No deal Brexit impact

[Markblox]

4 minutes ago, Temp said:

I read somewhere that the design of the truck might have to be changed a lot to meet EU/UK regs because of the sharp edge and stiff materials. Any news on that?

Nothing I know of, but it wouldn't surprise me. Although are commercial vehicles subject to different regulations. I know they are in the US.

 

Although I am a very early reservation holder, I may end up with something else. I just know the pickup I now have will be the last ICE car I will ever buy.

 

What makes me laugh is the number of people that diss electric cars who have never tried one.  Just try one and you will soon get it. Talk to the average person and they come out with all the usual rubbish as if they are talking facts, when in fact they are just talking rubbish.

[scottishjohn]

16 minutes ago, Temp said:

I read somewhere that the design of the truck might have to be changed a lot to meet EU/UK regs because of the sharp edge and stiff materials. Any news on that?

thats for sure --that  is one of the reasons why the landrover  as we know it was killed 

solid bumpers attached to a solid chassis --no crumple zone and why "roo bars " disappeared on 4 x4 ,s

 edit _ and why the 2cv was killed --it had no crumple zone --it just all crumpled and squished the driver

Edited February 27, 2020 by scottishjohn

[Jeremy Harris]

1 minute ago, Markblox said:

What makes me laugh is the number of people that diss electric cars who have never tried one.  Just try one and you will soon get it. Talk to the average person and they come out with all the usual rubbish as if they are talking facts, when in fact they are just talking rubbish.

 

Makes me laugh, too.  Everyone that's had a drive of my Model 3, even the real diehard petrol heads, gets out of it with a grin and a comment about how impressive it is to drive.  Admittedly, much of that is related to the acceleration, but equally the comfort and quality of the interior always gets a mention, too. 

[Markblox]

Just now, Jeremy Harris said:

 

Makes me laugh, too.  Everyone that's had a drive of my Model 3, even the real diehard petrol heads, gets out of it with a grin and a comment about how impressive it is to drive.  Admittedly, much of that is related to the acceleration, but equally the comfort and quality of the interior always gets a mention, too. 

The very first day my daughters neighbour bought his model 3 performance  (7th of July or August) he let me drive it. He lets anyone he knows drive it  and it is only after they have a go that they 'get it'. He's also converted a lot of people.

 

 The seats are the most comfortable of any car I have driven and they are made in house by Tesla.  Apparently there are only three companies that make all of the seats of all of the cars in the world. The build quality isn't up to the high standards of some others historically but apparently they have improved, and the service isn't what it should be but the cars themselves are on a completely different level. 

 

All electric cars are very easy to drive and there is now greater choice and with the tax advantages from April it should be a no brainer, especially as legislation in the future will penalise ICE cars.  And so it should too because we all like to breath clean air, don't we?

 

I suppose at the end of the day people just like what they know but one way or another the writing is on the wall for ICE cars.  Worth a Google on the 'Osbourne effect on the car industry' Could be a very expensive mistake to buy a new ICE car now.

[ToughButterCup]

22 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

...

"morally corrupt", that's a term that might more fairly be used to describe the proven immoral, cheating and law breaking behaviour of the VW Audi Group.

  ...

Exactly. 

 

I've driven VWs since the split screen beetle (my sister gave one to me - left hand drive). Never even thought of buying anything else. 

 

Never again.  Arschgeigen ! (Tr lit. Rectal violins)

[Markblox]

1 minute ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Exactly. 

 

I've driven VWs since the split screen beetle (my sister gave one to me - left hand drive). Never even thought of buying anything else. 

 

Never again.  Arschgeigen ! (Tr lit. Rectal violins)

I agree, also Daimler have been caught too but that isn't generally known about.  

In the US the VW brand is absolutely hated because of this and has cost them long term I think, although in Europe we seem to be more forgiving.

[ProDave]

5 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Exactly. 

 

I've driven VWs since the split screen beetle (my sister gave one to me - left hand drive). Never even thought of buying anything else. 

 

Never again.  Arschgeigen ! (Tr lit. Rectal violins)

Buying a VW Touran cured me of any belief that VW made good cars.

[Dreadnaught]

23 minutes ago, Markblox said:

Worth a Google on the 'Osbourne effect on the car industry'

 

Good suggestion. Fascinating read: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/25/the-osborne-effect-on-the-auto-industry/

[Temp]

50 minutes ago, Markblox said:

What makes me laugh is the number of people that diss electric cars who have never tried one.

 

Was the same back in the 1980s when electric powered RC planes became possible. I was an early adopter and would turn up with charged batteries and be flying before others had got theirs fueled up. No struggling to start cold engines with ether soaked fingers in winter :-) 

[Markblox]

1 minute ago, Dreadnaught said:

 

Good suggestion. Fascinating read: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/25/the-osborne-effect-on-the-auto-industry/

The effect is already beginning,  if you look at the number of new cars being sold around the world in the last couple of years.  I read that article last year when it was written and it seems to be coming true and should go on for many years. In the next downturn (Corvid19 perhaps),  some of the existing car makers are going to run out of money. 

This transition will be as disruptive as the change from horse and carts to cars 120 years ago.

[Adrian Walker]

1 hour ago, Markblox said:

The very first day my daughters neighbour bought his model 3 performance  (7th of July or August) he let me drive it. He lets anyone he knows drive it  and it is only after they have a go that they 'get it'. He's also converted a lot of people.

 

 The seats are the most comfortable of any car I have driven and they are made in house by Tesla.  Apparently there are only three companies that make all of the seats of all of the cars in the world. The build quality isn't up to the high standards of some others historically but apparently they have improved, and the service isn't what it should be but the cars themselves are on a completely different level. 

 

All electric cars are very easy to drive and there is now greater choice and with the tax advantages from April it should be a no brainer, especially as legislation in the future will penalise ICE cars.  And so it should too because we all like to breath clean air, don't we?

 

I suppose at the end of the day people just like what they know but one way or another the writing is on the wall for ICE cars.  Worth a Google on the 'Osbourne effect on the car industry' Could be a very expensive mistake to buy a new ICE car now.

 

 

I had an Osbourne computer, it was good but I'm sure the next model would have been a lot better! lol

[jack]

1 hour ago, Markblox said:

...  and with the tax advantages from April it should be a no brainer, especially as legislation in the future will penalise ICE cars.  And so it should too because we all like to breath clean air, don't we?

 

Yup. My Hyundai Ioniq Electric on a business lease arrives first week of April. 0% BIK for the first year, then 1% and 2% for the following two years.  

[epsilonGreedy]

18 hours ago, Jeremy Harris said:

Just something that detects when mobile 'phones are being used and disables the car might be a start.  The number of people that still drive around with a 'phone in their hand, or even try to text whilst driving, still seems to be pretty high.

 

 

That would be a welcome technical innovation, these days whenever the car ahead drives strangely I look to see if the driver is looking at a mobile phone. My hunch is that in-car technology distraction is as dangerous as alcohol and speeding.

 

I suppose we are in a transition phase that will be self correcting as voice control and autopilots become more advanced.

[Ferdinand]

18 hours ago, gc100 said:

The biggest challenge to mass adoption is not the interior, how it looks, how it drives, performance, styling, or comfort levels. Its the infrastructure to charge them, especially on conventional terraced streets and flats. 

 

 

I think that will not be a problem, having looked into it a bit. It will just wither on the vine as an issue.

 

For these reasons:

 

1 - Conventional drivers in terraces do not demand a personal filling station at their house, for reasons of

a - The car outside has 300 miles range.

b - They have reserve range in a can in the shed if they want it.

c - The RAC and similar are an efficient rescue service.

d - "Recharging" takes about 5 minutes at a filling station.

 

2 - For electricals, except for (d) all of these will be available within a few years, or are here now. I think refilling 60-80% in 15 minutes with a complimentary coffee would lick that.

 

3 - The grid can be built in the time - consider how quickly it was done in the 50s-60s. The Planning System and green NIMBY yahoos are a bigger problem, and political cowardice in dealing with them both appropriately.

 

4 - If it isn't built, we could replicate the existing fuel tanker model - a Freight Container can already transport electricity in batteries to charge perhaps 300-400 cars. That is ANAD the same as a 5000 gallon petrol or diesel tanker.

 

5 - Flats often have a dedicated parking space. But 65% of UK dwellings have off street parking. I suspect that this is mainly London based politicians shouting out of their igorance silos. The *potential* problem is much smaller than claimed.

 

6 - In cities (where terraces and flats are in the main located) car usage / ownership can be encouraged to fall with proper public transport and bike provision, car clubs, hire, policy initiatives such as congestion charge etc. 

 

7 - There is *some* data (though not a lot). Car ownership per household fell modestly in nearly all London boroughs in the noughties when congestion charge was bedding in. That was by about 3-5% relative to growth in other places. And of course London is a place with decent public transport. A straw in the wind.

 

8 - It will need some infrastructure for the alternatives (eg cycling for 10% of journeys - increase of about 5x - should be childsplay once we are serious about it), but demonstrations exist.

 

9 - We already have urban tram system carrying about 120m passengers a year outside London, in only about 7-8 cities.

 

10 - Nottingham would be an interesting study, as they have

a - A tramway, carrying 20m a year, run by City. 

b - Serious amount of part and ride (9500 spaces), integrated with trams.

c - A heavy rail "Metropolitan Area line" (Robin Hood line - say 30 miles long) carrying 1.25m a year, run by County. I know several people who cycle 15-20 miles one way, then train the other way - one in his 50s.

d - Serious effort put in to encouraging cycling. Targeting 10% of journeys by 2025.

e - Workplace parking tax of about £400 per space you provide for commuting employees, with exceptions for disabled etc.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Ferdinand

[epsilonGreedy]

3 hours ago, Markblox said:

What makes me laugh is the number of people that diss electric cars who have never tried one.  Just try one and you will soon get it. Talk to the average person and they come out with all the usual rubbish as if they are talking facts, when in fact they are just talking rubbish.

 

 

Conversely what makes me laugh is the petrol head types who have transferred their passion to EVs but do not accept the continuation of these technical advances leads us to a world where full time ownership of a motor vehicle will be seen as a legacy concept.

 

20 years from now a car will just be a for-hire personal transport option that will arrive a few minutes after clicking a button on a mobile phone app, all driven by an autopilot.

Edited February 27, 2020 by epsilonGreedy

[Bitpipe]

54 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

20 years from now a car will just be a for-hire personal transport option that will arrive a few minutes after clicking a button on a mobile phone app, all driven by an autopilot.

 

Minus the autopilot, currently known as Uber. Or even an old fashioned taxi.

 

 

[epsilonGreedy]

29 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

Minus the autopilot, currently known as Uber. Or even an old fashioned taxi.

 

 

Yes Uber points to what the future holds, the transition will occur first in large population centres.

 

It is starting...

 

BRITAIN MAY HAVE HIT ‘PEAK CAR’ AS YOUNG DRIVER NUMBERS FALL SHARPLY

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/britain-may-hit-peak-car-young-driver-numbers-fall-sharply/

[Jeremy Harris]

I suspect that those in rural areas, where taxis are expensive and public transport has been in decline for years, may well have a long wait until such services become profitable.  I doubt very much that I'll live long enough to see the end of private car ownership, TBH, although it does seem very likely that those living in cities will be able to give them up fairly easily.  A friend of mine lives in Regent's Park, and pays four times the cost of our electricity bill just to park his car outside his house.

[Bitpipe]

I think Zip car is another trend - you hire a car for a few hours, days via app and pick it up from where the last person dropped it off. 

 

We had millennial relations who lived in Wapping up until recently and they used it for the occasional trip where public transport wouldn't cut it. 

[K78]

7 hours ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

 

Guess how VW secured the first few thousand orders for the, as then yet to be finalised, ID.3?  They took a £750 pre-booking deposit that guaranteed future customers a place in the queue.  I paid this deposit, as at the time (about a year ago) I thought that the ID.3 looked like it might meet our needs pretty well. 

 

Guess what?  VW are way behind schedule with the ID.3 and are having major software problems that don't look as if they will be resolved anytime soon.

 

However, just like Tesla, the deposit on the ID.3 was fully refundable, and VW paid it back within about a week of me cancelling my pre-order.  Just as well, as although Tesla give a 7 day, no quibble, money back guarantee if you take delivery of a car and then decide you just don't like it, and hand it back to them, VW don't.  Like every other car manufacturer, once you've taken delivery the deal is done.

 

Doesn't seem to me that Tesla are in any way "morally corrupt", that's a term that might more fairly be used to describe the proven immoral, cheating and law breaking behaviour of the VW Audi Group.  They are probably now going to face another massive fine, for not meeting the promise they made to start delivering the zero emissions (at point of use) ID.3 in volume this year.  IIRC, that fine is around another €10 billion, on top of how ever many billions the VW Audi Group have already had to pay out for being cheating liars.

VAG are in no way comparable to Tesla. Tesla may not be around in 10 years. VAG own everything from Lamborghini to Skoda. 
 

Do you believe the cybertruck is real? Surely not?

 

Your Tesla fanboy hat is clouding your judgement. 

[Jeremy Harris]

16 minutes ago, K78 said:

VAG are in no way comparable to Tesla. Tesla may not be around in 10 years. VAG own everything from Lamborghini to Skoda. 
 

Do you believe the cybertruck is real? Surely not?

 

Your Tesla fanboy hat is clouding your judgement. 

 

 

Firstly, I'm most definitely not a "Tesla fanboy", whatever that is.  The company has some serious shortcomings, as I've highlighted in another thread here very recently, for example the hassle in getting hold of customer service, their intrinsically broken IT systems that cannot even deal with email, their failure to get the basics, like sending a customer an accurate invoice (I had eleven invoices before they got it right, believe it or not).  Their "no dealership" model is a serious embuggerance if you need service, too, and their pre-delivery inspection is virtually non-existent.

 

The car is, however, superb, and it's really hard to find fault with it.  That's just the way it is.  It's well designed, well built and doesn't have any of the issues you've highlighted, like cheap or poor quality interior materials.

 

I'm not a fan of the Cybertruck, either.  Not at all my thing, and way too big to be practical around the narrow lanes where I live.  Whether it gets delivered or not I really don't know, but if I had to guess I'd say it almost certainly will, if only because the big truck market in the US is a big segment.

 

VAG aren't comparable to Tesla, you're right.  So far, VAG have been proven, beyond any doubt, to be a company that has cheated and lied to their customers on a massive, global, scale for years, so far Tesla has done neither. 

[ToughButterCup]

17 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

[...]

  So far, VAG have been proven, beyond any doubt, to be a company that has cheated and lied to their customers on a massive, global, scale for years,

[...]

 

Dont rub it in.

I'm embarrassed now. That whole mess epitomises , for me anyway, all that's dreadful about the German upper crust - the deep level of group think - the incestuous nature of it all. I mean remember Monkey Gate? Wasnt it not so long ago that they thought they could test vehicle emissions by subjecting monkeys to the exhaust fumes?

 

God I hope I've mis-remembered that .?

[Bitpipe]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

 

Firstly, I'm most definitely not a "Tesla fanboy", whatever that is.  The company has some serious shortcomings, as I've highlighted in another thread here very recently, for example the hassle in getting hold of customer service, their intrinsically broken IT systems that cannot even deal with email, their failure to get the basics, like sending a customer an accurate invoice (I had eleven invoices before they got it right, believe it or not).  Their "no dealership" model is a serious embuggerance if you need service, too, and their pre-delivery inspection is virtually non-existent.

 

The car is, however, superb, and it's really hard to find fault with it.  That's just the way it is.  It's well designed, well built and doesn't have any of the issues you've highlighted, like cheap or poor quality interior materials.

 

I'm not a fan of the Cybertruck, either.  Not at all my thing, and way too big to be practical around the narrow lanes where I live.  Whether it gets delivered or not I really don't know, but if I had to guess I'd say it almost certainly will, if only because the big truck market in the US is a big segment.

 

VAG aren't comparable to Tesla, you're right.  So far, VAG have been proven, beyond any doubt, to be a company that has cheated and lied to their customers on a massive, global, scale for years, so far Tesla has done neither. 

 

Elon Musk did confess to being a 3000 year old vampire so there's that to consider.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/elon-musk-twitter-conspiracy-time-travel-a9361361.html

 

[Ferdinand]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Harris said:

I suspect that those in rural areas, where taxis are expensive and public transport has been in decline for years, may well have a long wait until such services become profitable.  I doubt very much that I'll live long enough to see the end of private car ownership, TBH, although it does seem very likely that those living in cities will be able to give them up fairly easily.  A friend of mine lives in Regent's Park, and pays four times the cost of our electricity bill just to park his car outside his house.

 

Given that buses are one of the things Boris has tied his balls to wrt the Red Wall seats, we may find out in the next few years.

 

Our new Tory MP has been reminding him - albeit foolishly positioning rural buses in opposition to HS2.

 

I had 6 landlords in London over about 8 years, and I think only 2 had cars. This was 1-2 decades ago. One was unable to drive due to eye problems, and it had not affected his career at all - he was a programmer for Teletext.

 

One Saturday the Wimbledon scores went nuts, and he had to rush in to work to mend it ? .

Edited February 27, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Bitpipe]

2 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Given that buses are one of the things Boris has tied his balls to

 

Now there's a mental picture. 

 

He is bus and bridge obsessed.

 

Is that because they both begin with B?