zoothorn Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, joe90 said: There you go again, making assumptions that are not correct, I think you are a “twit” and left it to others to decide what they want to call you. I have made no wild conclusions, it’s you that is asking fir advise on a subject that you know very little about and when generous people here that know far more than you try to help, you challenge them on every level. You called me a @@@@ joe, then advised it might start with a 'c' ffs. not much room for any assumption. Just grow up- don't call people vile names, on any forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 4 hours ago, PeterW said: When there are going to be issues with red bleeding I tend to recommend these HV30 Aladdin Self Bleeding Automatic Radiator Valve 1/2" BSP Single Valve https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B019395RHY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_jFQcGbVSGWHJH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 Ok thanks Peter, I'll determine if they need bleeding/ or try Onoff's one. Its a worthwhile idea.. tho I'm a bit amazed its only just been thought of/ my fault maybe. And really appreciate the vaillant diagram- no idea how you determined a pipe from b or where info from, but grateful for effort there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, zoothorn said: You called me a @@@@ joe, then advised it might start with a 'c' ffs. not much room for any assumption. Just grow up- don't call people vile names, on any forum. No he didn't, it was me...twice now...3rd time pending! ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Ok thanks Peter, I'll determine if they need bleeding/ or try Onoff's one. Its a worthwhile idea.. tho I'm a bit amazed its only just been thought of/ my fault maybe. And really appreciate the vaillant diagram- no idea how you determined a pipe from b or where info from, but grateful for effort there. Stop going on about it, you were told in November about bleeding radiators and you replied to that person, so 2 months ago!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 24 minutes ago, Declan52 said: You can get single double or even triple rads or if you can't go out sideways floor to ceiling size. There is a multitude of different options available. The installer or who ever done the survey should have worked it all out. They measure your room length and width and height and work out rough heat loss calculations and get a figure. They then pick a rad that can produce more heat than your room can lose. Otherwise you end up with a cold room no matter how long the heading is on. Yup understood. But if they did this in summer, & after the surveyor came & ticked the 'normal insulation' box for all my rooms, then they'll just likely have put in 'normally sized rads' for the system. I cannot have expected, with a foc system, the most thouragh survey. I can't say to them "feels like fk all insulation.. please put in behemoth rads!!" I had no input esp foc. Ok look if I put on my big oil leccy rad in kitchen too, surely -at least if not morely- equating to the bigger rad you say should be in here.. If it heats the room, you are right/ the install is wrong.. if it doesn't then I'm right/ the install is correct (& its purely this ungodly cold house's fault- not the install). Is that a reasonable test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (expletive deleted)ing hell... this is the funniest threads I have read in a long time. @zoothorn there is a list of info needed to take this forward (assuming it isn’t just bleed the rads that magically fixes everything) : 1) list of rooms, with dimensions (H x L x W) 2) flow and return temps for the ASHP (whilst thermostat is calling for heat - but after it’s been running a while so it gets up to temp - at least an hour) 3) dimensions of radiators in each room (stating which room they are in) 4) flow and return temps for all radiators whilst the thermostat is constantly calling for heat (and ASHP has been running for a while). Please please please list these all out clearly in one place / post. Then the people who know can do the necessary calcs and advise what to do to fix it. As a side point, a few pages back you said that the flow and return temps kept fluctuating quite a bit. I wonder if the ASHP was going into defrost mode? It was on a wet and cold day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Is that a reasonable test? If the rad is really undersized, how do you kow that the rad + oilfilled heater really *is* enough heat for the room? Just do the measuring we're asking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 47 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Put in 2 smaller rads.. yes good suggestion in kitchen, not one I was offered, but as it's foc I'd not expect them to have tho, I don't think what do you think? I just can't put 2 in bathroom (1x bath length x same wide). You’re really not listening or reading what people are saying. How big is the kitchen radiator ..?? Measurements - length x width in mm please. And is it double panel, or does it have double panel with one or two sets of fins / vanes / wiggly metal things in between the panels ..? They have to install a system that is fit for purpose. It is why they get paid to do it, because the should know what they are doing. My (personal / professional / idiot ) view is they are going round installing the easiest for them as they most likely get paid per install, not the number of days. So they maximize profit by paying barely qualified apes to do the install on minimum wage, and this is the result. And you, or Mrs Miggins at No.34, or anyone else gets a piss poor install and this is the result. In the meantime, those who know how it should be done get told there’s nothing wrong with the install .... I daren’t ask if you’ve got the Benchmark book for the cylinder and if it’s been filled in .... ??♂️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 This thread astounds me. Members' collective appetite for unwarranted punishment still matches the OP's capacity dish it out. Astounding. Everyone else I know would have had to wash their hair or defrag their hard disk by now. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 'Normal" insulation... The surveyor one assumes was from the crowd who put the kit in? At best he'll have looked up in any loft you have, seen "insulation" and ticked "normal". It's a box ticking exercise. The fact it's not maybe tucked in properly at the eaves or a bit patchy won't matter a jot. Your sort of install for these firms is g'teed money in the bank, through the RHI they get. They should do it to a standard but I bet you'll be lucky if they do. The best job is often the one you do yourself as you found re-doing your loft supposedly built to regs. Surely you may think there's some official scrutiny of how these firms work? On paper maybe. For everyone who complains there's 100s who don't. The installer could fold only to spring up again when yet another Government grant scheme is rolled out. To think I turned down the 19 year old babysitter and her lesbian BFF last night, all to go into the shed and look for a radiator key for you! Do your bit and help everyone here diagnose what you have and if possible make it better. Edited January 22, 2021 by Onoff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 It matters jack shat that it was free of charge to you. The bill would have been sent to some one in charge of this scheme to sign off to be seen as everything was done to the correct standard. Yours wasn't. How can you let people into survey an old cottage and they don't take into account that there is little to no insulation installed. It's their job to take everything into account and go either yes this new system is capable of heating this property or it's a no sorry sir but unless you vastly improve the insulation and lower your heart loss figures then it would never heat your house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 52 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: This thread astounds me. Members' collective appetite for unwarranted punishment still matches the OP's capacity dish it out. Astounding. Everyone else I know would have had to wash their hair or defrag their hard disk by now. Or bled a radiator. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 48 minutes ago, Declan52 said: It matters jack shat that it was free of charge to you. The bill would have been sent to some one in charge of this scheme to sign off to be seen as everything was done to the correct standard. Yours wasn't. How can you let people into survey an old cottage and they don't take into account that there is little to no insulation installed. It's their job to take everything into account and go either yes this new system is capable of heating this property or it's a no sorry sir but unless you vastly improve the insulation and lower your heart loss figures then it would never heat your house. there is an echo here........how many pages ago did I say that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, joe90 said: The bill would have been sent to some one in charge of this scheme And as a government funded scheme WE, the tax payers are all Paying for a shite job!. Edited January 22, 2021 by joe90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Has a sacrifice to appease the Heating Gods been explored yet? Maybe next thing to look at after bleeding the rads. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, PeterW said: You’re really not listening or reading what people are saying. How big is the kitchen radiator ..?? Measurements - length x width in mm please. And is it double panel, or does it have double panel with one or two sets of fins / vanes / wiggly metal things in between the panels ..? They have to install a system that is fit for purpose. It is why they get paid to do it, because the should know what they are doing. My (personal / professional / idiot ) view is they are going round installing the easiest for them as they most likely get paid per install, not the number of days. So they maximize profit by paying barely qualified apes to do the install on minimum wage, and this is the result. And you, or Mrs Miggins at No.34, or anyone else gets a piss poor install and this is the result. In the meantime, those who know how it should be done get told there’s nothing wrong with the install .... I daren’t ask if you’ve got the Benchmark book for the cylinder and if it’s been filled in .... ??♂️ So why does mrs miggins coo away 'ooh its warm, lovely? No your view is set in stone that its a bunch of apes easiest job etc, but bar the leak I actually think the installers are the ones who've done the ok job, & after 5 hardware faults bits replaced, 8x visits, still not sorted, that it's Vaillant solely who have produced pap hardware to blame for 7.55am all cold rads since 6.30am, & for my swearing at 3am at the fkn heating coming on 2*C before my setback temp even reached. But you stick up for this rotten hardware (even today saying it's coming on 3am 'correctly' to offset my kitchen & bathroom rads, bewildering enough) & point only at the installers to blame. So it's just very odd we can be at such opposites, poles apart on this I must say. Cylinder benchmark whanot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, joe90 said: there is an echo here........how many pages ago did I say that ? Hello....... Hello...... Hello..... Is..... There..... Any..... One..... Out..... There.... there....there 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Gav_P said: (expletive deleted)ing hell... this is the funniest threads I have read in a long time. @zoothorn there is a list of info needed to take this forward (assuming it isn’t just bleed the rads that magically fixes everything) : 1) list of rooms, with dimensions (H x L x W) 2) flow and return temps for the ASHP (whilst thermostat is calling for heat - but after it’s been running a while so it gets up to temp - at least an hour) 3) dimensions of radiators in each room (stating which room they are in) 4) flow and return temps for all radiators whilst the thermostat is constantly calling for heat (and ASHP has been running for a while). Please please please list these all out clearly in one place / post. Then the people who know can do the necessary calcs and advise what to do to fix it. As a side point, a few pages back you said that the flow and return temps kept fluctuating quite a bit. I wonder if the ASHP was going into defrost mode? It was on a wet and cold day. I’m gonna keep reposting this daily now, so it keeps on top of the pile of rants and arguments. We all need this to move forward! The entirety of buildhub needs this resolved so we call move on with our lives! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Anyone want to buy any walk on glazing ? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozza Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Keep you in the dark You know they all pretend Keep you in the dark And so it all began Send in your skeletons Sing as their bones go marching in again They need you buried deep The secrets that you keep are ever ready Are you ready? I'm finished making sense Done pleading ignorance That old defense Spinning infinity, boy The wheel is spinning me It's never-ending, never-ending Same old story What if I say I'm not like the others? What if I say I'm not just another one of your plays? You're the pretender What if I say I will never surrender? What if I say I'm not like the others? What if I say I'm not just another one of your plays? You're the pretender What if I say that I never surrender? In time, or so I'm told, I'm just another soul for sale, oh well The page is out of print We are not permanent We're temporary, temporary Same old story What if I say I'm not like the others? What if I say I'm not just another one of your plays? You're the pretender What if I say I will never surrender? What if I say I'm not like the others? What if I say I'm not just another one of your plays? You're the pretender What if I say I will never surrender? I'm the voice inside your head you refuse to hear I'm the face that you have to face mirrorin' your stare I'm what's left; I'm what's right; I'm the enemy I'm the hand that'll take you down and bring you to your knees So, who are you? Yeah, who are you? Yeah, who are you? Yeah, who are you? Keep you in the dark You know they all pretend What if I say I'm not like the others? What if I say I'm not just another one of your plays? You're the pretender What if I say I will never surrender? What if I say I'm not like the others? What if I say I'm not just another one of your plays? You're the pretender What if I say that I'll never surrender? What if I say I'm not like the others? (Keep you in the dark) What if I say I'm not just another one of your plays? (You know they all) You're the pretender (Pretend) What if I say I will never surrender? What if I say I'm not like the others? (Keep you in the dark) What if I say I'm not just another one of your plays? (You know they all) You're the pretender (Pretend) What if I say I will never surrender? So, who are you? Yeah, who are you? Yeah, who are you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Zoot, as @Declan52 said earlier there are online calculators. https://www.bestheating.com/btu-calculator? Write a list of your rooms. Use the calculator to determine the BTU required for each room and note it down. Then figure what BTU rad you actually have in each room and compare to what you should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 @Onoff back to doors. (also onto with Vaillant yet again series of emails, battling again to get these two issues fixed. And it seems I ve got to battle a load of replies getting rather nasty again name slinging etc. need a break). As said my hinge frame bows in the middle a bit, 3mm. So Ive set this mid hinge the usual chisel-job set in the frame to get all in a line on the frame. Also whittled a bit off the door here. So the other hinges above & below sit on the frame, without chiselled in, to get this parity. Is getting this hinge line parity preferable, over setting the other two hinges chiselled-into the frame too? does it make a jot of difference having the mid hinge a bit nearer the door-? could *in theory this bow-in be 10mm, & the disparity between the line of hinges be fairly big? simple I'm sure but I cant picture the results on opening the door in this * eg. thanks. zH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Onoff said: Zoot, as @Declan52 said earlier there are online calculators. https://www.bestheating.com/btu-calculator? Write a list of your rooms. Use the calculator to determine the BTU required for each room and note it down. Then figure what BTU rad you actually have in each room and compare to what you should have. Ok but what does this info mean in terms of what can be done? I mean the suggestion surely can't be remove any rads & me replace them.. can it? or even attempt contacting the installers about it.. if it takes 7 months to get a leak fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Please do that only 1 radiator on test and we can start to make progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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