbour's side. They did know about fire protection even in the 60's but you were allowed to have a few beers during the day on site then so no one really bothered. Make sure you fill any gaps in the soldier course to avoid disappointment. Also, when you have the boards up it a good opportunity to run some extra electrics.. just a thought.. If you want to stuff the joists next to the party wall with say rock wool etc as well then keep this away from electrical cables as they can heat up. I think there are other posts on buildhub about this.. search for Jeremy Harris and similar poster's etc.

Hi AG_YB Nothing wrong in taking insperation from others, after all that is sometimes / often how we all make progress. It's what you do next that is important for you. We all design stuff even if that means choosing the paint, wall paper, a new duvet. Some do it to make a living, some for fun and or for personal satisfaction. But (personally speaking) once something is built you tend to look back and think..I could have just done that bit a wee bit better, or that bit is a howler.. and (not you) if you have not made some of these yet then time is on the "howler's" side. Maybe go back the the Architect (who's design you love) and ask how much it would cost to tweak it just for you? Maybe look at the orientation of the house, the views, how the sun sets and rises, shaddows.. you can make a long list. Also, look at how you are actually going to really use the house once you have been in it for a couple of years and the novelty has worn off? It may cost less than you think? It does no harm to phone them up and just ask. It's ok to get inspiration as Peter W says, just don't rip off other folks stuff whole sale and don't copy their actual detailed drawings. Personally if someone is copying one of my concept designs then it's quite good to be "followed" .. it's the only time I get to be famous. It's a good point you make about seeing something and saying "yes" .. it's a gut feeling and worth trusting, just check your facts.. just for reassurance. There are a few alternatives in terms of the traditional Architect route. If you know what you want or even if you don't then there are other folk that are competant (experienced enough) to deliver what you need. Some are pretty talented and they can also bring a slightly different skill set to the process that may suit you, it's worth exploring... you're not being a cheepskate just sensible and thoughtful. As a point of there are also a number of folk about who started out as Structural Engineers that do the Architectural (creative) side of things and deal with the permissions and so on. The professions cross fertilize as Structural Engineering requires vision, creativity and "inventiveness" also. Design is fun, creative and rewarding. I know few Architect's who incorporate good structural design right at the concept stage as they really enjoy it, they know their stuff, just they can't bear to do the calculations and funnily enough there are a few SE's who "cross the tracks".. to the Architectural side but you get the calculations / SE design as part of the package. AG_YB all the best, try and have as much fun as you can as this will often offset the times that things get a bit stressful.

Enjoyed reading all your posts, very encouraging and refreshing. Thanks all.

Sometimes, if you have no sheeting (sarking / ply) on the top of the rafters then if the roof is fairly big you want to fix wind bracing to the underside of the rafters. If you have a roof that can say get some snow drift off a higher roof this inceases the load locally. To make this work you decrease the spacing of the trusses where the higher loads are. This way you keep the rafters the same depth and it makes it easier to fix the wind bracing as the underside of all the rafters are in the same plane.

Hello Bri. You asked me "Should I get my own surveyor out as there is a few local? " Consider this first. There is a process that developer's often follow once a dispute starts to get serious. They know that from time to time (when serious flaws are detected) often a domestic home owner will eventually engage their own professional representation, and they know that this will start to rack up your bill. They then start to communicate with your representative, in the full knowledge that you are having to foot the bill for this...the war of attrition bit. It is unlikely that they will offer to initially cover the cost for your representation, unless you get them bang to rights, even then you may need to resort to other means to recover all your costs and maybe some compensation..wishfull thinking.. but not unkown. Your representative will also look at how much you can afford and how much time you are willing to spend giving them the supplementary information and so on, such as the info you got on build hub. There is no free lunch here.. often no pro bono! It's pretty clear from the other posts that all is not as it should be. Bearing in mind that the "developer" that you are having trouble with may also be reading this. Here are a few points. As I understand the Developer sent an Engineer to have a look. Their Engineer will (hopefully) have been briefed to some extent as to the scope of what they are to look at... it's unlikely that the developer will have briefed the Engineer to look at the whole building holistically and conduct a full intrusive investigation, as they see fit. You summarise to some extent that you were told verbally.. "it won't fall down" or words to that effect. Before you start to spending your own money it's worth getting some clarification from the Developer's Engineer. Bear in mind here that they have a duty of care to the public so if you write to the Engineer and the developer directly they (the Engineer) should at least respond, even if it is just to say they have received your communcation. They (the Engineer) will probably mention confidentiality etc, but it is the acknowledgement that matters, you are establishing the chain of accountability. if they don't acknowledge then more fool them. As per my last post and to expand. Write and ask how they (the SE) have reached their conclusion that the building is structurally safe; given that there are indications that the workmanship has been shown to be poor in the places (say not compliant with the BS 8000 series of codes, Euro codes where applicable, manufacture's instructions and general good practice) that have been opened up. Ask initially; have they looked at the wall ties else where. Have they checked if the mortar is to soft / too strong elsewhere how do they know what is driving the cracking? Is mortar variation localised, or generally homogeonous. Is this mortar strength influencing the cracking? How do they know the building is not settling.. why have they ruled out precise levelling techniques to check for settlement, if so on what evidential basis. In general what evidence do they have that the walls are as per the original design intent. How do they know if the inner skin is not cracked too, are any shear ties over the inner inner skin joints (if any) intact and still functioning correctly for example.. hard to answer when it seems they have not investigated internally. How do they know how the building works structurally given that it seems to now differ from the original design.. even if they have building control record drawings. How are they confident that the "as built structure" is the same as the record drawings.. what steps did they take to check? How do they know if there are other unidentified horizontal DPCs that are not breaking the bond in the mortar bed elsewhere. Have they checked that the alterations to the roof are compatible with the original design intent. I could list more but the essence is to get the Engineer to provide written confirmation of what they have been instructed to look at and what they have not. What they have inspected and what they have not. Getting to the bottom of this is the starting point. Once you get a handle on this you can then progress to looking at the workmanship and the serviceability issues. In some ways the two go hand in hand, if the structure is not correct then that needs fixed and in doing so the serviceability issues can be resolved as you go. In other words, you want to make sure the building is safe, and in doing so you fix the other problems and concentrate the mind of the developer. It is harder to argue about structural safety rather than the insulation and so on as you can't compromise on safety. You may find that when you dig a bit their Engineer drops them like a hot potatoe! Then you ask why! In summary you have been at this a while, maybe spend a few more days, a week or two asking these questions. It may be that you get no response or some deflective answer. No matter, as it seems that you have a good bit of evidence and any answer that is not clear and concise can benefit too in the long run, although frustrating at the times. If you ask the questions and don't get a comprehensive response then you are perhaps in a stronger postion to recover your costs, not just the cost of your surveyor but the cost of an intrusive investigation. If you are going to do this then you must write to the developer and tell them you are doing this and give them the opportunity to attend etc. Also notify them that you will be seeking to recover your costs. If you get no response or some deflection then this should bolster your postion to the detriment of the developer.