Oh crap, can we switch?

[joe90]

11 minutes ago, nod said:

Heating still hasn’t come on since May

+1. Also my new build only has a few very small cracks where ceilings meet walls so not part of the air barrier. Cracks in render/plaster can be repaired, I am not convinced glue or barrier membranes have longevity.

[SteamyTea]

54 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Cracks in render/plaster can be repaired

Only the visible ones.  If the inside of the outer leaf, or the outside of the inner leaf is parged, that cannot be checked.

54 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I am not convinced glue or barrier membranes have longevity

Nor am I, why I asked the question about people getting follow up air tests.  Know the answer anyway, it is why we don't have true airtightness figures.

Edited October 3, 2021 by SteamyTea

[nod]

54 minutes ago, joe90 said:

+1. Also my new build only has a few very small cracks where ceilings meet walls so not part of the air barrier. Cracks in render/plaster can be repaired, I am not convinced glue or barrier membranes have longevity.

Yep settlement cracks on solid built homes are very quick and easy to repair 

TF can be a real nightmare 

[Dave Jones]

personally a shed/timber build isnt worth looking at, they are used by selfbuilders/amatuers as there are quicker and easier to manage than a traditional build. inferior though.

 

Proper brick and block with a 200mm cav superior in every way.

[SteamyTea]

5 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

Proper brick and block with a 200mm cav superior in every way.

As long as you fit a gas combi heating and DHW system.

[joe90]

19 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Only the visible ones.  If the inside of the outer leaf, or the outside of the inner leaf is parged, that cannot be checked.

Which is why I parged/rendered/plastered the internal block (even parged between ceiling/floor before flooring/plasterboard installed)

[TonyT]

18 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

personally a shed/timber build isnt worth looking at, they are used by selfbuilders/amatuers as there are quicker and easier to manage than a traditional build. inferior though.

 

Proper brick and block with a 200mm cav superior in every way.

 Doesn’t it depend on who is building it?

[joe90]

22 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

personally a shed/timber build isnt worth looking at, they are used by selfbuilders/amatuers as there are quicker and easier to manage than a traditional build. inferior though.

I am sure many would disagree with you on this one, quite a few here have a professional timber build that is very good in all aspects and the customers very happy.

[SteamyTea]

I think the main decision should be made on the availability of local skills.  If there are no bricklayers in your area, then don't get bricks.

[Thedreamer]

Say if my timber frame house lasts 100 years, what difference does it make to me or even my kids? For us it was no brainer as the right skills are around here to stick build and save a fortune. My mortgage is very low for my age and will be paid off by my middle forties.

 

Is it better for the environment to have a timber frame with a limited lifetime of 100 years +? 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

5 minutes ago, Thedreamer said:

Is it better for the environment to have a timber frame with a limited lifetime of 100 years +? 

That is an interesting question.  I think someone, over at the other place, looked into the marginal embodied energy and CO₂ differences between insulation types, and seem to remember that someone on here did something similar between wall types.

 

You can get decent raw data from Bath Universities' ICE database.

Edited October 3, 2021 by SteamyTea

[Redoctober]

40 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

personally a shed/timber build isnt worth looking at, they are used by selfbuilders/amatuers as there are quicker and easier to manage than a traditional build. inferior though.

 

WOW - thankfully you said it was a personal view - There are thousands of self builders / amateurs /experts and no doubt reams of well documented research to suggest otherwise!!

 

Just one question though  - How would you tell the difference between a house built to your preferred spec and a house clad in stone / brick but a TF at its heart?

[ProDave]

It's easy to say a brick house lasts a long time.  But look at all the early (and some not so early) 20th century brick houses.  By todays standards re insulation and air tightness they are absolute rubbish.  It would probably be better if these were now accepted as "end of life" and there was a program to replace them with new energy efficient houses.

[Ferdinand]

3 hours ago, Bramco said:

 

Not sure why you would want to withdraw the application because of the construction method. Unless an aspect of the design would be prohibitively expensive in your chosen method. As your architect had advised timber frame, they must have considered the design as easily done in TF.

 

I believe that you get your fees back if you withdraw an application, you also get a 'free' resubmit if if fails first time round.  There's always a further option which is to put in a 'non material amendment' once planning is approved - although this can only be on non material aspects, e.g. position and size of windows etc.  I think there's even the option to put in for material changes.

 

 

 

Time to think.

[Ferdinand]

7 hours ago, nod said:

No offense but I hate the 400 year old argument for TF It’s like comparing a Rolls Royce and a Mondeo 

The ones that have been about for centuries are made of seasoned timber Usually Oak framed Not OSB like today’s TF 

Its true Modern TF have a very short lifespan compared to Brick and block 

and can be insulated within an inch of there lives 

But it’s also easy to get a traditional home up to  a very high standard of airtightness also 

 

I work on both and find TF more convenient Which is truth would be known is the main reason for self builders preferring TF

Our first build is traditional 

We looked again at TF for our second and third Apart from TF not being as solid a build Which is always the case 

The extra cost frightened us off At least a third more 

I do The plastering on TF student Accommodation Electricians and Plumbers are given two days to first fix a pod of 8 We have 3 to board 2 days to plaster All this while the outside skin of brickwork is going up 

Something that couldn’t be done with traditional Yey Trades love TF

 

Some of these are sold to investors 

50 year lifespan 

 

Lifespan would be +30 years if it wasn't stoodents ?.

 

Don't ask me how I know.

 

(Tip: Rent to 2nd years not 1st years.)

 

As it happens I just hav to go and look at a tenant's chimney, who says that bits of brick are landing on her leanto roof and garden table.

 

Been in place since 185x .

[joe90]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

I believe that you get your fees back if you withdraw an application, you also get a 'free' resubmit if if fails first time round. 

Correct (I did this, several times .)

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

There's always a further option which is to put in a 'non material amendment' once planning is approved -

Why, unless the house “looks” different (example - brick not timber clad ) then planning has nothing to do with building regs (which controls construction standards).

[Mr Punter]

I would be very pleased if architects would start showing 400mm thick external wall on their planning drawings.  Far easier to then adapt for brick / block, timber frame or ICF.

[Temp]

17 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

It would useful if someone in planning or submitting planning apps ( @Temp?) could explain whether you lose your fees if you withdraw the planning app.

 

Sorry, No you don't get the fee back. 

[Temp]

We lived in a house in Belgium that had a solid first floor. Loved that so much we used Beam and Block for both ground and first floor when we did our self build I England. That required us to use blocks for the walls. No problems with a nice stone floor in the bathrooms as all rooms upstairs have UFH in screed just like the ground floor. I'm afraid I can't tell you the cost difference as we don't know but we love it.

 

 

[puntloos]

I've done the whole TF vs Masonry debate myself. My impression is that the skill of the individual builders is what makes or breaks either. TF is more exacting but if you have a good brickie doing it properly it'll be fine. TF is less audio-insulating but a properly done TF will be fine.. 

 

At the end of the day I had a proper QS evaluate my design on doing it TF and doing it masonry and the TF came out about 5% more expensive. 

 

Also for what it's worth, clearly having more mass means the audio energy first needs to move the house/wall before it can move the air and start transmitting noise, so a heavier wall (aka block) tends to be more noise-insulating, but again, a properly built <either> is going to be fine. 

 

Not worth the huge hassle of changing, which costs. You could apply that cost to buying better wall insulation, or paying your brickie a tip if he does it reaaaaly carefully.

[puntloos]

Incidentally, lifespan, I'd note that a timberframe, properly done (rolls eyes) will last for ages, but if you have a tiny leak somewhere, where some spot of the frame gets exposed to long term water.. I could imagine it turning into a weak spot that might require major support to prevent it from killing the entire house frame. With a brick house.. replace brick, drink a cuppa..

 

Obv take this with a grain of salt, as you can imagine I chose masonry, so now I'm invested in not being wrong

Edited October 3, 2021 by puntloos

[CalvinHobbes]

7 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

When I've worked with modern lightweight blocks they crumble quite easily. How long has this building method been around?

 

 

 

 

Considering the Mica scandal in Ireland (look up 100% redress) this comment chilled me.

[DragsterDriver]

5 hours ago, nod said:

We used dense concrete block 

Sap guys push towards lightweight 

But I made up the u value with a wider cavity and more insulation 

Heating still hasn’t come on since May

 

I do quite a bit of work for a company with 100milion + plus turnover and they have completely given up on lightweight blocks 

Lots of Brickies would disagree ?

yup I wouldn’t touch lightweight blocks, would have to be concrete block internal skins. 
 

 

[puntloos]

2 hours ago, DragsterDriver said:

yup I wouldn’t touch lightweight blocks, would have to be concrete block internal skins. 
 

 

Medium block would be fine though, right?

[Declan52]

There is no right way to build. Each method you can pick will have its own advantages and disadvantages. Pick the one that suits your site, your budget and your access to skilled labour. 

The important thing to remember is to make sure whatever method you end up using is you do all the research first. If you want to use timber then use timber. If you want blocks then use blocks. It's your house so pick the one you want to build the house you will live in.