Extension- Last Stuff.

[dpmiller]

So I'm thinking there's weather compensation, frost protection, and defrost; all of which might well affected by the damp-valley-close-to-a-river  scenario?

[PeterW]

@zoothorn can you take a photo of the wall unit in the main room..? Is it definitely a VRC700..?

 

 

[SteamyTea]

Have we seen the heat loss calculations for the house, and how them match up with the ASHP.

[MJNewton]

8 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Have we seen the heat loss calculations for the house, and how them match up with the ASHP.

 

I think they were asked for on/around page 9 so we've still got a bit longer to wait for those. ?

[Russell griffiths]

@SteamyTea I don’t think there is any point in heat loss calcs, as you know the answer already. 

 

Stone built cottage on 3 sides, standard building regs extension on 4th side, house beside a stream in Wales 

 

even I can work that one out. 

 

Soloution big AGA. 

[joe90]

12 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

 I don’t think there is any point in heat loss calcs, 

I disagree, it’s the way the  heating system SHOULD have been designed, how can anyone know what’s reqd unless this is known. Saying it’s an old cottage is not good enough IMO.

Edited December 1, 2020 by joe90

[Russell griffiths]

Just now, joe90 said:

oh yes there is, it’s the way your heating system SHOULD have been designed, how can anyone know what’s reqd unless this is known. Saying it’s an old cottage is not good enough.

I fully understand that, but common sense will tell you that a leaky old cottage is not going to be heated by ASHP, not unless he has a big row of them. 

[zoothorn]

@PeterStarck or anyone/ @PeterW ? temp figures, daytime. 6* outside, 18* in thermostat room (desired temp 18*).

All taken within last 2 hours, 6* temp not changed.. & tbh feels quite mild tbh.

 

Workshop 17.6*

New bedroom above 15.8*

Adjacent old bedroom to ^ (with rad turned off) 15.3*

Kitchen 14*

Main big old room (one rad on, one off) 14.3*

Bathroom 12*

Nose (in kitchen) 14.6*

 

 

 

[joe90]

13 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

but common sense will tell you that a leaky old cottage is not going to be heated by ASHP, not unless he has a big row of them. 

I concur, which is why I keep on saying ITS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE, (unless the designer can prove otherwise with his heat loss calculations).

[newhome]

13 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

I fully understand that, but common sense will tell you that a leaky old cottage is not going to be heated by ASHP, not unless he has a big row of them. 

So why wouldn’t a provider not just walk away? And if they haven’t and the solution can’t cope then surely there must be some sort of comeback / complaints procedure? 

Reminds me a bit of this newspaper article ...  

 

https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/13560306.noise-of-heating-like-torture/

 

 

 

[MJNewton]

3 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

@PeterStarck or anyone/ @PeterW ? temp figures, daytime. 6* outside, 18* in thermostat room (desired temp 18*).

All taken within last 2 hours, 6* temp not changed.. & tbh feels quite mild tbh.

 

Workshop 17.6*

New bedroom above 15.8*

Adjacent old bedroom to ^ (with rad turned off) 15.3*

Kitchen 14*

Main big old room (one rad on, one off) 14.3*

Bathroom 12*

Nose (in kitchen) 14.6*

 

 

 

 

Aside from the variance that's looking good - room with thermostat meeting target temp; system off due to being satisfied. If you want the rest of the house to be warmer you'll need to do one of three things: 1) increase target temp to demand more heat, 2) move the thermostat to your preferred (perhaps coolest) room with the desired target temp set or 3) supplement heating in the rest of the house with local heat sources. 

[joe90]

7 minutes ago, newhome said:

So why wouldn’t a provider not just walk away? And if they haven’t and the solution can’t cope then surely there must be some sort of comeback / complaints procedure? 

totally agree, not fit for purpose, ask for heat loss calcs to prove either way (which I doubt very much has been done) , complain to the financial source (council grant??).

[PeterW]

40 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Soloution big AGA. 

I said that ... about page 14.... 

 

10 minutes ago, newhome said:

So why wouldn’t a provider not just walk away? And if they haven’t and the solution can’t cope then surely there must be some sort of comeback / complaints procedure? 

I’m with you on this but I reckon this is a classic grant plus RHI scenario where the installer stands to make £3-5k a pop for basically a crap install and no comeback. 

[joe90]

Just now, PeterW said:

and no comeback

time to talk to the papers methinks!

[newhome]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I’m with you on this but I reckon this is a classic grant plus RHI scenario where the installer stands to make £3-5k a pop for basically a crap install and no comeback. 

So what scheme was it done under? 
 

@zoothorn do you have any paperwork that explains what funding was used? That has to be the first step before any contact with Welsh Energy is made surely? 

 

https://www.welshenergy.com/energy-efficiency-grants-wales/

 

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

To be fair your house is well insulated. If I lived in Zoots house I wouldn't consider using an ASHP it would be an external oil boiler for me.

 

Yes but you take that decision with experience. I have none, & have no other offer of a CH system than this (so, with a rotten old immersion tank & no CH at all.. can you blame me for biting their hand off?).

 

So its just not a Q of my having chosen it. But it was chosen, as being 'great/ you'll be really warm' by the surveyor (& I am warm.. in one small room only w'very low ceiling & insulation in: actually I'm rather proud of this result, even if room above, the priority room, & rest of house goes without saying, has never felt warm).

 

No CH system will heat this house, so I'm not complaining in general about the cold (altho yes dissapointed/ hoping better).. but, I am complaining about the -new room- so just one newly built room, which has fallen far short of expectations never feeling warm even with its huge rad on, fairly hot, for all of 3 hours.. & 120mm kigspan in walls etc.

[Gone West]

20 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

@PeterStarck or anyone/ @PeterW ? temp figures, daytime. 6* outside, 18* in thermostat room (desired temp 18*).

All taken within last 2 hours, 6* temp not changed.. & tbh feels quite mild tbh.

 

Workshop 17.6*

New bedroom above 15.8*

Adjacent old bedroom to ^ (with rad turned off) 15.3*

Kitchen 14*

Main big old room (one rad on, one off) 14.3*

Bathroom 12*

Nose (in kitchen) 14.6*

 

 

 

If radiators aren't on in some rooms and loft poorly insulated I'm not surprised at the temperatures. An old stone thick walled cottage like yours is going to take a long time to warm up.

[newhome]

1 minute ago, zoothorn said:

never feeling warm even with its huge rad on, fairly hot, for all of 3 hours.. & 120mm kigspan in walls etc.

You need to bite the bullet and let it run long enough to get that room up to the desired temperature I think. Don’t keep switching it off after you think it’s run for long enough. When I switch my UFH on for the first time in the autumn it takes a while the first day to get to the required temperature but it doesn’t take nearly as long thereafter. 
 

 

[newhome]

Oh and TAKE A METER READING today! And then report back tomorrow at the same time with the new reading alongside what your bill was in December last year. That’s the only way you will find out how much it costs to run. 

[Declan52]

7 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Yes but you take that decision with experience. I have none, & have no other offer of a CH system than this (so, with a rotten old immersion tank & no CH at all.. can you blame me for biting their hand off?).

 

So its just not a Q of my having chosen it. But it was chosen, as being 'great/ you'll be really warm' by the surveyor (& I am warm.. in one small room only w'very low ceiling & insulation in: actually I'm rather proud of this result, even if room above, the priority room, & rest of house goes without saying, has never felt warm).

 

No CH system will heat this house, so I'm not complaining in general about the cold (altho yes dissapointed/ hoping better).. but, I am complaining about the -new room- so just one newly built room, which has fallen far short of expectations never feeling warm even with its huge rad on, fairly hot, for all of 3 hours.. & 120mm kigspan in walls etc.

But they aren't installing it for your benefit. They are getting plenty from the rhi scheme so they don't really care as much as they would if you had of paid for it yourself. If it didn't work you wouldn't pay for it. They get their money no matter what.

[Gone West]

4 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Yes but you take that decision with experience. I have none, & have no other offer of a CH system than this (so, with a rotten old immersion tank & no CH at all.. can you blame me for biting their hand off?).

 

So its just not a Q of my having chosen it. But it was chosen, as being 'great/ you'll be really warm' by the surveyor (& I am warm.. in one small room only w'very low ceiling & insulation in: actually I'm rather proud of this result, even if room above, the priority room, & rest of house goes without saying, has never felt warm).

 

No CH system will heat this house, so I'm not complaining in general about the cold (altho yes dissapointed/ hoping better).. but, I am complaining about the -new room- so just one newly built room, which has fallen far short of expectations never feeling warm even with its huge rad on, fairly hot, for all of 3 hours.. & 120mm kigspan in walls etc.

I can appreciate you grabbing the offer when made but I don't think it will work out for you. If I understand the new downstairs room is warm but it is the best insulated. Put the woodstove on for a bit to build the temperature up.

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, dpmiller said:

So I'm thinking there's weather compensation, frost protection, and defrost; all of which might well affected by the damp-valley-close-to-a-river  scenario?

 

Are you talking about a possible reason for the thing coming alive 2am here?

 

You see its -only- the inside trv700 box unit thing that comes on, within a 15*C room at 2am (connected by pipes to cylinder).

 

The outside stuff, in 4*C, doesn't come active. No heating comes on for eg.

 

So why anything comes on, inside, when its perfectly warm enough @15*.. is the nub of the mystery (to me). Frost, defrost, are utterly n/a.

 

So the Q is stuck at 'what the f**k is it doing, going on/off/on at 2am??' as there seems NO reason for it to. If this could be answered, the solution could maybe be found. So chaps if anyone has any ideas, please just put them out here. Im so desperate to stop this. If I cant- it goes (at alot of money to me I just can't afford, as I have to replace it with something/ I have to have HW at least).

 

thanks- zoot

[zoothorn]

7 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

If radiators aren't on in some rooms and loft poorly insulated I'm not surprised at the temperatures. An old stone thick walled cottage like yours is going to take a long time to warm up.

 

Yes but there's just 0.5* difference between a freezing cold see-your-breath-sleeping-in uninsulated room, with no rad on.. to a brand new well insulated room, with a huge rad on. That sums this room up. Its rubbish. O.5*C. I mean its hardly worth putting the damn rad on is it.

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, PeterW said:

@zoothorn can you take a photo of the wall unit in the main room..? Is it definitely a VRC700..?

 

 

 

Sorry, the vrc700 is the wee controller. This is tied to a box unit thing, with pump in, pipes galore coming in/ out from.. the cause of all my woes.

 

They didnt leave me a manual for this wretched thing. No numbers on it, so I dont know what it is, or what model no. it is.

 

The system kis arotherm split 7.5kW. Its not the fan unit outside, its not the cylionder, its not the wee controller. Its a suitcase size box thing.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

21 minutes ago, newhome said:

You need to bite the bullet and let it run long enough to get that room up to the desired temperature I think. Don’t keep switching it off after you think it’s run for long enough. When I switch my UFH on for the first time in the autumn it takes a while the first day to get to the required temperature but it doesn’t take nearly as long thereafter. 
 

 

But i have done, it just never gets warm, i let it run all day more than once, set to 23*, but neve4 gets warm, just remains feeling like it does now 16* or so. I have to wear hat and scarf, all the time in day. Down below i can take hat off fine, scarf far too hot.. great toasty room, exactly as expected too.. bang on what i thought.