Weebles Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I am posting this in case it is helpful to anyone on this site now or in the future. We have just had the last bit of asbestos removed from our 1960s bungalow and demolition is now able to commence. If you have asbestos it needs to be removed and disposed of appropriately. Some asbestos is not as bad (chrysotile for example) and can be dampened, double bagged in heavy duty polythene and taken to a tip that accepts asbestos (many don't). But if you have the bad stuff (we had amosite) it has to be put in sealed containers and shipped out properly and the work has to be done by licenced contractors. The Health & Safety Executive needs to be informed 14 days prior to work commencing. Our contractors did that for us. We suspected asbestos so got a couple of samples tested a year ago. One was chrysotile, the other was amosite (asbestos insulating board used on our soffits). At that point our demolition costs went up by a factor of 6 ? You need an asbestos survey before demolition. These are invasive and leave your house with holes everywhere (ceilings / walls). They can repair the damage and allow you back in once it is done but most surveyors we spoke to didn't recommend it. We moved out permanently before getting our survey. Sadly our survey showed up even more asbestos than we knew about. We knew about the soffit boards and the roof edging strips and the artex ceilings. We didn't know that every vertical wall strut in the outer walls of our timber frame 1960s "flat pack from the NEC" would be lined with a strip of asbestos. Our asbestos contractors have been in for a week in April and then again for most of May (had to give an additional 14 days notice to HSE for the newly found asbestos). First a protective plastic "bubble" was fitted around the house, encasing the soffits. Extract fans were placed to filter the air before extracting it to the outside world. An airlock of plastic encased boxes was built to the front of the house. A shower unit was permanently on site for the guys when they de-suited each day. The soffits were removed, then the house was sealed from the inside so the internal asbestos could be removed. At all times, all the guys working wore masks and full protective suits. After all was removed, an asbestos analyst attended to ensure that the air was clean and the asbestos was removed and all areas appropriately cleaned. A certificate of reoccupation was then issued to officially allow people to go back into the house without all the suits and masks. A contractor has done all this for us and we are glad that we haven't attempted any of this ourselves. They finished yesterday (though the chrysotile roof edging is still in place and will be taken off with the tiles). Some photos attached. Hope this is helpful to someone else. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Christ what a lot of work. i am sure I have been exposed in the past. I am not sure of the true risks, but better safe etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Wow! All a bit sobering that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I am sure most of us of a certain age have been exposed. I recall at school the corridor ceilings were clad in some form of insulation, it had a hard crust but was damaged in many places and you could put your finger in an pull out bits of fluffy white stuff. Then one summer holiday it all got stripped out. That was 40 years ago so I guess the time window for it causing a problem has passed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 52 minutes ago, ProDave said: That was 40 years ago so I guess the time window for it causing a problem has passed? It can take many decades for it to cause cancer, with most cases occurring between 20 and 50 years after exposure and some even later than that. It is believed however that there is a genetic predisposition to contracting mesothelioma, and that if you are susceptible it only takes one breath of the fibres to cause cancer decades later. Certainly there have been cases where more than one generation of the same family have contracted it. In one case I know of personally the father died, followed by the deaths of his 3 children years later, from, it is suspected, breathing in the fibres on their father’s work clothes. That said, the vast majority of people exposed will never develop cancer as a result but it’s such a bloody awful death with no possibility of surviving it currently, that strict health and safety procedures can only be a good thing. The UK has one of the highest mesothelioma rates in the world. Three quarters of schools still contain asbestos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 9 hours ago, Weebles said: [...] Hope this is helpful to someone else. It most certainly will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 11 hours ago, Weebles said: I am posting this in case it is helpful to anyone on this site now or in the future. We are about to embark on a similar task with the demolition of our 1920s bungalow. All the timber frame walls and ceilings are lined with 8'x4' asbestos cement sheets which have been covered with plasterboard sometime in the past. Fortunately it is Chrysotile and not one of the more dangerous types, but it is an expensive exercise. Although ours is classed as Non-licenced work it's not a job I would want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Sobering - there must be countless occurrences of asbestos exposure though less diligent practices than yours. My uncle died from a lung condition in his mid 70s a few years back - not asbestos related but suspected to be something similar that he was exposed to while working in a chemical plant in the 60s. Our 1950's build had surprisingly little asbestos when we did the pre-demo destructive survey (not even in soffits) and the suspicion was that they had been removed in the 80s when the house had a refurb - probably just skipped & dumped back then. Anyway, onward and upward - hopefully that's the last of the nasty surprises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 When my Father was a site engineer in the 1950's, high temperature pipework was insulated with a wet asbestos mix, applied by hand. There were 4 British engineers working on the project, 3 died of asbestosis before they were 70. My Father was the one that did not. This was out in the Far East and the majority of the labour force was Indian or Chinese. As far as I know, even back then, there was concerns about asbestos. In 1977 Iwent for an apprenticeship at a company called Railko who made bearings. They were using asbestos then and part of my duties would have been to monitor the air quality. When I mentioned this to my parents (as I was quite keen on the job), they said 'No Way'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 12 hours ago, Weebles said: We have just had the last bit of asbestos removed from our 1960s bungalow and demolition is now able to commence. Such a beautiful house.....it would have been a terrible shame if it was destroyed by fire by vandals and then the insurers had to clear up whatever was left . ( I had my commercial insurance renewal price this morning btw ). Another sobering thread for anyone not factoring such a budget-chewing expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Our bungalow burnt down during our planning application and people used to wink at me and say “ what a shame it burnt down” but I had to explain it was not insured, the premium was due and we were going to demolish it soon!! Ours was clad in asbestos and I did not know asbestos explodes in a fire so the site was covered in flakes of asbestos. The EA man turned up and instructed me to scrape the whole site clean and dispose in asbestos skips. No tests were done on what type of asbestos it was. He also never returned to check the Work was done. It cost me shed loads to remove all the bits, it would have been a lot cheaper to dismantle the sheets and put them in a skip to take away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: As far as I know, even back then, there was concerns about asbestos. In the UK regulations were introduced in 1931 but they only covered the manufacturing of asbestos, not workers subsequently using it. It was the increasing death rates from asbestosis, and mesothelioma that resulted in new regulations in 1969 that protected those working with it too, and there have been a stream of regulations since the 80s when its use started being banned. My hubby died from mesothelioma. It’s a death I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) I recall my mother's ironing board having an asbestos piece on the end to rest the hot iron....I also recall scraping at it causing flaky dust, there was a nice little hole to pick at for idle little fingers. Of course I didnt know it was asbestos and I’m sure my mother didnt either or she wouldnt have let us near it and it would have been out of the house in a flash. I have a progressive lung condition but not asbestos related (as far as I know) my condition generally only comes out in middle age. I was mid 40’s but all the signs were there a good 10 years before. I do think back to the ironing board sometimes and wonder if any of it got into my lungs and has yet to manifest itself......middle of the night stuff! At least I have an enhanced annuity as they dont think I will live long enough to collect a goodly sum from them over the longer term......I intend to do my best to prove them wrong!! Edited May 22, 2018 by lizzie 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 1 minute ago, lizzie said: I recall my mother's ironing board having an asbestos piece on the end to rest the hot iron....I I do think back to the ironing board sometimes and wonder if any of it got into my lings and has yet to manifest itself......middle of the night stuff! Yep, I remember my mother’s ironing board having that too! I suspect it would have mostly contained cement or similar however so I don’t think you should be unduly concerned about it. When I was at secondary school we had asbestos strips at the back of the science benches that were used for anything hot / on fire. It’s something you can’t really stress about TBH. The past is past. All you can do is protect yourself in the future so people need to be aware of the risks and not take risks with asbestos, but we can’t change the fact that we may have been exposed in the past. So many old buildings, schools, hospitals etc etc contain asbestos it’s unavoidable. It’s only when it’s disturbed that it becomes dangerous, and then only in certain people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivienz Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 We had our asbestos survey done a while back and it confirmed that there is asbestos present, all low grade and not requiring licensed work to dismantle. It's most old floor tiles inside the bungalow itself and the corrugated roofing on the concrete garage block. Even though this isn't a complex case, it will still cost ~£1100 + VAT for disposal, mainly due to the transport costs to get rid of it. It's easy to dispose of a small amount that may crop up in households from time to time but a skip load needs to go to a specialist facility, of which there are few. The nearest to us is Swindon and of that £1100, half of it is the transport cost. By the time the VAT and the cost of the survey are taken into account, it's the thick end of £2k for an uncomplicated case with nothing aggressive in it. It makes you pause for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebles Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 Although it has cost alot of our contingency fund we are pleased we paid the specialists to do the job. Not something worth mucking round with. The fire option mentioned by @Nickfromwales was tempting but my Dad had told me about the explosion risk (he'd seen a house go up in flames and chuck asbestos bits out everywhere) and we have already upset our neighbour enough by just living here ?. The asbestos filled sealed skip should be on its way to Swindon this week. We do occasionally find bits of chrysotile buried in the garden so goodness knows whats going to be under this house...... Thanks everyone for the supportive posts. Our project is finally getting underway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russdl Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 On 21/05/2018 at 20:55, Weebles said: Hope this is helpful to someone else. It certainly fore warned us of dark clouds approaching. We had a pre-demolition asbestos survey a few weeks ago on our 1950's bungalow and whilst I expected it to reveal some asbestos I was frankly amazed at how much there was, and where, it seems almost nothing was manufactured without asbestos. All the floor tiles in every room. Some wallpaper. Kitchen sink pad. Ceiling panels. Vent pipe. And then the soffits, which are Amosite, which by all accounts is the potentially nasty stuff and inflates the removal quote somewhat... First quote to remove all of it was £7550 + VAT! Second quote which we have just received is £4995 + VAT still pretty bloody hefty but a hell of a lot cheaper than the first. Do they just make it up as they go along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 It’s danger money most likely. Awful job for anyone to do and stay well away when it’s done. Would this not count as ‘demolition’ and zero rated if replaced by a new build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbJ Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 We went through a similar experience before demolishing in 2015. It doubled the cost of demolition. The majority of our asbestos was contained in the render on the house and this had to be removed manually, before we could demolish. Our demolition team also wore all the protective gear and it worried a new neighbour, who called out the Council to check if we were working safely - we were! Our experience was posted on Ebuild, at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 On 23/05/2018 at 22:25, Weebles said: Although it has cost alot of our contingency fund we are pleased we paid the specialists to do the job. Not something worth mucking round with. The fire option mentioned by @Nickfromwales was tempting but my Dad had told me about the explosion risk (he'd seen a house go up in flames and chuck asbestos bits out everywhere) and we have already upset our neighbour enough by just living here ?. The asbestos filled sealed skip should be on its way to Swindon this week. We do occasionally find bits of chrysotile buried in the garden so goodness knows whats going to be under this house...... Thanks everyone for the supportive posts. Our project is finally getting underway. Hopefully not very tempting at all when we reflect on the potential impact on our new neighbours and their families. It bears mentioning again that exposure need only be minimal ... the only time my dad ever worked directly with asbestos that we know was supervising some maintenance of asbestos insulated ventilation for a few weeks 40 years before the mesothelioma killed him. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 1 hour ago, newhome said: It’s danger money most likely. Awful job for anyone to do and stay well away when it’s done. Would this not count as ‘demolition’ and zero rated if replaced by a new build? Danger money indeed. When I was young (and skint) a friend who worked at Penryn Granite ( a quarry that's main product was crushed granite roadstone) asked if I wanted to work there for a bank holiday weekend and earn £200 cash in hand, no questions asked. The job was emptying out, cleaning and refitting several hundred bag filters from the dust extraction plant. Each felt filter bag was around 6ft long and 8" in diameter and virtually full of fine dust, high in silicates, extracted from the crushing plant. We did it, wearing respirators they gave us, but ended up completely white with very fine silicate dust at the end of each day, and were blown clean with an air lance (around 2" in diameter) driven by a massive Broomwade compressor. Around our faces we had a mess of silicate mud, from where sweat had mixed with the silicate dust. When we got paid on the Sunday night, we were all asked to give false names and addresses in a ledger, so that we would be untraceable as far as the company was concerned. It was only later, after we'd all developed a bad cough for a week or so afterwards, that I discovered the risks from silicate dust and the reason we'd been paid so much to clean the filters. Thankfully I don't seem to have any lasting effects, as I've had dozens of regular chest X rays over the years and all have been clear, and I don't think that silicosis has the same sort of delayed effect that asbestosis does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivienz Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Russdl said: It certainly fore warned us of dark clouds approaching. We had a pre-demolition asbestos survey a few weeks ago on our 1950's bungalow and whilst I expected it to reveal some asbestos I was frankly amazed at how much there was, and where, it seems almost nothing was manufactured without asbestos. All the floor tiles in every room. Some wallpaper. Kitchen sink pad. Ceiling panels. Vent pipe. And then the soffits, which are Amosite, which by all accounts is the potentially nasty stuff and inflates the removal quote somewhat... First quote to remove all of it was £7550 + VAT! Second quote which we have just received is £4995 + VAT still pretty bloody hefty but a hell of a lot cheaper than the first. Do they just make it up as they go along? Ouch, but nowhere near as bad as it could have been. No compensation, I know, but having just a hint of bats in the old bungalow cost us a good few thousand extra just so that we could get the damned thing demolished. One can hypothesise that had we had more asbestos, it might have done for the bats and the costs evened out in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Russdl said: Do they just make it up as they go along? We recently had Chrysotile boards removed from the walls and ceilings of our 1920s bungalow. We also removed all the Chrysotile roof slates ourselves and had them taken away. We had several quotes which varied between £4400 and £9500. We accepted the lowest and made sure they denailed and provided all the necessary documentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 53 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: It bears mentioning again that exposure need only be minimal ... the only time my dad ever worked directly with asbestos that we know was supervising some maintenance of asbestos insulated ventilation for a few weeks 40 years before the mesothelioma killed him. Totally. My hubby’s only known exposure was incidental when doing his electricians’ apprenticeship but it killed him 40 years later. Not a death I would wish on anyone. It grows round the lungs and squeezes the life out of you in a terrible way. More people are dying of mesothelioma than on the roads now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russdl Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 5 hours ago, newhome said: It’s danger money most likely I think you're right, despite lots of encouragement from 'friends' to "just rip it off and bury it". I'm not minded to take that route. 5 hours ago, newhome said: Would this not count as ‘demolition’ and zero rated if replaced by a new build? Excellent question. I've no idea at the moment - I'll find out and let you know. @Ferdinand @JSHarris @newhome Some pretty sobering tails there. I'll be getting the pro's in (the ones with the lowest quote!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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