Timber frame or brick & Block

[Ian D]

Have done loads of research but still can’t decide on a build method.

 

so thought I would through it open as I know most of you have used either or both methods in the past.

 

we like the idea of a timber frame cause it quick but what’s it like living in a timber frame I.e noise levels and heat efficiency.

 

have looked at scotframe ,potton,buildAKit, borderoak and Flemings 

 

[newhome]

4 minutes ago, Ian D said:

Have done loads of research but still can’t decide on a build method.

 

so thought I would through it open as I know most of you have used either or both methods in the past.

 

we like the idea of a timber frame cause it quick but what’s it like living in a timber frame I.e noise levels and heat efficiency.

 

have looked at scotframe ,potton,buildAKit, borderoak and Flemings 

 

 

I have a Scotframe house. It is relatively old now (ordered 2009) but I don’t think the noise levels are any worse than living in brick and block houses, that I’ve always owned prior to this one. Heat efficiency I will pass on as I have had a ‘few issues’ with my heating let’s say . We went for Supawall from Scotframe which at the time was their top insulation but times change and they do a different version now that is no doubt a lot better. Go for the best insulation you can. 

[dpmiller]

Also worth looking this side of the Irish Sea- Leadon, Kilbroney, Kudos, QTF etc

[CC45]

We are building timber frame - just me and no paid labour.  Its a lot of work.  The next one will be block and brick but with wide cavities.

[ProDave]

I am another timber frame fan.  Our last house and the present one under build are both timber frame.

 

I think it is far easier to achieve good insulation and air tightness with timber frame, it can be done with masonry but you are into a wide cavity to get enough insulation in, and good attention to detail to get decent air tightness.

 

The present build does not even have the usual vlockwork outer skin. Instead it has external wall insulation and render to improve things further.

[K78]

Cheap uninsulated timber frames look attractive when you first see the quotes but by the time you add insulation and a block work skin, I think the cost is higher. Insulated frames or sips are a better option. 

 

Concrete block cavity is the cheapest way to build if you know people in the trade imo. And is probably the route I will take. 

 

Ive had so many problems on and off site over the last 2 years, airtightness isn’t a big concern to me anymore. Just want my house up. 

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, Ian D said:

Have done loads of research but still can’t decide on a build method.

[...]

 

Try booking a long weekend holiday in a timber frame house / lodge. Plenty on MrGoogle

 

[Ian D]

56 minutes ago, K78 said:

Cheap uninsulated timber frames look attractive when you first see the quotes but by the time you add insulation and a block work skin, I think the cost is higher. Insulated frames or sips are a better option. 

 

Concrete block cavity is the cheapest way to build if you know people in the trade imo. And is probably the route I will take. 

 

Ive had so many problems on and off site over the last 2 years, airtightness isn’t a big concern to me anymore. Just want my house up. 

Do you internal breeze block and external Concerete block with insulation in the cavity .?

[Guest Alphonsox]

9 minutes ago, Ian D said:

Do you internal breeze block and external Concerete block with insulation in the cavity .?

 

Typically the cavity is partially filled with insulation - something like this....

 

The bigger problem that needs careful consideration is how you deal with thermal bridging. In the above picture the internal wall is in direct contact with the (cold) concrete slab. There are solutions but it does require attention to detail to solve.

 

[K78]

18 minutes ago, Ian D said:

Do you internal breeze block and external Concerete block with insulation in the cavity .?

 

I would use concrete block for both. Concrete is good at retaining heat if well insulated. I’ve had quotes as low as 60p a block for bulk orders with free delivery. 

 

I personally don’t see the point in timberframe if you’re doing a brickwork outer skin. 

 

Im doing either concrete block cavity or sips/insulated timberframe with cladding. 

[nod]

3 hours ago, Ian D said:

Have done loads of research but still can’t decide on a build method.

 

so thought I would through it open as I know most of you have used either or both methods in the past.

 

we like the idea of a timber frame cause it quick but what’s it like living in a timber frame I.e noise levels and heat efficiency.

 

have looked at scotframe ,potton,buildAKit, borderoak and Flemings 

 

I’ve done mine in block and block

Timber frame are easier to make airtight But if tradition is done right you will be able to make it airtight and easy to heat 

 

The big advantage of timber frame is that you can quickly get on with the inside

Disadvantage is the cost

[RandAbuild]

Timber frame every time if you want an airtight, well insulated house. Goes up (and can be weathertight) quickly, dimensionally more accurate than brick and block, easier to get better than BR u values  and I think you get lower noise levels (if you add sound insulation in the studwork and floors) than b&b.

The outer skin can also go up anytime so you're not driven by brickies' timescales.

The only thing I wish we had done was use SIPs for the roof - easier to make airtight and insulate than a traditional timber roof.

[Dreadnaught]

1 minute ago, RandAbuild said:

The only thing I wish we had done was use SIPs for the roof - easier to make airtight and insulate than a traditional timber roof.

 

That's a really interesting comment.  SIPs for the roof only. Attractive in addition as it offers particularly wide spans without a beam. I wonder if any timber-frame company (MBC?) offers the option of i-beam walls and SIP roof? Or whether they would need to be supplied by different companies.

[RandAbuild]

We didn't pursue a SIPs-for-the-roof-only route as we only received 1 quote from a SIPs company and they were nervous about our tight access. In fact the crane we hired for the TF would have made it a doddle, and as you say you can get wide spans and airtight joints easily.

Haven't found a timber frame company that does both - I'm sure there are some around.

[Declan52]

Both work well if done well but both can also be a disaster if done wrong. There is no right way really. Figure out what you want then go that way. I built mine in block as I was able to build it myself.

If it's block then a wide cavity with beads blown in. Don't let the brickie put in the insulation just don't. Wet plaster the inside to seal it up so your airtightness is good.

If it's timber frame make sure you go through each quote from all the different companies and see what isn't on the bill. Make sure all the u values are what you want it to be and if they give you a min airtightness target that they will get your build to is this low enough for what you want.

No matter what way you go it's all in the detail. Every little bit that gets done right all adds up. 

[joe90]

Well I went for block inner and brick outer with 300mm full fill cavity, airtighness should not be a problem because of wet plastering ( no dot and dab here thank you!’) I don’t like render as it so often requires painting regularly, bricks need no maintenance and gave us the cottage look we were after. Also the inner skin was concrete block not thermalite as I have seen too many problems with them.

[PeterW]

4” reclaims with 150mm blown bead cavity and then 100mm medium density block. Inner also has 25-75mm of Kingspan on it in 3 rooms downstairs too. Boards are foamed on or screwed to flush battens, then a decent skim. 

 

Feels very warm and very solid ..!

[Simplysimon]

timber kit every time, fast erection time and don't bother with brick skin it's an expensive rain screen. i beams for larger insulation space. see touchwood system. as been mentioned before cold bridging needs careful consideration.

[CC45]

I think a brickie would have achieved better plumbness etc that the frame errector did.  I've spent a long time making up for these simple errors.  Next one will be block and brick, blown in insulation and def corbelling.  Wet plaster throughout.  Timber wasnt a great choice for us since its only me doing the work and with a full time job, progress is slow.  So for us no time advantage.

 

Good luck with whatever you settle on.

[nod]

7 hours ago, CC45 said:

I think a brickie would have achieved better plumbness etc that the frame errector did.  I've spent a long time making up for these simple errors.  Next one will be block and brick, blown in insulation and def corbelling.  Wet plaster throughout.  Timber wasnt a great choice for us since its only me doing the work and with a full time job, progress is slow.  So for us no time advantage.

 

Good luck with whatever you settle on.

You make a good point The TF go up fast Somtines to fast I work on both It amazes me how far some of the TF can be out of aquare and out of plumb They usually blame the slab construction But seem to get away with it As it’s to difficult to alter afterwards 

 

[Ian D]

On 22/04/2018 at 13:06, dpmiller said:

Also worth looking this side of the Irish Sea- Leadon, Kilbroney, Kudos, QTF etc

Did what you said some great prices QTF look a good company any experience of these ?

Edited April 23, 2018 by Ian D

[dpmiller]

I seem to see them more in developments than single builds, along with McCavana and Unique. I don't think any are "worse" than any one else but the devil is very much in the detail.

 

Do try Leadon for a price- don't be put off by the out-of-date website, they're a very progressive company with a very cost-effective closed-panel 0.15 wall. Kieran is a true gent to deal with. He's certainly our choice for when the time comes...

[Ian D]

1 hour ago, dpmiller said:

I seem to see them more in developments than single builds, along with McCavana and Unique. I don't think any are "worse" than any one else but the devil is very much in the detail.

 

Do try Leadon for a price- don't be put off by the out-of-date website, they're a very progressive company with a very cost-effective closed-panel 0.15 wall. Kieran is a true gent to deal with. He's certainly our choice for when the time comes...

Thank you

[jack]

We built a timber frame house with 300mm pumped cellulose insulation.

 

For me, I found:

 

Pros: 

- Quick - factory built panels meant the whole thing went up in a matter of days.

- Accurate - internal walls etc are square, and rooms are exactly as shown on plan.

- Quiet - external noise is damped very well. Part of the quietness definitely comes down to decent windows though. 

- High decrement delay.

 

Cons:

- Internal noise transmission. This is the big one for me - I find it frustrating how noise makes its way between rooms. This might have been improved if the chancers who did my drywalling had installed the insulation better, but I'm not sure how much better it would have been.

- Internal well strength - we used fermacell anywhere we thought we might like to hang something, but even so, whenever I want to put something on a wall, I need to check whether it's fermacell, and if not, go about finding a stud (oo er vicar). Block walls would have been better.

- Vibration - again, maybe something that doesn't bother others, but slamming our (admittedly fairly large) front door causes windows in adjacent rooms to rattle. No big deal, but it constantly reminds me of the construction method. I suspect most others wouldn't find this as distracting as I do (I'm the guy who'll lie awake at night distracted by a mosquito three rooms away).

 

Overall, I'm happy enough with timber frame, but if I were doing it again I'd at least consider using some form of masonry-based construction. 

[Dreadnaught]

27 minutes ago, jack said:

We built a timber frame house

 

Out of interest, which timber-frame company did you use?