Ferdinand Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: You have quoted wind, not solar. Solar is better than wind at the small scale and for a distributed local network. Wind relies on a centralised network. I don't think that runs permanently, though I suppose it could. More for balancing. Indeed. I was focussing on overall cost drivers and relievers rather than technology. It all goes into the electricity pot. It will be interesting to see if there is a tick up in solar installations as a result of the rebalancing of solar pv cost / benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldDoItUpper Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 27 minutes ago, JohnMo said: I would add a freestanding DC isolation switch otherwise you cannot isolate the inverter from the panels. And upgrade TS4 to optimisers, which should increase yield if any shading or clouds passing over. Is the TS4 not an optimiser? What would you upgrade it too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 42 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: It will be interesting to see if there is a tick up in solar installations as a result of the rebalancing of solar pv cost / benefit. Yes there is. Every installer I spoke to is flat out. Buyers spurred by the relatively low PV cost and of course gas etc/ pushing ever higher. Most I spoke to said if you want PV & Tesla battery the wait is 6 months. Presume there's ( at the moment ) less delay on just PV install..... But PV with battery is what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 34 minutes ago, CotswoldDoItUpper said: Is the TS4 not an optimiser? What would you upgrade it too? Sorry it is already an optimiser, ignore my comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, pocster said: Yes there is. Every installer I spoke to is flat out. Buyers spurred by the relatively low PV cost and of course gas etc/ pushing ever higher. Most I spoke to said if you want PV & Tesla battery the wait is 6 months. Presume there's ( at the moment ) less delay on just PV install..... But PV with battery is what you want. Isn't there a worry in winter with the battery. Unless you have a huge array, the battery just doesn't get charged from PV, so sits flat or charged by mains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, JohnMo said: Isn't there a worry in winter with the battery. Unless you have a huge array, the battery just doesn't get charged from PV, so sits flat or charged by mains? Yep. Very little PV in winter. That's why you charge for 'n' hours at off peak. My peak cost at the moment is 25p. Off peak 5p. So I fill my boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 hours ago, CotswoldDoItUpper said: Just received this from ITS Technologies… Seems good and will have a payback of about 4years? Quotation(ImPV05717).pdf 305.74 kB · 13 downloads Out of curiosity, this then needs installed. I can see an electrician looking at it and saying £1000 plus the work to install the panels on the roof maybe being the same again, so is it much cheaper than going to someone who would do supply and fit? Maybe I am too high on the costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Mine cost £300 for the electrical install. Install the panel mountings yourself. Pre run in cabling as part of first fix electrical install. When ready you and electrician install panels and connect up. Electrician completes connection of inverter, meter and isolation switches to fuse board. My installed quote for a ground mounted system with me supplying the mounting Frame was around £5500. So a couple of grand saving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 That's a very reasonable electrician. I was thinking they would charge £50-60 per panel like it was a switch connection, plus extra for the meter, connection to the CU, isolator switches etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, pocster said: Yep. Very little PV in winter. That's why you charge for 'n' hours at off peak. My peak cost at the moment is 25p. Off peak 5p. So I fill my boots. When ToU tariffs start to decrease in value or disappear, the battery maths will go with them. With big ( or huge ) batteries ( 13.5 or the +10 ( 23.5 ) bolt-on posse ) there will need to be, IMO, a fair bit of babysitting needing doing for those ~3 months of solar discontent eg so they do not charge and discharge off the grid. As soon as those economics thin out, driving the battery full and empty each day with anything other than excess PV will be a very poor equation. Other domestic battery offerings with 'winter mode', which can hibernate for up to 5 months of the year ( warrantied and guaranteed to do so ), will inevitably become the then-prized possessions. The biggest question has to be, what will come of L/S ToU tariffs of course. Anybody here in the process of being given E10 / E7 / Octopus Go! etc and been given / promised a contract to proceed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: When ToU tariffs start to decrease in value or disappear, the battery maths will go with them. With big ( or huge ) batteries ( 13.5 or the +10 ( 23.5 ) bolt-on posse ) there will need to be, IMO, a fair bit of babysitting needing doing for those ~3 months of solar discontent eg so they do not charge and discharge off the grid. As soon as those economics thin out, driving the battery full and empty each day with anything other than excess PV will be a very poor equation. Other domestic battery offerings with 'winter mode', which can hibernate for up to 5 months of the year ( warrantied and guaranteed to do so ), will inevitably become the then-prized possessions. The biggest question has to be, what will come of L/S ToU tariffs of course. Anybody here in the process of being given E10 / E7 / Octopus Go! etc and been given / promised a contract to proceed? Yes. In summer it will be easy. Winter will require some 'playing' on battery charge and when; to find a sweet spot. At the moment it's a simple timer. More advanced software could look at historic data and indeed the weather ; then adjust to suit. But us 'posse' must lead first, where our lesser men will follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: The biggest question has to be, what will come of L/S ToU tariffs of course. Anybody here in the process of being given E10 / E7 / Octopus Go! etc and been given / promised a contract to proceed? Why do you think ToU tariffs will disappear? The price of electricity varies considerably across the day and nightime demand is always likely to be considerably less than daytime demand. If anything the current Go rates 30p/7.5p have an even bigger ratio between day and night rates than when prices were lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J1mbo Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 There is news today that Offgem are opening up 30 minute metering for time of use tariffs more generally very soon. And Octopus are meanwhile offering to "give you free power at certain times if you can reduce your energy use when the UK’s energy mix is dirtiest." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 minute ago, J1mbo said: There is news today that Offgem are opening up 30 minute metering for time of use tariffs more generally very soon. And Octopus are meanwhile offering to "give you free power at certain times if you can reduce your energy use when the UK’s energy mix is dirtiest." Yep. I saw that. I didn't get invited! They are trying to load shift demand. It's a sensible thing to do. No-one remember the Octopus Agile tariff where at certain times of day they pay YOU to take electricity as it's cheaper for them to give it away than store it. The whole infrastructure ( of us micro generating ) will change everything. Some of us will become electric gods. Others will become slaves to us. I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, AliG said: Why do you think ToU tariffs will disappear? The price of electricity varies considerably across the day and nightime demand is always likely to be considerably less than daytime demand. If anything the current Go rates 30p/7.5p have an even bigger ratio between day and night rates than when prices were lower. Chats with folk in the industry, plus the constant dealings with DNO's and costs for new connections and costs for fortifications etc. Stinks of the UK public forking out and the energy companies dropping the dragnet to get that money from anywhere but their own coffers. Edited February 9, 2022 by Nickfromwales 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, pocster said: The whole infrastructure ( of us micro generating ) will change everything. Indeed, but it will require more and more manipulation and effort to maximise the return. Quote from the CAB webpages.... "Consumers could benefit from lower prices under time of use tariffs, particularly if they can shift their electricity use. But there are risks that the complexity of these tariffs could lead to higher costs for consumers. As the consumer advocate, we wanted to understand these potential benefits and risks. There is a lack of evidence about how willing consumers in the UK would be to adopt these tariffs and whether they actually reduce costs. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Chats with folk in the industry, plus the constant dealings with DNO's and costs for new connections and costs for fortifications etc. Stinks of the UK public forking out and the energy companies dropping the dragnet to get that money from anywhere but their own coffers. Agree. Who did you think would pay for the "green" (sic) revolution? Tax payer Who will pay for brexit/covid costs? Tax payer. Always the same. My intention is when I die ( about 300 hundred years from now ) then my carbon footprint should be zero. Then I would have 'cost' the planet nothing and my legacy will live on. I am still dellusional. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Indeed, but it will require more and more manipulation and effort to maximise the return. Quote from the CAB webpages.... "Consumers could benefit from lower prices under time of use tariffs, particularly if they can shift their electricity use. But there are risks that the complexity of these tariffs could lead to higher costs for consumers. As the consumer advocate, we wanted to understand these potential benefits and risks. There is a lack of evidence about how willing consumers in the UK would be to adopt these tariffs and whether they actually reduce costs. " Suck it and see; as the man behind the bike shed said to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 21 hours ago, pocster said: Pv and battery I just wonder when or if it will ever pay to go off grid -if it ever will -considering mains connection will £15K+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, pocster said: Suck it and see; as the man behind the bike shed said to me. Did you keep in touch, or did he never call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, pocster said: Suck it and see; as the man behind the bike shed said to me. Did I leave my packet of Marlboro here? Oh, and my camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 38 minutes ago, AliG said: Why do you think ToU tariffs will disappear? The price of electricity varies considerably across the day and nightime demand is always likely to be considerably less than daytime demand. It is cheap to turn off windturbines, and then switch them back on. There will also be large scale balancing storage, and local, sub station storage. My feeling is let the big boys sort it out, one thing we are good at, in the UK, is electrical generation and distribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Just now, SteamyTea said: It is cheap to turn off windturbines, and then switch them back on It costs almost nothing to run a wind turbine during the night (maybe some extra maintenance) so instead of turning them off anything you can sell is almost 100% profit margin. High fixed cost assets thrive on keeping utilisation as close to 100% as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Did I leave my packet of Marlboro here? Oh, and my camera. There was a trail of pastry crumbs….. Pasty apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: There was a trail of pastry crumbs….. Pasty apparently. I was there, filming it. Shall I post up the video before we need age verification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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