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  1. Ater a good dicussion with a local plumber it is pretty certain that we will be putting 2 ashp systems in to supply 2 zones, but they will both be in one area next to one plant room. The idea is that 1 big pump (15kW)would be working very hard, whereas 2 x 10 would be coasting and much more efficient. Therefore the feed from the plantroom will need long distribution pipes to the manifold. Ground floor concrete with ufh. Partial First floor is largely in the roof space with timber floor and will be big rads. There will be a convenient void between low walls and the outer wall, through which services can run, and we can insulate inside the stone wall. I think we must take the feed pipe to the first floor so that it can be insulated or we will lose too much heat in transit in the concrete floor. Is it normal or wise to use the specialist insulated pipes, or simply to use normal pipe then pipe-wrap (the superior one) then also wrap in mineral wool. This looks great but is £50/m, and it might be difficult to get round corners. Have used it previously outside from distant ashp to building but is it too much for inside? .
  2. There have been lots of discussions about the effectiveness and efficiency of an ASHP and so I am keeping basic records. I have my own electric meter on the supply to the ASHP so I know how much power has been used whether from the mains or the PV. The result so far using the ASHP installed is 123 kWhs have been supplied to the ASHP from Jan 1 to Jan the 21st to heat the building and hot water. As it is difficult to split the power used for hot water (and we have an immersion using the excess PV power on the hot water tank) from the power used for heating if we assume all of this power was used for heating that would equate to an average of roughly 2.6 Watts an hour per m2 of floor over the 20 days. Normal living with 2 people, showers, average 20C inside all day. Last night -2C outside some of the time. Used in the last 24 hours: 12kWh's. Whilst we are happy with the results now being obtained, I would like to point out that the results were completely different when we installed the ASHP, when the very thick lagging was missing and we were using it like a boiler! Good luck with your endeavours. M
  3. I moved into a 4-bed dormer bungalow (176m2) last summer that had just been gutted, extended and completely renovated, including ASHP for the DHW and UFH. The ASHP is a Nibe F2040-8 (8kW). The UFH is in screed downstairs and on aluminium trays in the suspended floor upstairs (both with 200mm pipe spacing). There is no buffer tank, although there is a volumizer unit. Room temps are set to 18C for bedrooms and 20C for the kitchen/lounge etc (no night-time setback). The UFH downstairs can maintain target room temps with a flow temp of 25-35C. However, the upstairs seems to need a higher flow temp of ~45C to maintain target room temps. The problem with this is that when the outside temp falls below 5C, the ASHP continually defrosts and is unable to deliver a flow temperature >30C (i.e. the opposite of the intended weather effect compensation!). I have attached some screenshots of plots from my Nibe Uplink – the first is when the outdoor temp was ~10C, which shows the flow and return temps oscillating around the target flow temp (which is what I would expect to see) and the other shows the same plot when the outdoor temp is ~2C. In the latter plot, the pump is defrosting so frequently that the flow temp never achieves its target, resulting in high electricity consumption (>£200 p/m), a really noisy pump, angry neighbours, and room temps <18C upstairs. The installer is refusing to investigate this problem and Nibe will only interact with installers. Q: is the impact of the defrosting cycles what you would expect for an ASHP at <10C? If not, any thoughts on the underlying cause – insufficient pump size? Lack of a buffer tank in the design? Anything else you can think of that might cause this…? Looking forward to your expert input and happy to provide any additional details that might be helpful.
  4. Well the combo is coming together and my wife insists that I make the controls as clear as possible "in case your not here". I wondering what she means. Still a lot to do though..
  5. I'm having a number of problems with a shiney new Daikin Altherma 3 installed in September (COP down at 2.5 already with intended SCOP of 3.7; radiators cold at the bottom hot at the top; system pressure keeps dropping). I've emailed the installers a couple of times and got no reply, so this week I'm going to start phoning them up. So I don't get fobbed off I'd appreciate some advice on three things. 1. There's a red expansion vessel, and a white Zilmet VSG Solar temperature reducing vessel (pictured). It looks like all the CH and HW is passing through the Zilmet. It is in the loft and permanently warm so I was thinking I should insulate it. From reading up it looks like this is designed to limit the heat from solar thermal, which can be as hot as 90C. But I don't have solar thermal and no intention of getting it. I have CH running at 45C and hot water around 50C, once a week 60C for the legionaries program. So isn't this thing just wasting heat as it's in the loft, not living space? Is the effect any different from leaving some pipes without lagging or could it actually have a useful purpose? Rather than me insulating it I think they should just take it out. 2. Part of the install was a brand new 125L indirect HW cylinder. From the max temp of 54C, it will drop to 44C within 24 hours, even if I avoid turning on any hot water taps all day. Is that heat loss normal? I thought modern cylinders were only supposed to lose 1-2% heat per day? 3. I have had to refill fill the system several times, because pressure drops from 1 bar to 0.2 bar within a week. I can't find any leaks from the radiators or pipework. So I guess the pressure dropping might be an expansion vessel problem? One thing I don't need guidance on though is whether they've put the unit too close to the walls. The Daikin installation manual says this outdoor unit should have at least 250mm clear at the back and side. It's been installed with 140mm and 160mm, so I am going to insist they move it, and will complain through MCS if they refuse. Lack of airflow has got to be contributing to poor COP. Thanks for thoughts on the above.
  6. Good morning all. This is my first post so please point me in the right direction if I've posted in the wrong place, asked a question that's already been covered or broken the forum rules. I bought my house around 5 years ago and I have slowly been renovating it ever since. About 3 years ago I had an Air Source Heat Pump installed, as we have no mains gas and at the time, the RHI was generous (it paid for the system). Last winter I picked up an absolute bargain of 4kw solar panels with an inverter for £400. I installed it myself and I am mostly happy with it. Since then I have changed the inverter so I can connect via bluetooth. Recently i have had a smart meter fitted.......... Now that I have the smart meter fitted I can see exactly what the power I'm sending back down into the grid. Actually, I knew this before, but its different when you can see the display 'laughing' at me!!! After the install, I did contact an MSC company and ask them if they would inspect and certificate. They told me, that it was virtually impossible for them to do this as they had to provide proof of where the panels came from. In any case, they said I'd only get about £60 a year back from the one or two electrical suppliers that offer a feed in tarrif (5.5p per KW). So......I was thinking, there must be a smarter way of using my solar and ASHP. I have my heat pump set for 21degrees in the morning and evening and all other times it's set to 18 degrees. There is an 3kw immersion in the tank, but it's only used to prevent legionnaires disease. When the heat pump is on it draws around 1.5 kw. At the moment, the heat pump thermostat/programmer is not wireless and I am not able to connect to it via bluetooth. I was thinking that maybe if the sun was shining during the day and producing over 2kw I could somehow activate the heating to go up to 24 degrees. This would warm the house during the day and therefore require less heating after the sun sets. Obviously, I would need some kind of app or software to run this. My ASHP is a Mitsubishi Ecodan and my inverter is an SMA. Thanks in advance for your replies, Nathan.
  7. Based on info on Buildhub I estimated a 15kW ashp, but a local specialist says it is not enough. Also the floor arrangement requires a secondary feed and manifold to reach the distances. The building will be in the form of a main building and an annex (for us old ones and b&b). Plans below shows the layout, with central courtyard. All the GF to be ufh. The upper areas (front and left wings in roof) to be radiator (headroom is tight). Outside is 21 x 19, inside 18 x 16 approx. Insulation will be very good, to new-build targets, although some trading off for practicality (esp headroom at existing doors), so the floor will be 125 to 150 PIR. Our thoughts are as follows. 1. 2 pumps needed so do they both feed the one plant room or 1 for main build and 1 for annex? 2. If the former, do they work in tandem or split to space heating and water heating? 3. Split the load as 2 identical pumps sharing the load, or large and small? 4. Best to have 2 water tanks anyway, for volume and to avoid arguments between the 2 spaces? 270m2 GIA ground floor, 110m2 upper floor. The plant room is shown, to the left next to the stairs. There is a roof void at bottom right that could house more plant. BTW the current favourite installer seems good, but it is early days and I like to understand and question. Any comments welcome, not just as my 1-4.
  8. The general view on this forum appears to be that GSHP and ASHP with UFH should in the ideal conditions be on for most of the time and the room temps set to the required level and not changed. While I understsand the processes and calculations involved in heat transfer and heat loss and the time taken to heat a room with low and slow as opposed to high and quick, what I am failing to understand is why I have been sold as "Ideal for control" for my GSHP supplied UFH a set of expensive all singing thermostats with internet connection that I can set any range of setting from anywhere in the world. When the companies commissioning process recomends all the features are turned off and reduced to a basic stat setting am I correct in thinking I have been ripped off?
  9. Hi - got my ecodan R32 installed in October and it's been purring away ever since quite nicely. This morning, in Edinburgh anyway, it was near on 0 degrees and there was a noticeably louder noise coming from he unit, as if the fans were spinning much faster etc. I gather it's normal for an ASHP to work harder, and therefore be noisier, when it's cold? When the manufacturer publishes its decibel rating, is it best case or worst case - i.e. on a lovely summers day when doing a DHW top up or at -5 degrees in winter? Thank you in advance!
  10. @Iceverge recently pointed to@TerryE 's blog "Heating the Slab- an overview" which made me think. TerryE has a concrete floor that he is using as a giant heat sump, heating up overnight with the warmth slowly emitting from the floor during the day. Such a simple design when the maths is right! @SteamyTea pointed to a report about boilers and ASHP's which had various recommendations. Having installed an electric meter for the ASHP the effect of changes can be measured on the amount of power used during similar weather days. Also having used bottle gas for 3 years there are records of how much energy was used before the ASHP was installed for heating and hot water combined. So I've decided to try various changes to see what energy efficient improvements can be made. When using the inverter ASHP the heating temperature was set at 35 degrees as apposed to 50 and this kept the home warm enough and used less power. (During mild days) The report recommended having buffer tanks in certain installation. Ours was one of them because we have thermostatic radiator valves (TVRs) so I was glad I took the manufacturers advice on having a buffer tank. Another item was the relatively high thermal loss from both a hot water tank and a buffer tank. The existing design is being upgraded at present with additional insulation to both tanks. The 28mm pipes from the ASHP to the tanks has been additionally insulated. The 35C heating water temperature was a little low so now using the ASHP's most economical setting which adjusts the temp related to the outside temperature. So it's currently running at 40C whilst outside is about 10C. The temperature setting rises 2 degrees over 40C before stopping and I have adjusted the starting temperature down to 7 degrees below. This has made the heating cycle last over 10 minutes which is what the report recommended. The controls will be altered to make the ASHP go into heating off mode between cycles ( I think that's right. It's not off, off. Just off.), and various other controls will be added to manage the cooling aspect of the system, hopefully. As for results it's very difficult to state anything precise because of the mass of variables: Going round the bungalow there are many heat contributors, including cooking, hot water tanks, fridges/freezers, the sun 🌞 through the windows, people, washing machines and so on. Also it's not as obvious where the heat is coming from because the MVHR runs the warmth through the building. I am of the opinion that almost all electrical energy used in the building is converted into heat one way or another. I will start logging results once all the alterations are complete. Good luck with your project. Marvin.
  11. Not really having much information to go on when installing an ASHP on my flat roof, we decided to go ahead anyway. Questions that arose were about things like will it blow over, can the warm roof take the weight, can the warm roof take all the vibration, will it wear away the EDPM, is the condensation OK to go into the soakaway, is there much maintenance required, how heavy is the ASHP, can we get it up there, can we get the power up there, will the control cables reach where we want them, can we drill through the roof to get the pipes into the utility room without going through any services, can we waterproof the water and cable pipes to the EDPM, can the pipes be insulated. Well we couldn't find definitive answers to all these questions but we decided to do it anyway. So far, if we were to install it again, I would add to the list auto vents to both the flow and return pipes just before the ASHP as one has not been enough, and fitting later is a pain in the ... M.
  12. We don't have a big information system on our ASHP. I decided just to add electric meters as a way of seeing what is going on. Our home is just about 100m2 floor plan bungalow. Decided to run the water coils in the MVHR ducts just to draw out any air. Left them on by mistake until we realised we were too hot but all the radiators were off! After this I fiddled with the ASHP heating temperature. Decided to set the ASHP heating water temp to 31C last evening for the hell of it. Last night's outside temperature was about 8 degrees. Got up this morning it was 20.5 in the bungalow. Running an ASHP system is very different from a gas boiler! Is it ok to run the ASHP at 31C? Presently I am finishing off the insulation in the loft and working on finishing all the pipe and duct insulation. Once done I am going to record the results of the MVHR efficiency. Once this is done I am going to record the effect the coils are having on the inlet air temperature. Good luck with your project M
  13. The holistic set I am installing is: ASHP main parts: : Air to water Cool Energy inverTech Air Source Heat Pump CE-iVT9 4.3kW-9.5kW Cool Energy 60L Stainless Buffer Tank CE-B60 MVHR main parts: Domus HRX2-D Heat recovery System with "summer bypass" 125mm and 150mm rigid circular ducting and Domus duct insulation. Electricity Generation main parts: PV Sofar Solar Grid Tied Inverter 6KTLM-G2 16 Longi 320W Mono Solar Panels CT clamp to limit power generation into grid. HOT Water system: 206 litre indirect hot water cylinder. 1kW by 27 inch 240 volt immersion heater Pump to showers Heating system: Panel radiators and two CWH 160-3 VentMatika Circular duct water heaters in the MVHR ducting. Cooling system: Two CWH 160-3 VentMatika Circular duct water heaters in the MVHR ducting. EV charging point: 13 amp plug-in point direct to ring main 13amp plug-in point controlled by PV production via CT clamp. Controls: Dampers to the MVHR. water flow sensors CT clamps
  14. Hi! We're buying a 1970's-built 3-bed detached chalet-style house in Bedfordshire. Apart from a lick of paint and a recent bathroom, it's pretty much unchanged since built: Gas warm-air heating (ducts, and lots of 'em) with electric immersion heater for hot water Parquet floors to lounge, hallway and dining room which needs resanding, filling and sealing (plus filling the gaps left when we remove the warm-air heating outlets) 1970s kitchen, including sliding-door cabinets! Our aspirations are: Immediate - Convert current tiny utility and the end of the double-length garage into a new dining area flowing off the kitchen, plus new utility and (probably) downstairs shower room Immediate - Roof lantern and bi-fold doors onto garden in new dining area Immediate - Replace warm-air heating, ideally with something more environmentally friendly Medium term - New kitchen (self-fitted) Long term - Replace tiling on gable ends with cladding (possibly cement board e.g. Marley Eternit) Challenges are: Three-gabled (T-shaped) chalet roof limits possibilities upstairs unless we put in dormers (which we don't have budget for and which would be tricky anyway due to multiple gables) No space to add a shower to upstairs bathroom unless we make the small bedroom smaller and so thinking of downstairs shower Existing ground-floor spaces are concrete floor with no inbuilt insulation Garage floor is about 6" lower and so when we raise floor we'll have to raise the roof too Extending heating to the converted area of the garage - warm-air ducts can't be extended (and we don't think we're fans of it anyway), so thinking of wet under-floor heating in conversion and replacing heating in rest of building with traditional wet rads Asbestos throughout (we've had a specialist survey) including soffits, boiler flue, roof tile underboard, boiler cupboard door, utility ceiling, Marley vinyl floor tiles in kitchen (only the last three of these areas are likely to be touched though) Budget for immediate stuff is £30k. Conversion could be £20k, leaving only £10k for heating changes. Looking for: Bright ideas on heating. Keen on ASHP but as we need new rads could be beyond our budget. Might have to settle for modern combi-boiler Any genius insight or pointers to existing posts on any of the above!
  15. Hi New here. I have an ongoing question with my house builder on what size of ASHP they put in. It is a Daikin Altherma Low Temperature Split. I need an 8kwh unit and the same houses as mine have that. My unit has never had a data badge on it and it has always struggled when cold to heat the house. My question is, whether there is any way of proving what kWh unit I actually have? House builder says definitely 8 but Daikin confirm my indoor unit was sold with a 6kWh pump, which doesn’t necessarily mean that’s what I have. If I can prove one way or another what size it is then I can at least challenge them further. Any help appreciated. Thanks
  16. Hello, I am in the process of replacing the LPG tank in my property with an ASHP (Mitsubishi Ecodan 14kW). I currently have 2 solar thermal panels which cover all hot water demand for 5-6 months in a year (and I'm planning to keep them). It has been really difficult for me to find a suitable DHW cylinder that (in my limited understanding) would work well with ASHPs and solar thermal panels. Even harder to find options where I'd be able to monitor water temperature at different heights. Ah - the cylinder volume should be 250 litres. I really like the idea of Mixergy tanks because of volumetric heating, the plate heat exchanger (more efficient), the diffusers (for better stratification) and all the data I can get from the tank. However, they are very expensive and, for the ASHP+solar thermal versions, I cannot do volumetric heating (I've been told so by Mixergy). More annoyingly, it seems there is no dedicated solar volume, so it'd be hard to make the most of the already installed solar thermal panels if I want hot water in the morning. The pre-plumbed Mitsubishi cylinder ticked a lot of boxes, but it has 3 pumps and my installer warned me of audible noise (the cylinder is to be installed in a bedroom cupboard). It's also very expensive. I looked at options from Gledhill, Joule, Kingspan, Heatrae Sadia, ... and neither of them looked perfect. Yes, I am likely overthinking here, but would anyone have any advice or experience they could share with me? I haven't ruled out any options yet. Thanks a lot!
  17. When balancing my radiators using water from the ASHP, set at 40C, what temperature difference should I expect across the radiator when aiming for a room temperature of 21C? Is 11 degrees too much?
  18. Hi, My house I brought is 1920's and previous owner fitted ASHP air system only for heating. Now house insulation is poor so why it was fitted I do not know but this was around 10 years ago. My question is in my loft the ducting runs all over, is insulated. But the actual loft insulation is very poor. Can loft insulation be laid over the insulated ducting, or would this cause potential condensation issues?. Any help would be really appreciated.
  19. Hi ashp, mvhr, pv, ev and duct water coils. I am just starting to bring all the above elements together in our bungalow and wanted to run the works on a blog on Buildhub. In order to show my appreciation of this site I have funded buildhub and PMed @newhome as requested. I have also PMed @BuildHub to ask about setting up a blog. I hope that the volenteers on buildhub will be able to help find the time so I can document what I'm doing. Also as I go I hope that feed back from the members will help me when I struggle. Here's where I am at present: Marvin
  20. Hi all, We are having some problems with a new Ecodan install and with the heating now on it's clear that it's not performing as expected. I want to check I'm on the right tracks before going to the installer and getting another TADTS type response. 8.5kw Ecodan serving two UFH manifolds: GF - set in flow screed approx 70sqm, 4 zones FF - grooved overlay panels (12mm pipe), 70sqm, 3 zones. When there is a call for heat everything fires up as expected. However if only a couple of zones are calling for heat it will run for just a few minutes before switching off. Not just the compressor cycling on/off but also the heating pump (I would have thought with short cycling that the pump would continue to run and just cycle the compressor on/off depending on return temps?). It then sits dormant for a good 15 minutes before repeating. It often won't run long enough for the UFH return loop to even become warm. I can see from the thermistor readings that the return temp matches the flow within a few minutes. I expect the problem is exacerbated by the small-ish 12mm pipes on the first floor as the flow through these must be tiny compared to the flow from the heat pump. I think we might have a minimum volume problem and/or a flow rate problem. Can anyone confirm if that sounds right and what the correct solution would be? Many thanks, Olly
  21. Just wondered if anyone has experience of running an ASHP using the cheaper rate economy 7 tariff and whether it makes any real difference in running costs. I seem to remember that you have to pay a slightly higher day rate if you have E7, and that, coupled with the fact that the ASHP would be running at night when it might be cheaper but also colder would seem to maybe cancel any financial benefit. Also, it seems that running an ASHP 24/7 makes better sense and it's unlikely to be able to run an ASHP on normal rate during the day and E7 at night. Thanks in advance to anyone who can shed some light on my ignorance!
  22. I’m new to this forum and any help would be most appreciated. I’ve got a 8 year old Kingspan Aeromax ASHP which provides hot water and central heating via radiators with no underfloor heating. The system has stopped producing hot water/central heating. Initially I thought it might be an air lock or blockage as the unit starts up fine, the central heating pump kicks in but no heat coming from the rads. I bled the radiators and cleaned out the large brass in-line filter near the pump but still with no joy. The really strange thing is that instead of the rads heating they get ice cold, so much so that condensation appears on them and the pipes. It seems as if the system is working in reverse by cooling and not heating?!! An error message did appear once on the panel which was code 15 which is exit water thermistor out of range but it only did it once but assume this is due to the cold water temperature? Any ideas what the issue is before I have to shell out of a new unit. Thanks
  23. Hello - Asking for a friend - no, seriously🤣 I am. He has contacted me as he is becoming concerned about the high amount of electricity he seems to be using on a monthly basis. I have asked him for more details but at the moment he says he has an ASHP and a Hot Tub. Does anyone have any experiences at this stage of the two being run and resulting in high levels of energy usage? Last month he used 819kwh and already this month he has used 253kwh. There is only him and his wife at home!! Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks in advance.
  24. I'm trying to figure out what size Mibec twin wall insulated pipe to install as part of the groundworks before I've actually chosen an ASHP or had a proper design. First budget design suggested a 12kw ASHP would be required for UFH (approx 120m2 floor area) and DHW. Pump will be positioned about 10m away from the house and advice elsewhere on here suggested Mibec twin insulated pipe seems are the way to go. But should I allow for 25mm or 32mm pipes to connect from ASHP to the manifold inside the house? Any advice much appreciated.
  25. Hi, I live in Harrogate, North Yorkshire. My interest in these forums is the wealth of knowledge that I can see here specifically regarding Air Source Heat Pumps. I have an interest in some DIY - just lightweight really, however, my real focus is in green energy. We had PV Panels installed around 6 years ago now - 6Kw SolarEdge system located on three aspects of the house - E, S & W, combined with the SolarEdge Optimisers this gives us what appears to be a optimal install given the actual location of the house. In addition, we replaced our ageing gas boiler with a LG Therma V 9Kw R32 Split unit at the beginning of last year. At the moment I am looking at the last years running costs and wondering if the unit has been setup correctly. I'm not entirely convinced that any setup was done by the installer at the time. I look forward to reading more of this forum and chatting with other members! Andrew