Zoot's Extention- GO!

[Big Jimbo]

Personally, i'm gutted that David James has gone out, because it means i see less of the Russian Blond.

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Big Jimbo said:

You are now making me miss the fit Russian Blond. A raised tie will give you a raised ceiling. You are going to walk out through the door from your existing first floor, and you are going to have a wall to your right which will rise from the floor you are standing on. at the top of that wall, you are going to have a slope rising towards you untill it meets the ceiling above your head. On the other side you will have the same, but the slope will be shorter, because your wall on that side is taller. The ceiling above your head, will be level from one side to the other. Stop trying to find problems where they arn't any. Relax, and enjoy the blond.

 

Nuts to the blonde. Please stay with me.  Half above is correct. But the 2nd half is not.. its THIS which is the very crux!!!!

 

"You are going to walk out through the door from your existing first floor, and you are going to have a wall to your right which will rise from the floor you are standing on. at the top of that wall, you are going to have a slope rising towards you untill it meets the ceiling above your head."

 

Yes. Agreed.

 

"On the other side you will have the same, but the slope will be shorter, because your wall on that side is taller".

 

NO.. NO..NO! here is the issue!! because the cross beam on the truss (the horizontal wood forming the ceiling line) is made 20cm DOWN from where it should be.. I believe.. it relegates the slope this side, it takes it out, meaning the ceiling is lower, it means I bang my head.. & bc the WHOLE extention has been made relative to this line.. I believe now..

 

it means the floor below is 20cm lower..

 

it means the balcony outside is 20cm lower..

 

it means the whole room below it is 20cm lower..

 

it is the reason for ALL the confusion & H issues keeping me awake & this thread to expand..

 

Now, this beam 20cm too low is what I am adamant/ totally convinced/ I am 100% certain of (I have the evidence.. by just measuring across it & transferring this figure to the build: its the same 4200mm measured from one outer side wall >>>>> right across to the other). I also wonder if it can be called a collared ceiling if its a right angle one side too, instead of the typical two slopes.

[Big Jimbo]

I'll tell you something now fella. You are 100% wrong. Everybody is getting tired of explaining this to you........... Your extension is fine. Your builder knows what he is doing. You seem to be just trying to find problems for the sake of it. Get your builder to chuck one up there on Monday, and you will see what we all mean.

[zoothorn]

21 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

I think I do.

your truss plan is a unique shape

the pic of the on site truss is symmetrical 

both are not the same 

if the walls are staggered on site (I suspect they are not!) then this try’s will mean a sloping ceiling 

but the walls on si ill be plumb and level so the outcome might be slightly different, in that, the verge of existing build will be ever do slightly out of parallel with the verge of the extension 

BTW

this stuff is murder to explain using words that’s why everyone wants photos or updated plans of what’s on site

good luck Zoot 

 If I had a cam phone I'd just snap a few sketches.. as I dont have I can only try & explain.

 

Yes the truss is a unique shape (but not out of this world weird). No the pic of the site truss is not symmetrical, it does follow the unique shape (look at the difference of where the cross beam intersects the outer thick 30* angle.. clearly different both sides, as it should be).

 

If the beam is placed too low.. the additional height is reduced. I think anyone could agree with that. It makes no difference non-symettrical or regular, a collared ceiling or normal.. for the purposes of this eg, boiling it down to the nub like this is uyseful.

 

If the cross beam is raised so its only say 3m across, it'll sit right up silly in the 'A' shape, its 'legs' longer. If this hyperthetical beam happened on my truss.. Id have alot of additional ceiling height. Conversely, if the beam was set right down as low as possible.. my ceiling height is reduced.

 

My beam IS set as low down as possible. This has actually happened. It can be determined this is true, by measuring the length of the cross beam & transferring to the built walls. If the length equals the width of the built walls.. this alone proves I am correct.

[Thedreamer]

25 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

Personally, i'm gutted that David James has gone out, because it means i see less of the Russian Blond.

 

Not a big fan of strictly, but just googled it, yes see what you mean! ?

[zoothorn]

9 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

I'll tell you something now fella. You are 100% wrong. Everybody is getting tired of explaining this to you........... Your extension is fine. Your builder knows what he is doing. You seem to be just trying to find problems for the sake of it. Get your builder to chuck one up there on Monday, and you will see what we all mean.

 

Ok BigJ if you're right, tell me: why does my cross beam measure 4200mm then bang on the nose (from where the horizontal starts one side >>>>> right across >>>>> to the outside of the notch in the outer frame).. & the width of the walls measures 4200mm too?

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

@zoothorn time for  a trip to the pub ... get  pissed, wake upon Monday.... Please.

[Big Jimbo]

4 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Ok BigJ if you're right, tell me: why does my cross beam measure 4200mm then bang on the nose (from where the horizontal starts one side >>>>> right across >>>>> to the outside of the notch in the outer frame).. & the width of the walls measures 4200mm too?

 

 

Have you measured from the inside of one wall to the inside of the other wall ? Or the outside of one wall to the outside of the other wall ?

[Big Jimbo]

1 minute ago, AnonymousBosch said:

@zoothorn time for  a trip to the pub ... get  pissed, wake upon Monday.... Please.

I'm quite enjoying the banter.  Come on Zoot get your tape out again.

[zoothorn]

16 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

I'll tell you something now fella. You are 100% wrong. Everybody is getting tired of explaining this to you........... Your extension is fine. Your builder knows what he is doing. You seem to be just trying to find problems for the sake of it. Get your builder to chuck one up there on Monday, and you will see what we all mean.

 

Everyone? no-one has explained it. No-one bar you & tennentslager only understand what I'm suggesting.

 

You can see the truss is wrong just by looking at it & comparing to my drawing (whether or not you don't believe its accurate.. which it is extremely accurate both in shape, the angle, the dims, everything.. to scale.. perfectly.. regardless of whether figures are marked on/ this does not mean the lines are not precise).. you can measure its cross beam to give added strength to my view, you can measure this 20cm too low figure run throughout the build tip to toe!! what more evidence do you need?! but still, just bc my plan is hand drawn, I am wrong & the builder is right. NO NO NO. Proove me so. You can't.

 

look at the vertical bar in the photo.. its too long!! there is to be no slope RHS, but instead ceiling will join at a right angle to the wall here. This is wrong. This does not give me the very design feature a collared roof should give me: additional height.

[Big Jimbo]

Answer the question above Zoot........ inside or outside...... Last chance before i give up on you

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

@zoothorn time for  a trip to the pub ... get  pissed, wake upon Monday.... Please.

 

Come on AB.. you'tre opinion I respect the most. Look 4200mm I measure across the horizontal truss beam from pinpoint where it starts, to the notch edge. 4200mm I measure on site one outerv edge of wall >>> across to the other.

 

So tell me how this 4200mm horizontal spans across/ sits on the walls.. & magically gives me additional ceiling height-?

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

Answer the question above Zoot........ inside or outside...... Last chance before i give up on you

 What 'inside or outside'? Ive no idea what you are asking.. its not even a question BigJ.

 

Please can you redo whatever Q this is meant to be.

[Big Jimbo]

10 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

Have you measured from the inside of one wall to the inside of the other wall ? Or the outside of one wall to the outside of the other wall ?

Answer the question fella.

[zoothorn]

9 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

Have you measured from the inside of one wall to the inside of the other wall ? Or the outside of one wall to the outside of the other wall ?

 Sorry I missed this post.

 

I measure as I said many times, from the outside of the wall >>>> to the outside of the other wall.

 

I am perfectly open to being proved wrong. Honestly. I HOPE to be proved wrong. This is why I'm doing this. If so.. I do get the added height a collared ceiling should give me/ & the builder's correct, I'm wrong/ & my plan is adhered to.. but I cannot see any evidence of it.

[Big Jimbo]

Zoot, you are now chums with the builder since your meeting. he will sort you out on Monday fella. I give up, I've got better things to do.

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Big Jimbo said:

Answer the question fella.

 

Done so (I didn't see the question/ post of yours before, no beep alert as usual.. so 'inside.. or outside' was random & meaningless).

 

Please don't asssume anything BigJ, it doesn't help & just encourages sniping posts from a few. thanks.

 

I await to be proved wrong. Anyone.

[jamiehamy]

8 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Come on AB.. you'tre opinion I respect the most. Look 4200mm I measure across the horizontal truss beam from pinpoint where it starts, to the notch edge. 4200mm I measure on site one outerv edge of wall >>> across to the other.

 

So tell me how this 4200mm horizontal spans across/ sits on the walls.. & magically gives me additional ceiling height-?

It doesnt magically give you anything. It simply allows a bit more ceiling space without raising the ridge height, with a compromise of slightly lower ceiling at one side. If you think your ceiling is too low then ask the builder to raise it by putting some additional timber before putting the trusses on. That will directly raise the ridge. 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Big Jimbo said:

Zoot, you are now chums with the builder since your meeting. he will sort you out on Monday fella. I give up, I've got better things to do.

 

Please BigJ- just help me out.. just when I ask the q, you bail out? this doesn't help me think you're right.. & I'm wrong does it.

 

4200mm I measure outside to outside walls. The same I measure from start of cross beam to notch. So they fit together, can we agree on that at least?

[jamiehamy]

Oh,and there won't be any sloping ceiling anywhere. The wall head on one side will presumably locate into the notch on the truss. The wall will likely be bettened up to meet the cross tie. Square walls on both sides +level ceiling everywhere. . 

Edited November 2, 2019 by jamiehamy

[jamiehamy]

The drawing is competely wrong and misleading. You should bin it and let the builder finish and never look at that drawing again. That's not being snipey - I'm completely serious. I know you do t accept this but the root cause of many of your issues is that drawing. It's not fit for purpose in any shape or form other than a general overview of the aspiration.

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, jamiehamy said:

It doesnt magically give you anything. It simply allows a bit more ceiling space without raising the ridge height, with a compromise of slightly lower ceiling at one side. If you think your ceiling is too low then ask the builder to raise it by putting some additional timber before putting the trusses on. That will directly raise the ridge. 

 

 

 

 

 

Please tell me how it gives me a bit more ceiling space above the RHS wall top? Can you answer me that?

 

Jamie I cannot put any more packers in, bc we're up to the very max we can go 150mm shy of the house slates. Why so far? because he realises only now too the roof levels relative to each other (knock thru door) are too big. We discussed all this.. him notice  all jokes gone, now slightly concerned, measuring ever wee thing suddenly, marks everywhere.. me not yet realising -only yesterday PM- the truss has been made incorrectly/ its bar across made too low (Im still open, willing & waiting to be proved wrong by any of you).

 

Look we were even chatting away on the new grey roof (dividing floor) about the ceiling H at 2300mm as soon as I was able to get up there. The wall H in front of me I measure 2300mm. So there's no additional height to be added. He knew I hadn't cottoned on about the truss bar being wrong at this stage, so just showed me how we could just squeeze the door in with a step he said for 1st time -within- the thick wall.. me scratching my head as to why this has all occured.. him elaborating 2.3m into 2.4m or 'packers' or 'all fine'.. a compromise I am not happy about, unless I am wrong).

[zoothorn]

11 minutes ago, jamiehamy said:

Oh,and there won't be any sloping ceiling anywhere. The wall head on one side will presumably locate into the notch on the truss. The wall will likely be bettened up to meet the cross tie. Square walls on both sides +level ceiling everywhere. . 

 

This is incorrect. There will be sloping ceiling on the LHS only.

[Simplysimon]

@zoothorn you're saying the overall (outside to outside) wall dimension is 4200mm? and that the truss dimension from corner of birdsmouth to internal junction of tie and rafter is also 4200mm?

[PeterW]

@zoothorn

 

This is what you are getting. 
 

This is what @jamiehamy and @Triassic and @Big Jimbo and @dpmiller have been trying to explain 

 

This is how those trusses work...
 

 

 

And this is the section through the wall the builder is planning from what you’ve said. 

 

 

Those are drawn from your dimensions that you have provided. If they are wrong then I don’t give two hoots, the principle is the same. 
 

I need alcohol...