Zoot's Extention- GO!

[Cpd]

15 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

  I agree with your point that shimming it up does not equate to lifting whole thing up 350mm. But that's all I agree with.

well if that’s all you can agree to then I am very obviously wasting your time so I will refrain from trying to help / advise and will just observe 

 

18 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I can only think that just the fact that I do not have the experience you do, is cause for you to side with these builders and against me.

Quite literally unbelievable, what a very poor interpretation of my efforts to offer guidance. 
 

good luck with the build. 
 

signing of. 
 

regards 

 

cpd 

[ProDave]

Can I ask one thing.

 

When making an extension, that HAS to match up with an existing floor level for a knock through, it is normal practice to drill a hole through the wall a known distance above the floor it has to match to, then measure down that distance on the wall outside and clearly mark that floor level.

 

You then build everything with reference to that floor level mark so when you knock through it all lines up.

 

Has that been done?

 

If not ask them HOW they are going to guarantee the floor levels line up when they knock through.

 

If they have not done that then the floor levels could be anywhere.

[Big Jimbo]

This thread is a joke. I'll do my best to help anybody, but Zoot is on another level. No advice taken, and round and round in circles.

The answer is simple, but he just won't do it.

Anybody other than the big boss who comes to site is told to go away.

Phone call to big boss to say you want to have an on-site meeting with him.

 

Meeting with big boss. Simple questions written down that you want answers too.

 

What will be the difference between my existing finish floor level and the finish floor level on the ground floor of my extension ?

What will the height be between my extension finish floor, and the ceiling above ?

What will be the height of the first floor space from finished floor to ceiling.

I am having a door cut in, (already there) at first floor level. Will this door be full height ?

 

It's not hard or unreasonable to seek answers to the above questions directly from the person who you are either paying or going to be paying.

 

You won't do it..........instead you will carry on writing pages, and pages, and pages.

I bet you a fiver, I'm right.

 

You have been man enough to do a drawing, commission a builder. SO HAVE THE MEETING.

[Russell griffiths]

7 hours ago, zoothorn said:

 

How do i stop the job with a load of TF softwood just erected getting soaked for weeks??

If you haven’t paid for it, who gives a shit, if it’s wrong and you are convinced you are right, tell them to pull it down and take the shit away

if you are 100% convinced you are right stop work immediately and throw them off the site. 

[recoveringbuilder]

I have always shied away from confrontation as it’s really not in my nature to do so however when it comes to something as important as this where you’re going to be paying a lot of money you just have to do it. I had several confrontations with tradesmen during our build, wasn’t happy about having to do it but at the end of the day it was my money getting used.

[Big Jimbo]

6 minutes ago, Christine Walker said:

I have always shied away from confrontation as it’s really not in my nature to do so however when it comes to something as important as this where you’re going to be paying a lot of money you just have to do it. I had several confrontations with tradesmen during our build, wasn’t happy about having to do it but at the end of the day it was my money getting used.

Exactly Christine. You had to man up, and that was even harder for you because you were not a man to start with.

[Big Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

Exactly Christine. You had to man up, and that was even harder for you because you were not a man to start with.

My above comment may well be out of order. I have no idea how Christine choses to gender identify. She might have already been a 6ft 6inch big geezer called Bob, who just choses to identify as Christine ?

[recoveringbuilder]

5 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

xactly Christine. You had to man up, and that was even harder for you because you were not a man to start with.

Yes I found it extremely difficult to grow a pair!

[Redoctober]

But in today's enlightened times, you managed to ! ?

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Christine Walker said:

I have always shied away from confrontation as it’s really not in my nature to do so however when it comes to something as important as this where you’re going to be paying a lot of money you just have to do it. I had several confrontations with tradesmen during our build, wasn’t happy about having to do it but at the end of the day it was my money getting used.

 

Thanks for that Christine, more gentle advice like this is easier to take on board. The only confrontation here, is some nasty posts tbh. I have not been confrontational to deserve such replies. I am just under alot of stress, that's all (on my own/ no family to help too old, nor anyone in country I know I could ask advice or offload any of my genuine concerns to, as you(s) undoubtadly would have had) & I'm after clarity.

 

I have had my chat with builder, just now over 2 hours of it off & on. It was remarkable for the difference in my stress.. vs his good nature, smiles, laughing at me (in the best way), all --as before tho-- reassuring me not to worry etc! It seems a total 'need to know basis' has been the case ramped to max.. resulting in my innevitable confusion, non-clarity, & some things just altered without my knowledge. He's talked me thru it as he should have done from the off. Apparantly he had to go down the 350mm extra, in order to accomodate a lower upper ceiling level than my plan (due to truss rigidity). It still doesn't add up fully, but I cannot discern what.. & as he said its all done now. I stuck to my guns & said firmly why I was confused, stressed & not too happy.. & he laughed at me, seemingly totally in control (definitely/ without question) which I must have made a mistake in thinking he was covering up for no2 digger mistake. I even said this > amusement "no,no". Why on earth he couldn't have explained I said.. just more amusement. Oddly we're getting on absolutely fine. I've never been so confused. So like before, the reassurances.. but whether that'll mean actual physical concurrance, is still 50/50 (I said all this, straight up.. amusement & proper explanation at last which -was- definitely reassurance).

 

So his plan is -& he should have told me- for the knock-thru (always gonna be a step down into.. but not 3 steps as will have to happen now) is to add one of these steps of three within the stone 2ft wall IE 1ft.. step down.. 2nd foot.. step into room.. 3rd step.. in. All pre-thought out he said. The ceiling we agreed would be tight (my biggest concern, & remains so) as would the door in.. but he just reassures me they'll even be a bit of ceiling H to spare. I guess we'll see. What else can I do but wait.

 

Thanks for all the help- really appreciated, even if angry at me.

[Declan52]

Did you get him to put anything down on paper though confirming that your ceiling height will be X mm from your finished floor??

Plus did you ask him what will be the actual makeup and dimensions of your finished floor, insulation depth + screed??

It's ok him saying that it will be Xyz but if you haven't got anything on paper then it's going to be still difficult to pull him up on anything. 

[zoothorn]

14 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Did you get him to put anything down on paper though confirming that your ceiling height will be X mm from your finished floor??

Plus did you ask him what will be the actual makeup and dimensions of your finished floor, insulation depth + screed??

It's ok him saying that it will be Xyz but if you haven't got anything on paper then it's going to be still difficult to pull him up on anything. 

 

I've got one better in fact- physical sections in front of me I am 100% reassured of (& as the vertical outer silver membrane 'stud' lines confirm, he showed me, so no way can be otherway) are 2.4m/ measured. Plus he said one or two 'packing' shim 8x2's flat too.. if he can.. to get right up to tippy top max eaves H. Phew. Seriously this was the reassurance I needed. I am pretty laid back (normally) so I think he just went his own way fully confident. Me, the flip-side stress/ not to his knowledge until today I think.

 

Screed & FFL.. we agreed 50mm insulation plus 12mm of Onoff's screed (terrific thank you- your best link yet!) which he's fine about. So 2.1m room H.. ok not the 2.35m he promised (.. I just forget it now) but 10cm gained from my orig plan.

 

But, we're still on a knife-edge regarding the existing ceiling H (bedroom) & new top room ceiling H, & the worry remains as to the door frame(s) joining: laughs & smiles tho. All amusement to him. Lord alive coffee painkillers, & pacing like a cougar so I am. They're putting top room walls in within a few hrs too.. I can hardly dare look.

 

cheers Declan.

Edited November 1, 2019 by zoothorn

[Big Jimbo]

Well done Zoot. Talking is always good, and now you have got clarification of the things you needed to know. You builder sounds like a top fella, and if he tells you to door through will be fine, then i can see no reason not to believe him.

Why don't you go and make him a cup of tea.

You can now relax. It would seem you are in safe (welsh) hands.

 

You could have saved yourself so much anguish, if you had had that conversation with him much earlier.

 

Remember, for the future. If you have a question, Just ask.

Post up some pics when it is finished, so we can all admire.

[zoothorn]

27 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

Well done Zoot. Talking is always good, and now you have got clarification of the things you needed to know. You builder sounds like a top fella, and if he tells you to door through will be fine, then i can see no reason not to believe him.

Why don't you go and make him a cup of tea.

You can now relax. It would seem you are in safe (welsh) hands.

 

You could have saved yourself so much anguish, if you had had that conversation with him much earlier.

 

Remember, for the future. If you have a question, Just ask.

Post up some pics when it is finished, so we can all admire.

 

Well appreciate that post BigJ. all as you say.. but for one final fly in the fkn ointment. I measured the wrong orientation of the top floor walls.

 

Not 2.4m.. but 2.1m (silver stud lines across not up). Goddamit. So we had the good idea of going into top room & measuring every hyper-critical cm regarding the knock-thru door/ frame/ &.. the crux.. the new ceiling H next door.

 

With a 1.85m frame (low 1.8m door).. we calculated a clearance to the ceiling @ 1.9m (measured from existing bedroom floor up).. of 3cm!!! so that's 1.9m + the drop-in of 45cm = 2.35m which I absolutely demanded MUST be the absolute min the new ceiling is up from new floor. This is taking into account pushing the whole shebang 150mm -the min allowed for B.Regs- shy of existing eaves.

 

3cm clearance!! you see why I have been so stressed??!!

 

So my concerns were bang on the money.. my dims spot on, & he was surprised & as alarmed as me once all this worked out. For chrissakes 3cm!! all due to the collared ceiling frame cross truss beam being made approx 250mm lower than I ever anticipated. I was told this would be higher, but that out the window. He had no idea at all we'd be this close until I went thru it all with a toothpick-fussy.

 

3cm is WAY to tight for any tolerance. So stress remains until knock-thru & full picture/ relative ceiling H's are measured is fully revealed. Lord alive I can't deal with it. Again.

[ADLIan]

50mm insulation is unlikely to get the required U-value in a ground floor, max allowable is 0.22 W/m2K. Probably requires 80-100mm depending upon footprint.

Also I do not think that screed at 12mm thickness is suitable for use directly over insulation. Specialist screed can go down to 40-50mm, sand/cement at least 65mm.

[Pocster]

2 hours ago, Christine Walker said:

Yes I found it extremely difficult to grow a pair!

You can borrow mine anytime ?

[Pocster]

What does deja Vu mean ?

[Bitpipe]

21 minutes ago, pocster said:

You can borrow mine anytime ?

 

Do you keep them in a jar?

 

They could go on the tool hire thread...

Edited November 1, 2019 by Bitpipe

[Pocster]

35 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

 

Do you keep them in a jar?

 

They could go on the tool hire thread...

Yes . I have 3 in a jar ( 1 spare for those unforeseen circumstances) ?

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, ADLIan said:

50mm insulation is unlikely to get the required U-value in a ground floor, max allowable is 0.22 W/m2K. Probably requires 80-100mm depending upon footprint.

Also I do not think that screed at 12mm thickness is suitable for use directly over insulation. Specialist screed can go down to 40-50mm, sand/cement at least 65mm.

 

Understood.. we're thinking as a workshop 50mm might be BR allowed tho, or, even none at all perhaps/ as is.. which would help H but be damn cold as clay below.

[andyscotland]

38 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Understood.. we're thinking as a workshop 50mm might be BR allowed tho, or, even none at all perhaps/ as is.. which would help H but be damn cold as clay below.

 

If there's going to be any heating at all in the workshop I would be very surprised if BC will sign it off with less than the minimum insulation, unless you can demonstrate by calculation that you've offset the heat loss elsewhere.

 

And if they do, then the ceiling/floor between the workshop and upper room (which presumably will be heated) will definitely then need to be insulated as though it were an "external" floor.

 

As you're on a Build Notice, if you're going to do anything other than standard you must put a proposal to the council and get them to confirm in writing that they'll accept it before you go any further. You do not want to have anything "might be BR allowed" and wait to the completion inspection to find it isn't - especially since you seem to be very tight for height tolerances so have very limited options if they later insist you improve the floor.

[joe90]

What about asking your builder how HE is going to achieve building regs? Especially as this is by building notice, not full plans it’s the builder who should know? This is why I prefer full plans, no guessing half way through!.

[zoothorn]

@andyscotland ok good advice. I don't need to worry about 'might be allowed' other than asking at the mo, as my builder is bang on board re. actually building anything to BRegs/ he's having a word monday to our BCO for me.. just thought Id ask the Q in meantime.

 

I think I did ask the BCO this very Q, ages ago, & as long as there's wall & ceiling insulation I -think- he said 50mm fine in floor. Wait & see. Its just the H I'm struggling with, 2" if saved is huge.

[andyscotland]

@zoothorn fair enough, advice still stands though - don't rely on the builder having "had a word", make sure you & he have it in writing (fine to have a chat about options first, but once something is agreed get it documented)

 

Anything that involves interpretation of the regs is something where you can be bitten if a different person from the council is involved at inspection/completion stage. And you do not want to create a place where there's room for the council to say no, the builder to say a he did it in good faith because his mate there told him it was ok, and you to be the one left with a building that needs major alterations and a problem trying to prove who's fault that is and who should be paying for it.

[newhome]

You’ll be freezing to death if you don’t insulate it sufficiently, or paying unnecessary £££ heating it.