canalsiderenovation

Solar Quote Help Please

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1 hour ago, AliG said:

I'd like to know what investments your other half has access to. For £3-4k you get an index linked return of 7-10%. If you plan to move soonish then payback might be more relevant, but it isn't a bad return on the investment.

Are you suggesting solar PV is like an Investment with a return of 7=10%?

 

It is not.

 

With an Investment, you generally keep your capital and expect an income.  With solar PV, your investment has gone.  It might take you 6 - 10 years just to earn enough to get your stake back.  Only then can you consider you are getting a "return on your investment"

 

So your example of a "return" of 10% would take 10 years to get your stake back.  Keep it for another 10 years, and over the 20 years it would have been like an investment with a return of 5%

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I should have done an IRR calculation, the longer you own the panels the less the initial cost matters.

 

If the total cost of the panels was £4000 and you saved £300 a year in electricity then the IRR would be 5.7% over 25 years if you assumed that the system was worthless at that point, in reality it will still be generating electricity and making a return.

 

I have previously looked into the requirement to replace inverters. As far as I understand this is exaggerated and they may well last considerably longer, 10-20 years or even more for microinverters. If you want to assume that the inverter is replaced half way through the 25 years then the return would drop to 4.9%.

 

If you assume that the price of electricity rises by 2% a year then the return rises from 5.7% to 7.7%. If you offset this by degrading the panels by 10% over 25 years then the return would be 7.2%.

 

These numbers are based on using 2300kWh a year from the array. If you got 3000kWh then the returns would be considerably higher, 7.2% would increase to 10.4% for example. This is probably closer to the output you would expect but you might not use it all.

 

The yield to maturity on a 25 year UK government bond currently is 0.7% for comparison. The yield on 5 year bonds is negative! The yield on a 25 year inflation linked bond is -2.3%. This includes the benefit of getting your money back at the end of the period and so is calculated in the same way.

 

Another way to look at it is what mortgage payment could the income cover. £400 a year would cover the payment on £7000 of 25 year repayment mortgage at 3%.

 

You can put in other numbers if you like, but the point is that relative to other low risk investments or to the cost of a mortgage this would be a very good return at today's interest rates.

 

Where solar panels get weird is that despite the nice cash return they make it is difficult to get anyone to pay you for them when you sell your house, so these calculations make sense if you plan to live in your house for 20+ years, but not if you end up selling it and not getting paid for the panels.

 

 

Edited by AliG
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8 hours ago, ProDave said:

So your example of a "return" of 10% would take 10 years to get your stake back.  Keep it for another 10 years, and over the 20 years it would have been like an investment with a return of 5%

 

It is better than this as you can reinvest all the income you make along the way, hence the right way to do is is to use an IRR calculation, which TBF I had not done.

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For me personally , having solar and a well insulated house/air tight was always about the climate impact, as I can't see any of the cost involved in doing all that work would be paid back financially and wasn't really a consideration. 

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On 04/09/2020 at 06:52, gc100 said:


My electrician can supply a 8k. PV system for about £2k, plus a couple of days work (£360). This is trade prices with no markup 

 

Where are you (or more particularly your spark) based? 

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@gc100 that seems excellent value. Can I have his details? Might see if he would like to supply!

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Can I ask please, did you get trade prices yourself as a selfbuilder, if so with who?

I tried to spend the best part of £10K with midsummer wholesale (with further plans for more) from their easypv configurator prices, and they wouldn't give me trade prices, I was dealing with someone called Stephen.

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8 hours ago, canalsiderenovation said:

 

30 minutes ago, trialuser said:

Can I ask please, did you get trade prices yourself as a selfbuilder, if so with who?

I tried to spend the best part of £10K with midsummer wholesale (with further plans for more) from their easypv configurator prices, and they wouldn't give me trade prices, I was dealing with someone called Stephen.

 

I didn't use Midsummer in the end. My parents have a business and opened a trade account with another company and managed to order the equipment. 

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Try giving the list to Mark at Plug-in Solar...

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Just as an FYI, I got a quote for a 3.6 kW Array today. £2.5k plus VAT, which I thought seemed reasonable at that and viable. If you can get it down below £2k getting trade pries, I'd be very tempted to go with it.  EDIT: I compared with the earlier quote and seems my price is 20-25% higher. Time for a wee discussion I think. 

image.png.48cbd8136265e351b30d1f89a880f4c7.png

Edited by SuperJohnG

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I made a mistake . 8K system quote is £3K + VAT if applicabke + Electricians time to install.

Sorry!

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On 02/11/2020 at 12:35, SuperJohnG said:

Just as an FYI, I got a quote for a 3.6 kW Array today. £2.5k plus VAT, which I thought seemed reasonable at that and viable. If you can get it down below £2k getting trade pries, I'd be very tempted to go with it.  EDIT: I compared with the earlier quote and seems my price is 20-25% higher. Time for a wee discussion I think. 

image.png.48cbd8136265e351b30d1f89a880f4c7.png

 

where is that from ?

 

plug in solar is double!

 

https://www.pluginsolar.co.uk/?product=plug-in-solar-3-75kw-3750w-new-build-in-roof-bipv-solar-power-kit-for-part-l-building-regulations

 

 

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2 hours ago, gc100 said:

I made a mistake . 8K system quote is £3K + VAT if applicabke + Electricians time to install.

Sorry!

Thats seriously cheap  I assume this is 8kw ? 

 

2 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

where is that from ?

Thats midsummer solar. I asked if they would bring thr price. Down to trade prices but he says he won't. @canalsiderenovation seems to have accessed the trade prices somehow? His is around 25% cheaper.  

 

I could always try and see if they were interested in offering forum discount. Has to be as good as having a small trader buying repeatedly.

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On 02/11/2020 at 12:35, SuperJohnG said:

Just as an FYI, I got a quote for a 3.6 kW Array today. £2.5k plus VAT, which I thought seemed reasonable at that and viable. If you can get it down below £2k getting trade pries, I'd be very tempted to go with it.  EDIT: I compared with the earlier quote and seems my price is 20-25% higher. Time for a wee discussion I think. 

 

We didn't go with Midsummer in the end but a different company and got trade prices through someone happy to set up a trade account. We had 12 JA Solar 320W Mono Percium LW Black Frame with MC4 panels (though our GSE set up is a landscape rather than portrait) plus we had the addition of the Solic200 immersion controller but we managed to get the price to just over £1900 plus VAT.

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9 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said:

 

We didn't go with Midsummer in the end but a different company and got trade prices through someone happy to set up a trade account. We had 12 JA Solar 320W Mono Percium LW Black Frame with MC4 panels (though our GSE set up is a landscape rather than portrait) plus we had the addition of the Solic200 immersion controller but we managed to get the price to just over £1900 plus VAT.

Thats pretty good. How did you get the prices with midsummer though?  Was that a trade account. 

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Just now, SuperJohnG said:

Thats pretty good. How did you get the prices with midsummer though?  Was that a trade account. 

 

I never mentioned trade with Midsummer although I had done some serious haggling with them but I actually think they may have quoted me trade not realising it was for our use. 

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I used ITS technologies and got 12 320kw panels with a GSE In roof kit and a Sofar 3.6kw hybrid inverter in case I want to add batteries in the future.

 

Total came to £2700 + vat but I will reclaim the VAT as its for a self build. It will be my forever home so for me it was a no brainer. 

 

If I find I am using all the energy I generate, I won't bother with the batteries.

 

 

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@SteamyTea may be along shortly to ask if you meant 12 panels at 320W(p) each or a total of 12.320kW(p), or something else, and also to point out that kW is the correct unit of power, not kw...

 

Rgds

 

Damon

 

 

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2 minutes ago, DamonHD said:

@SteamyTea may be along shortly to ask if you meant 12 panels at 320W(p) each or a total of 12.320kW(p), or something else, and also to point out that kW is the correct unit of power, not kw...

 

Rgds

 

Damon

 

 

Or i may not, this time.

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4 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Or i may not, this time.

Letting me do all the work and catch the angst!  %-P

 

Rgds

 

Damon

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