Plastic vs Copper pipes for radiators

[Raks]

Hi;

My radiators and pipes will be replaced. The plumber will install a "manifold for Wall Hang Radiators" so each radiator will have its own 15mm supply and return with plastic pipes.

-should we connect the plastic pipes directly to the radiators or copper pipes above the floor and a copper-plastic connection below the floor board?
-is push-fit good enough for connections or do you suggest any better and cheaper connection method for plastic pipes.

 

I like the idea of single piece of pipe from point to point with plastic ones but as some plumbers suggested, is it always better to go for a full copper-solder pipe system ?

 

Thanks

[Mr Punter]

Tend to be plastic with push fit elbow and copper for the last 300mm or so.

[Conor]

Just as above. If feeling fancy, you can use Chrome plated copper...

[joe90]

I am a convert from copper to plastic but like the look of copper (painted) or chrome pipes when on view.

[Moonshine]

+1 to the copper on show (or painted)

[Big Jimbo]

I now always use manifolds for heating. I run from the manifolds to the rads in plastic. The whole point for me, is that i won't have any joints below floors, or above ceilings, or anywhere where i can't get to them in the future.

[Alexphd1]

Just out of curiosity are we talking a full UFH type of manifold or just a old school micro bore type manifold? We are using a ufh type manifold on our upstairs rads so we can control flow temp from thermal store and no TRV's just room stats via phone app. 

 

I dont like painted copper pipes as it's very rarely painted nice (always paint over the valve nuts etc). I do like plain copper or chrome pipe especially to towel rails etc. I would not have push fit fittings on show either as the pretty bulky. Most of our jobs we took the white mlcp (uponor) plastic pipe rite to the radiator valve and used a chrome nut. Never had any customers complain. 

 

Ps carpet had yet to be fitted at that job.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Alexphd1

[Raks]

1 hour ago, Big Jimbo said:

I now always use manifolds for heating. I run from the manifolds to the rads in plastic. The whole point for me, is that i won't have any joints below floors, or above ceilings, or anywhere where i can't get to them in the future.

This is what i would like to do. Any advice about the manifold model/brand, the connection to radiators and planning?

[nod]

16 minutes ago, Alexphd1 said:

Just out of curiosity are we talking a full UFH type of manifold or just a old school micro bore type manifold? We are using a ufh type manifold on our upstairs rads so we can control flow temp from thermal store and no TRV's just room stats via phone app. 

 

I dont like painted copper pipes as it's very rarely painted nice (always paint over the valve nuts etc). I do like plain copper or chrome pipe especially to towel rails etc. I woulnd have push fit fittings on show either as the pretty bulky. Most of our jobs we took the white mlcp (uponor) plastic pipe rite to the radiator valve and used a chrome nut. Never had any customers complain. 

 

Ps carpet had yet to be fitted at that job.

I did exactly the same as you 

For the same reason

[Russell griffiths]

Do not use chrome plated copper into a push fit connector, they blow off, the teeth inside the fitting cannot grip the chrome. 

[TerryE]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Do not use chrome plated copper into a push fit connector, they blow off, the teeth inside the fitting cannot grip the chrome. 

 

+1 to Russell's point.  The chromed surface is harder then the teeth on the steel grip ring in a standard pushfit connector.  However standard compression fittings will work fine, so you can do as @Alexphd1 has done, or have a copper - HEP2O compression straight coupling dropped under the boards.   I personally would be a bit uneasy about mechanical risks from vacuum cleaners, kids toys etc. crashing into plastic pipe as it rises out of the floor. I am of the camp that a few wraps of PTFE are best used on compression fittings, but in this case only only on the chromed copper side.  You also need to make sure that the olive has properly bitten into the chromed surface, but don't over-tighten. @Nickfromwales , any words from the guru?

[Temp]

Plastic pipe is almost never straight so much prefer copper on show. 

[Raks]

52 minutes ago, TerryE said:

 

+1 to Russell's point.  The chromed surface is harder then the teeth on the steel grip ring in a standard pushfit connector.  However standard compression fittings will work fine, so you can do as @Alexphd1 has done, or have a copper - HEP2O compression straight coupling dropped under the boards.   I personally would be a bit uneasy about mechanical risks from vacuum cleaners, kids toys etc. crashing into plastic pipe as it rises out of the floor. I am of the camp that a few wraps of PTFE are best used on compression fittings, but in this case only only on the chromed copper side.  You also need to make sure that the olive has properly bitten into the chromed surface, but don't over-tighten. @Nickfromwales , any words from the guru?

 

anyone use these chrome sleeves for plastic pipes? Could it be the "best of both world" solution?
https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/chrome-sleeving-kit-130mm?campaign=googlebase&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuP2Ij_-N5gIVGLLtCh2FDwGUEAQYAyABEgLS7vD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[dpmiller]

Like Radsnaps but five times the price?

[Raks]

38 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

Like Radsnaps but five times the price?

 

No, these are not chrome effect plastics which clips on to the pipe. They are actualy 18mm chrome-brass pipes which has a inner diameter big enough to slide over to 15mm.pipe. 

It is safer if you are using point to point plastic pipe connections but with the decorative chrome pipe protection over the floor.

You just slide to the end of pipe before fitting the valve as you can see from the following video:

 

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Raks

[dpmiller]

looks like it concentrates any forces on the pipe very close to the fitting on the valve. No thanks...

[Onoff]

Youre all missing a (cheap) trick!

 

Nasty black waste pipe (or indeed white plastic)?

 

 

Nice bit 'o foil tape:

 

 

Brought to you by Mr Cheapseats.

 

?

[Raks]

The chrome sleeve pipe solution was not just for the look but to protect the plastic pipe above the floor for accidental damages.

A short copper or chrome pipe above the floor means a connection to the plastic pipe underfloor which is not prefered in some cases and chromes are not good for push fit connections with plastics.

Then I found these brass-copper pipes which can slide over the plastic pipes end for the radiator connection.

 

Its not the cheapest solution but this way,

-no connection below the floor and just one piece plastic pipe for point to point manifold plumbing

-solid straight pipe protection against accidental damages to the connection end of the plastic pipe with radiator.

-nice chrome look as well.

 

(actually, I think we can buy 18mm chrome  pipes by meter and some 18mm flanges which would be cheaper)

Edited November 29, 2019 by Raks

[MikeGrahamT21]

+1 for MLCP Pipe.

 

I got 16mm pipe, manifold with 16mm eurocones, and eurocones for all of the radiator ends, and ran full lengths from manifold direct to rads. No joints at all, so no ability to leak in horrible hard to reach spaces!

 

Using plastic pipe can be a bad idea for radiators, as the integral oxygen barrier of things like JG tend to only work up to 50C, which most heating systems will run above. MLCP has an aluminium liner, so doesn't suffer from this, so overall things should last a lot longer, and as a bonus, if you have any mice knocking about, they shouldn't get through aluminium.

[colin7777]

Maybe a non starter, but has anyone taken pipes through the inner service void area on external walls and then out through the plaster rather than up through the floorboards.

 

This would make it so much easier to keep the floor clean and less chance of the pipes being bashed with the hoover.

 

 

[joe90]

6 minutes ago, colin7777 said:

Maybe a non starter, but has anyone taken pipes through the inner service void area on external walls and then out through the plaster rather than up through the floorboards.

 

This would make it so much easier to keep the floor clean and less chance of the pipes being bashed with the hoover.

 

 

 

I have done this to avoid pipes coming out of the floor in a cloakroom. Looked good. It was not a service void, I buried the plastic pipe in the wall (protected).

[Onoff]

I've 16mm pex-al-pex to 15mm chrome like this:

 

 

 

 

 

[Raks]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

 

I have done this to avoid pipes coming out of the floor in a cloakroom. Looked good. It was not a service void, I buried the plastic pipe in the wall (protected).

Can we bury the radiator pipes into solid wall as well? how deep should I go and any potential problem because of the heat expansion of the pipes?

[MikeGrahamT21]

Plastic will give you the most problems in terms of expansion, PEX-AL-PEX (MLCP) would be the best option for burying

[joe90]

10 hours ago, Raks said:

Can we bury the radiator pipes into solid wall as well? how deep should I go and any potential problem because of the heat expansion of the pipes?

 

I covered the plastic pipe in thin pipe insulation to absorb expansion and stop the wall acting as a heat sink.