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  1. Hello folks. I'm converting an old brick garage into an office. Currently I'm levelling up the brick courses, as the old (rotten) roof achieved its slope via the bricks. These slopes weren't very pretty though and I'd been informed that the correct (modern) way to achieve this slope would be through the use of firrings. Mulling it over I've been wondering if I shouldn't just cut the angle I need into the upper side of each of the rafters though, being oversized at 195mm (I couldn't source 170s at the time, that could be delivered to my area), I wondered if I could sacrifice some of that extra depth, that I don't really need, to achieve the slope instead. Just wanted to know if I might be missing something, like bowing/sag, and that it's actually a bad idea? Thanks in advance.
  2. Hello, I'm having kitchen extension built with a flat roof that will have a long 1.5m overhang. The roof will have GRP applied meaning an ugly GRP edge trim on top of the fascia. I would like the front of the roof to be completely flat like here: Is this possible without breaking any building regulations ? Any suggestions/recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
  3. Hi, We have a warm flat roof design. This is causing two issues - Cost and airtightness 1. Cost for the Bauder Thermoplan covering is coming in at just shy of £150/sq metre fitted, based on 145sq metres of roof. Considerably more than I expected. The breakdown is Flat areas £10,000 Perimeters and roof light upstands £6000 Outlets £1000 Drainage channels £4000 A couple of questions spring to mind. Are the numbers quoted online for flat roofs, for totally flat roofs and is it normal to charge for the upstand separately? In fairness the upstand is 3-400mm tall. Are drainage channels actually necessary on top of a fall in the roof? These have been specified by the architect, but I cannot find them in standard details? We have a considerable amount of this type of detail, where the gutter area is priced at over £100 per linear metre by the looks of things. 2. Airtightness. The builder has questioned how we achieve airtightness under the roof as there will be a number of penetrations through the ceiling. Spotlights, cabling and MVHR. He also asked how do we tape the airtightness membrane with nothing above it. My thinking is that either we put airtightness membrane across the joists and then create a service area below so the only penetrations are the MVHR which goes between the joists and could be taped up. The alternative is to use two layers of plasterboard with a service void as it would be easier to seal this for the MVHR penetrations and we would tape the joints and tape the wall membrane to it in the service void. Thoughts? Looks like the airtightness question came up earlier in the year but there were no responses.
  4. Not really having much information to go on when installing an ASHP on my flat roof, we decided to go ahead anyway. Questions that arose were about things like will it blow over, can the warm roof take the weight, can the warm roof take all the vibration, will it wear away the EDPM, is the condensation OK to go into the soakaway, is there much maintenance required, how heavy is the ASHP, can we get it up there, can we get the power up there, will the control cables reach where we want them, can we drill through the roof to get the pipes into the utility room without going through any services, can we waterproof the water and cable pipes to the EDPM, can the pipes be insulated. Well we couldn't find definitive answers to all these questions but we decided to do it anyway. So far, if we were to install it again, I would add to the list auto vents to both the flow and return pipes just before the ASHP as one has not been enough, and fitting later is a pain in the ... M.
  5. Hi all, New member here with a bit of an issue. My wife and I have just bought our first home and we plan on converting the garage (not standalone) into a habitable room. Unfortunately the garage has a huge bulkhead inside it which severely limits its usability. Our house is semi-detached and the neighbour’s property mirrors ours pretty much exactly - there is a shared party wall between the two garages. The house is not in a conservation or other protected area. Neither of our garages are part of the original dwelling, they were part of a front extension which was done in the 1980s. The bulkhead is a result of an unnecessarily low flat roof (only about 2.5m from the outside) which means that if we were to build up the floor of the garage to match the floor height of the rest of the first floor, there would only be about 2.1m of clearance under the bulkhead (which covers half of the room). We therefore applied for full planning permission to our local council to raise the roof to 3m but they have said they will be rejecting the application because it will cause a mismatch between our property and our neighbour’s and therefore harm the character of the street. Our neighbour has also objected to our plans about six times! We have however already got a party wall agreement in place. The council's decision is due on Monday and if, as expected, they reject our application, we plan to appeal. I know the appeal process can be very long so my question is two-fold: 1. If the council refuse our application, can we still go ahead with raising the roof height of the garage to 3m under permitted development rules? This would remove our need to appeal to the planning inspectorate. 2. If permitted development rules don't permit raising the roof height, does anyone have advice on appealing a planning decision rejected solely based on "impacting the character of the street"? Thanks, RB
  6. Hello all! I'm looking to re-felt an existing flat roof on a town house in Crawley. It hasn't been touched for a good 30 years, although it has been repaired so is leak-free. I had a telephone chat with a duty surveyor for Sussex Building Control who seemed to suggest that a building control application isn't needed This is because the deck and below isn't being replaced, only the top felt, with additional warm roof being added on top of the existing structure. Would be good to know of anyone else's experiences! Thanks. Below is a rough outline of what we are planning. * Remove all existing roof covering to bare timber deck * Apply SA bitumen primer to whole of roof * Apply first layer of torch safe vapour control layer * Fix 50 mm timber kerb around whole of outside edge * Lay 50mm flat roof insulation boards * Create new timber outlets to downpipes * Apply torch on sanded underlay * Fix 100mm GRP drip trims to outside edge * Apply Technotorch mineral capsheet to finish
  7. Looking to replace and refurbish an old flat roof. I have considered EPDM rubber rolls (Classicbond), however a roofer suggested for climates with unpredictable weather that I should consider Liquid PU or EPDM. Has anyone used this system for replacing a felt roof? I've had a look at a few vids by Steve Roofer The system looks promising, or is it too good to believe? I have come across the following products - Kemper Liquid Waterproofing - Hydrostop EU AH25 - Ecothane Liquid Rubber
  8. Hi, I live in a 1930s top floor apartment with a flat roof above me. I’ve been considering getting new double glazing but I think my main issue is the roof is really poorly insulated which means the apartment gets freezing in winter and boiling in summer(31c at 1am and 26c at 7am). Is there a specific type that works best for residential? My brief searching seems to be that it’s mostly meant for commercial use and would make my apartment look a bit office like. Not sure if battening some type of lightweight insulation board against the roof and plastering over it would be a better solution? thanks
  9. I am building a single storey building under permitted development rights and am subject to a maximum build height of 2.5m. In order to get a good ceiling height I am digging below ground. The less space I can take up in the roof construction the less I need to dig out. I would like to get a U value of 0.15 or better and am happy to have any structural beams that may be required to remain exposed rather than loose space by covering them up with plaster board, providing it meets fire regulations. The building is to be an ICF construction, 12m by 6m and will not have any internal walls to provide structural support. I currently have 2 ideas: 1 an insulated floor panel called 'themafloor' by Thermohouse which is like an insulated form that can span the 6m onto which a 100mm concrete with rebars is poured - this would give a depth of 32cm but would need a small amount of additional insulation to get to a U of 0.15 along with a waterproof topping. 2 Cold pressed steel beams that span the 6m to which are attached an insulated roof panel from somebody like Kingspan. I am assuming that the cold pressed steel beams could be left exposed but I may be wrong. Any thoughts on these options and any other ideas would be appreciated.
  10. I am building a single storey building under permitted development rights and am subject to a maximum build height of 2.5m. In order to get a good ceiling height I am digging below ground. The less space I can take up in the roof construction the less I need to dig out. I would like to get a U value of 0.15 or better and am happy to have any structural beams that may be required to remain exposed rather than loose space by covering them up with plaster board, providing it meets fire regulations. The building is to be an ICF construction, 12m by 6m and will not have any internal walls to provide structural support. I currently have 2 ideas: 1 an insulated floor panel called 'themafloor' by Thermohouse which is like an insulated form that can span the 6m onto which a 100mm concrete with rebars is poured - this would give a depth of 32cm but would need a small amount of additional insulation to get to a U of 0.15 along with a waterproof topping. 2 Cold pressed steel beams that span the 6m to which are attached an insulated roof panel from somebody like Kingspan. I am assuming that the cold pressed steel beams could be left exposed but I may be wrong. Any thoughts on these options and any other ideas would be appreciated.
  11. So.... Old roof off this week, firings sorted so our roof has a fall on it and the professionals arrived today for the GRPing, thank god it's dry. On site at the moment and just had a sneak peak. We are so pleased with this compared to previous. This is the fall, not sure how the builders are going to deal with the exposed wood yet. Credit to the guys who were on site before 8am.
  12. I had a felt flat roof replaced a few years ago by GRP. I have noticed that water is curling up behind the edge trim and round the back of the guttering onto the fascia. Some of this is making its way over the top of the fascia and into the roof structure. I think the crux of the problem maybe that the gap between the inner lip of the edge trim and the fascia is only circa 10mm. This means the gutter edge in places is mm away from the edge trim. I have removed the gutter in case it is too high and impacting the water flow, but it makes no difference. How do I solve the problem? Packing out behind the edge trim would increase the gap, but from testing it with a hose, it is not the solution as I gain maybe 7 or 8mm. Fiddly, but the best idea I have come up with is using a self adhesive flashing like AluFlash and stick it to the inside of the edge trim over the batten under the roof lip and down a portion of the fascia before trailing it in the gutter. Apart from having the edge of the roof refitted, is this my best solution or can anyone think of anything else I could do? Thanks Steve
  13. I'll start with the GRP roof but I'll dedicate this whole blog entry to which I will deem the God-awful Rubbish Period. This probably seems like I'm over exaggerating but there's just been a lot of things combined with work, personal etc and I have really been feeling the pressure. Intially, as they started laying the fabric the GRP looked OK but, despite what I would say is perfect conditions for the GRP going on from what I know through reading on here we, were appalled by the quality of the work. Without bombarding this blog with pics unless you really, really want to see them, just take my word for it, it was bad! I believe I this was subcontracted but as we have not been on site I think it's been done by the builder themselves. Needless to say I was not happy so met with the builder who muttered something about weather and acknowledged it was poor. There has been some improvement but I can't say I'm entirely happy but I believe this will be rectified, hopefully. I also raised the issue of the rooflight upstands not been GRPd to the roof and something is happening with lead flashing so I'm hoping that will be rectified too. Here is the current GRP as it stands, comments welcome because I don't know if I'm being over picky but I want to be prepared for meeting the builder this week so please give me your opinions. Roofing aside, thanks to the people that contributed to the thread on our ASHP and solar @PeterW and @ProDaveothers as I really feel I would have had a complete meltdown. For some reason the idea of fitting a PV immersion controller seemed to cause all sorts of issues and it's literally blown my mind trying to explain to people that should know more than me how to do it and what is needed. And my final rant, how is it despite giving delivery drivers instructions they still turn it in an articulated lorry the size of a double decker bus.... er no you will not that over a canal bridge! Took delivery of a bathroom suite after it was pump loaded over the bridge with the lorry blocking the farm who were not happy and finally unpacked it to find the whole lot was damaged. Can't get the same items now as they are out of stock but in some good fortune the bathroom company decided it was far too much hassle to collect them again so let us keep them and refund the money so we can flog them to try and pay for an alternate suite. We did finally get all our 12 panel GSE 3.84kw PV system and immersion controller for under £2300 which has now been delivered which is a relief. If the builders make as much of a dog's dinner of fitting this as they did of the GRP I'll have an absolute breakdown ?
  14. Ever since we moved in we have always been asked "is it two bungalows or one?" Weirdly it was designed exactly like the main picture (which was the start of our build as they were doing the footings). I think it was all a bit of a ploy. Roll back to early 70s when it was some sort of large vegetable patch. Planning permission was refused for two bungalows, various amendments and someone designed the bungalow as it is today, one bungalow suspiciously looking like two bungalows separated by a flat roof. I think they planned to build it and then attempt to get it split into two bungalows but it never happened. We have always wanted to somehow 'connect' up the roof and to be honest it's all been a bit vague on how this would be achieved. Mid build architect and builder got together, another £200 for some more beam calcs and over yesterday and today it is all looking a bit more like one bungalow. This pic is from the scaffolding and you can finally see the roof joining with the large flat roof extension. From the canal/bridge it now looks far more connected though this pic doesn't do it much justice (yesterday). And from the garden looking into our kitchen: What we really like is our ensuite, which, in the absence of any external walls will have a nice fixed rooflight on the flat roof just above our toilet/sink vanity unit which will be slightly raised from the ceiling (not the best pic).
  15. Hello, I would like some info/advice regarding a cold concrete flat roof. Sorry for the length of explanation.... But first a little background info...... The house we purchased was gutted, renovated and then sold on to us by a local building company... All certs for all upgrades and works were checked and passed.... Our problem.... 1 We moved in Sept 2107 all is fine until the first frost off this winter late 2018..when we started to notice a water stain in the rear utility ceiling (formerly downstairs rear loo and storeroom). These rooms were incorporated in to the house via the kitchen to form a utlity/cloakroom and extra kitchen space..... The roof itself is around 8 inches of concrete topped off with felt.. This was refelted just before we moved in... And the rooms below batterned, insulated, boarded, skimmed and redecorated. Oh and rads fitted. Since this watermark has appeared and got worse over the last month or two.. I cut a peice of board out, to be greated with a soaking wet inner roof, droplets everywhere.... Our problem 2.... The house is a semi formerly a council house, we have great neighbours who are council tennents... They have the same sort of rooms as us but still the original loo and store (no heat sourse).. And attached to ours So taking advise online of fitting a VCL then a thick insulation then watertight layer is not really an option without affecting the council properties roof.. So I am left with trying to sort the problem from inside.. Although there is much advice regarding how this is now not advisable.and insulating from outside is they way to go... Is there anyway I can fix this from within... I am happy to take down the internal ceiling and start again. But what would be the recommended materials etc etc.. To ensure no water ingress... You can see by the images that there is no VCL inside and the insulation is very thin and not sealed in anyway. Just placed in the roof void not a good job at all.. ... Please please any advice would be gratefully received.... Mark
  16. Hi all I am looking to have a warm flat roof done. I have a fair amount of Kingspan K103 remaining from doing my floors. My flat roof is being made so it is suitable for walking on (we will be putting a floating Trex decking system on top). I was looking to use the Kingspan K103 for the roof, I spoke to Kingspan today to ask if it would be okay to do so, they said they cant say whether or not it is because it has only been tested for floors. I would assume it would be okay as if its suitable for walking on via a floor then they same would apply on a roof. Unless there is an issue as this type of board is not foil faced, I don't have very much experience with insulation as this is my first big project so any pointers would be appreciated. I also haven't decided what would be the best roof finish before putting down the composite decking on top, every roofer seems to give conflicting advice. Thanks in advance
  17. I have an opening of 2500mm and need to ideally use a 100mmx65 concrete lintel. My concern is will it be OK if my roof joist sit directly on the lintel at 400mm centres. The length of the joists are 3300mm. Any advice will be appreciated
  18. Hi all, I've had some pretty amazing replies to previous posts and thought I'd best carry on picking your brains. Im building a garden room under the permitted development route. It's 2 skinned using concrete block. I've kept the dpc as low as possible but worrying about keeping the finished height within the 2500mm. Ive got french doors to go in that are 2130 including the cill which doesn't leave much for the flat roof. The flat roof including 100mm insulation, 2 sheets of ply, timbers to span 3400 and internal skin plus the required fall for a rubber roof. The dpc is about 120mm above ground level. Any advice would be appreciated.
  19. Attaching foil faced PIR to OSB isn't as simple as I at first thought. Rooting around on Tinternet only shows how wide the choices are: the Internet as shared ignorance perhaps? So I thought I'd ask how BH folk do it. This video is one which admits that fashions change. Roofers used to use nails, then screws then thermally broken screws and now foam - expanding foam at that. I need to attach 270 ml of PIR to my OSB deck. One layer of 120 and the second 150. How would you do it?
  20. Hi guys, thought it was about time I introduced myself after lurking in the background for the last few months absorbing as much information as I can. By way of background, I’m based on the outskirts of Belfast and been granted planning permission for a single storey flat roof extension to the side and rear of our property which will give us a new kitchen, some open plan living/dining and a utility room/garden store. We’ve employed the services of an architect to get us to building control approval stage but I’m questioning the value of taking his services forward after that. The current plan of action is once we have building control drawings and then use my wife’s QS contacts (they’re doing the work for really reasonable rates) from her old job in a Planning Consultancy and ask them the pull together a detailed specification and BOQ which will allow us to know exactly what we require when going to builders for quotes, the QS has also said they’ll evaluate the quotes to make sure we’re getting value for money. Does this sound about right to everyone or am I way off base? One other question, am I better sourcing my kitchen and widows myself as a supply and fit or is this something that I could do with my builder, just thinking they might be able to achieve so steeper discounts than little old me. Thanks for taking the time to read and reply. D
  21. Hi all, My self build is a flat roof single story L shaped bungalow. The roof is quite complex in that the L is at 110degrees not 90 and we have a wing at the front of the property that leads off the main dwelling to a garage. The total roof area is 257m2 but some of this is a overhang roof so I only need PIR insulation over 234m2 area. I've had quotes from the main tapered roof suppliers and Kingspan have come out the cheapest at £6.5k (£27.77 per m2) to achieve an average U Value of 0.17. I've then costed using 150mm Celotex PIR boards and timber firrings and this method was coming out more expensive. Has anyone had any experience of tapered PIR? They can be adhered to the OSB deck and GRP can be laid directly on the PIR boards. Seems quite a quick and simple solution and in this case cost effective. Cheers
  22. Hi All, Got a question I'm struggling to find an answer too... I have a flat roof (warm construction) so all the insulation is on top of joists/rafters (never know which term to use for flat roofs!). The space under the flat roof is divided into a 2 rooms by a timber stud wall. As I understand things the space between the joists is left as a void as insulation is above this so to avoid condensation issues. One of these rooms is our utility room with washing machine/tumber drier in it, which seem to be on almost constantly! The question I have is can I pack out the void with acoustic insulation above where the stud wall meets the ceiling? I'm insulating the wall but am concerned that at the ceiling there's nothing to stop the sound travelling between rooms over the wall other than plaster board. We've switched some rooms around and the room next to the laundry is now going to be my office so want it as sound proofed as possible. For info the stud wall, whilst running parallel to joists doesn't come up directly under a joist so has a number of noggins running perpendicular to it that it is going use as fixing points. Joists are at 400mm centres. What I was think was just filling that space between these 2 joists with acoustic insulation so that there is some soundproofing above and to either side in the ceiling above the stud wall. Anyone see any issue with this? and should I leave air gap above the insulation or completely fill void (joists 200mm deep)? Thanks A.
  23. The only job for the VCL in a warm flat roof is to prevent water vapour condensing inside the insulation layer isn't it? Maybe it would be better to say .... condensing on any suitable surface above the VCL. Should, therefore, the VCL extend up the sides of the PIR insulation (as well as underneath it) ?
  24. Weebles

    Roofing a flat roof

    Our flat roof guys have been great. Though they worked very short hours compared to MBC (doesn't everyone). With a flat roof you apparently need at least 18mm OSB to lay the roof membrane onto. The standard MBC spec is less than that for a flat roof so we had to stump up some money to upgrade the roof deck to 18mm. We have three different roof decks. Here is one roof deck with the roof lights (more on those in a separate post one day). The upper roof deck And a view of the lower roof deck and garage Some lessons learned: OSB is not weather proof despite assurances from MBC that it would be OK. It holds out for a short time and then water floods through the joins. It was a pretty sunny summer. But the downpours were bad. Wish we had plastic sheeted the whole roof. To be fair to MBC, the house is fine (as they said it would be) despite being flooded more than twice. However, the stress for us, and the clearing up, could have easily been avoided. We insect meshed all the gaps before the roofers started. The parapets are edged with this smart design. We drilled some drainage holes through the parapet walls for the roof drains. Burned out the drill. Got that as a wedding gift 18 years ago so him indoors was delighted to upgrade. This is the membrane going down, on a felt underlayer. And the finished look (though the front of the garage isn't finished and can't be until the render is done). Learned from the building inspector that we don't have a high enough upstand on this roof / door combination so it will likely not get included in our warranty. That was news to us and is one of the issues caused by not keeping on our architect. We have definitely missed stuff like this so could have probably avoided a few problems. So that's it. Probably one of the easiest bits of the build so far. However, we still made some cock ups like not allowing enough space to fit a window into an L shaped corner area. This is the view from above and the window has to sit on the OSB bit. Unfortunately that bit of roof sticks out a bit far. We had to trim it on site and the roofer guys are going to come back and fix it another day....... A big lesson for us has been the ability to fix things on site. Doesn't stop me losing sleep over them, but I think I am losing less sleep than I was over the "problems".
  25. After much research we now know our flat roof can only be built using shaped insulation. And elbow grease. '... Much research.... ' disguises a long , nitty gritty detail process, much head and withers scratching. However, good progress towards conscious incompetence has been made. Not bad when you consider I started out unconsciously incompetent. Help me on my journey please.... One quote shows that, to create the fall, some of the PIR panels will be cut to shape by the producer - here's the twist we have to cut about 8 sheets to shape. Calamity, calamity. Just a simple wedge of cheese shape, but still currently - without a mountain of waste PIR - beyond me . Ah the joys of DIY eh? I know now that if I stick at this little sod of a challenge, I'll get there..... The lovely old guy who daily walks past our place -facing the friendly overtures of our fearless tom cat- says I should hot wire it. Memories of modelling glider wings Anyone done this before?
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