Selfbuild, a new career pathway?

[epsilonGreedy]

Has anyone turned their selfbuild experience into a second career?

 

I sense opportunity from my initial experiences in the selfbuild market.

 

1. Most traditional building trades are hopeless at dealing with the public in anything approximating to a normal consumer retail experience. They struggle with telephonic devices and email is a technology yet to be mastered.
2. Those who have productized self build are doing well e.g. Potton etc.
3. The demographic imbalance in our society is causing plummeting home ownership amoung the under 40's.
4. It is now Government policy to promote self build plot creation.
5. Fast evolving technology is creating fascinating new ways to fit out a house.
6. Many selfbuilds hit turbulence which results in multi-year delays before a habitable dwelling is created.

 

[nod]

31 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

Has anyone turned their selfbuild experience into a second career?

 

I sense opportunity from my initial experiences in the selfbuild market.

 

1. Most traditional building trades are hopeless at dealing with the public in anything approximating to a normal consumer retail experience. They struggle with telephonic devices and email is a technology yet to be mastered.
2. Those who have productized self build are doing well e.g. Potton etc.
3. The demographic imbalance in our society is causing plummeting home ownership amoung the under 40's.
4. It is now Government policy to promote self build plot creation.
5. Fast evolving technology is creating fascinating new ways to fit out a house.
6. Many selfbuilds hit turbulence which results in multi-year delays before a habitable dwelling is created.

 

 

Bit of a stereotype for builders 

 

Most I know wouldn’t manage without spread sheets

 

[ToughButterCup]

Depends what you call a career.

 

The   turbulence to which you refer has hit us almost as hard as flying a small microlight downwind of Preston on a hot Summer's afternoon: the thermic activity  there can be vicious.

Two building business owners have spoken to me this week of the rate of staff turnover in their small companies: both laughed outright when I told them of our woes in terms of reliable staffing  

'If we cant get the staff, then you'll have a really hard job'

 

So now, I have a second (fourth?) career. Building a house.

 

I didn't think I could drive a digger: now I can (quite well, I think). I had no idea about planning: now I do. I had never mixed concrete before: now I can do all sorts of stuff I never dreamed of with it. H+S was a closed book to me: it still is mostly. I hadn't a clue about scaffolding: now I have about £7k's worth and have a sensible, safe structure to work from.  I had no idea about levels, @nod came and helped me out; now I can do it for myself, I hadn't worked outside for 21 days at a stretch since the 1970s: now I often do. I had no idea how to build a roof, until with a bit of help, I did (still un-tiled). Another roof coming up.  I had no idea how to build a Durisol wall: now I can do so and take pleasure in doing it right. I feel sure that I am going to be able to put in our first floor - never done so, but in a month or so from now, I'll have everything in place to do it well.

 

In doing all of the above, I have saved a good deal of money - at a conservative  guess, about the average UK salary. A career? Nearly.

[Alexphd1]

I have been asking the same question recently, i have really enjoyed the experience up to now.

 

I reckon we have saved well over £600m2 over a single contractor price (like for like). One project a year,  full time on project no other commitments. Could be a very comfortable salary! 

 

Anybody looking for specialised insulted raft and icf builder in Aberdeenshire?? Form a orderly que here please 

[jamiehamy]

4 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

I didn't think I could drive a digger: now I can (quite well, I think). I had no idea about planning: now I do. I had never mixed concrete before: now I can do all sorts of stuff I never dreamed of with it. H+S was a closed book to me: it still is mostly. I hadn't a clue about scaffolding: now I have about £7k's worth and have a sensible, safe structure to work from.  I had no idea about levels, @nod came and helped me out; now I can do it for myself, I hadn't worked outside for 21 days at a stretch since the 1970s: now I often do. I had no idea how to build a roof, until with a bit of help, I did (still un-tiled). Another roof coming up.  I had no idea how to build a Durisol wall: now I can do so and take pleasure in doing it right. I feel sure that I am going to be able to put in our first floor - never done so, but in a month or so from now, I'll have everything in place to do it well.

 

In doing all of the above, I have saved a good deal of money - at a conservative  guess, about the average UK salary. A career? Nearly.

 

DId I not say something like this a few days ago @recoveringacademic  RA Construction Ltd.... 

Edited March 8, 2018 by jamiehamy

[Nickfromwales]

The knowledge you folk have 'had' to acquire is unique, as it's been hunted down in order to protect your interests, and to minimise costs ( aka maximise "profit" ) so ultimately, after completing a full build, you'd be formidable opponents of even the most seasoned of 'builders'. 

A builder friend of mine who's recently happened upon a 'few quid' has told me he'd rather now buy finished buy-to-lets and take the 7% or so return ( after unknowns ) than build houses to sell. 

Barking mad imo. 

[Construction Channel]

As long as you have the money to back the first project. There is nothing stopping you. But In real terms you will just be becoming a “developer”, I would do it myself if I could fulfill my first sentence ?

[Nickfromwales]

That's what's stopping me. Just a few quid short of living the dream.  

 

 

[SteamyTea]

When eBuild got shut down and we were kicking about idea via email and the temporary website.  I suggested that this website should be commercial and any profits ploughed back into a business that helps self builders.

The reason I suggested this was because of the high standard of people that contributed.

The idea was dismissed pretty quickly and sharply.

Shame as 'we' could probably develop a self build system that easily covered everything needed and sell it as a package.

 

But getting back to the main point of 'selling' a self build service.  What could it offer that others could not.  There are a lot of project managers about, many without jobs.

Edited March 8, 2018 by SteamyTea

[Nickfromwales]

44 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

and any profit

And that's where the dream takes a nose-dive. . 

If you create a business plan based on 'potential' income, and no paid staff, it doesn't live too long  

Hence our current model, the one with 1100 + members, and growing 

[NSS]

I suspect the 'could I make living doing this' question will have passed (however briefly) through the minds of many of us - it certainly has through mine. If I was 20 years younger I'd possibly have had the energy, but I'd also have had a young family (and all the commitments that went therewith), and none of the financial security required to take the risk.

 

Now that both my financial need and my parental responsibilities have diminished (in parallel with my energy levels), a part-time, low/modest income role that helped to keep me active (in mind as much as body) would be attractive. If that was assisting others who aspire to build better homes, be that for themselves or others, I'd jump at the chance.

 

 

Customer Advisor at B&Q anyone?

[SteamyTea]

8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

And that's where the dream takes a nose-dive

Sounds like you think that all new business are unsustainable

even ones with

8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

1100 + members, and growing

 

[Barney12]

Interesting thread. However at the risk of getting stoned by the residents here......

 

”Are we normal?” Do we represent the “average person”? My personal belief is a very strong “no”.

 

We are “special (needs? )” people. We spend thousands of hours sourcing the best possible outcome at the lowest price. None of us are going to accept a “packaged” solution with a packaged price. We crave understanding, detail and cost savings. If we’re spending money we want to understand what, where and when. 

 

So, can you take our ethos and “sell “ it to others? No.

 

Lets get really simple and split the demographics into three:

 

1. The “average”. They’re just not that interested. They’ll pop off and buy a house from a major developer. They care little (or more important have little desire/drivers to understand) issues like insulation levels. They’re just not going to see the value in paying the premium of your services. 

 

2. The “rich”. Will simply go to a high end developer/contractor/retailer/supplier and buy what they want. They’ll happily be taken in by the high end showroom and ego stroking. 

 

3. The “weird”. Yep that’s us here. We’re mavericks, despots, control freaks, suffer from immense OCD and (as we say down here in Devon) are as “tight as a ducks arse”!  

 

So were where is the niche angle? @Construction Channel already nailed it. You are simply talking about being a ‘developer’. Build houses to make a profit and that’s sounds ALOT simpler than it actually is, you’ll need some deep pockets. 

 

Ill get me coat. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Barney12

[Jeremy Harris]

+1 to the above. 

 

We are in no way representative of your average house buyer at all, I think.  Anyone looking to build their own home to meet their specific needs will almost certainly want to be so involved in the process that they would either have total control of it by doing a lot of work themselves, or would be a PITA as a customer...................

[ToughButterCup]

The Durisol rep dropped in on his way to another customer yesterday. He (says he) has work booked until November next year. 

And can't both recruit and retain staff. Unless, like him his family are fully involved,  in the Gig Economy,  you have little chance of keeping good staff. 

That's what'd kill off the notion of a career. 

 

Off out now to have another dose of the full-on DIY experience.

(Pssst, know a good roofer who'll work for next to nowt? )

[Declan52]

The simple fact is very few would make any money out of it. Most of the jobs that we have attempted have taken maybe 3-4 times longer to finish. Everything from painting and putting skirting on to boarding out all will have taken much longer than someone who had been doing it for years.

You could possibly do a project manager/ site foreman type role but after completing just 1 build are you really that experienced to over come any hurdle that might arise.

You could gain experience by doing older houses up like people do on TV shows like homes under the hammer but this requires enough capital to buy a house at auction first. But it would be an easier way in than dealing with peoples dreams who are self building as most of them are certifiably nuts.

[ToughButterCup]

2 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

The simple fact is [...] most of them (us) are certifiably nuts.

 

I never let that stop me 

[Ferdinand]

HOping to comment on this later.

 

But at least one Grand Designs person turned it into a career .. the chap who rebuilt his thatched cottage after a fire with the huge cathedral type window on the back became a project manager for small build projects.

 

Outside there are many people who do serial small builds but they tend to have cone from a specialism eg builder and so are really mini-developers. One of my plumbers :-) is trying to get into building as well as btl, but is struggling for plot sourcing nouse and capital.

 

F

[Ferdinand]

4 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

I never let that stop me 

 

But are we sustainable nuts?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/mar/02/is-it-ok-to-buy-nuts-from-california

Edited March 9, 2018 by Ferdinand

[MikeSharp01]

@Barney12 Agree - weird probably sums us up, Two things though.

 

1. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has" Margaret Mead.

 

1 hour ago, Barney12 said:

None of us are going to accept a “packaged” solution with a packaged price.

2. Perhaps we could extend this idea slightly. If we found a way to pool our expertise we might come up with a workable 'package' solution for factory built modules that would create affordable homes for the generation below us, our children, to live in sustainably.

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by MikeSharp01

[lizzie]

Phew would you want to project manage any of us on here. What a challenge that would be! Independent minded, stubborn, cutting edge, forward thinking, pushing barriers....all tags that apply to here.

 

Would you need some sort of PI insurance and if you don’t have any formal qualifications then that may be tricky.

 

OP not started his build yet if I recall......what looks good on paper doesnt always translate to action on site.

[Alexphd1]

Lizzie, you sound like a the perfect client. Wants something different, knows what she wants and open to new build methods to achieve this! 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Alexphd1

[Hecateh]

23 hours ago, NSS said:

Customer Advisor at B&Q anyone?

 

15 hours ago, Barney12 said:

1. The “average”. They’re just not that interested. They’ll pop off and buy a house from a major developer. They care little (or more important have little desire/drivers to understand) issues like insulation levels. They’re just not going to see the value in paying the premium of your services. 

 

2. The “rich”. Will simply go to a high end developer/contractor/retailer/supplier and buy what they want. They’ll happily be taken in by the high end showroom and ego stroking. 

 

3. The “weird”. Yep that’s us here. We’re mavericks, despots, control freaks, suffer from immense OCD and (as we say down here in Devon) are as “tight as a ducks arse”!  

 

 

Thoughts

 

A bit above B&Q support - not quite a consultant  ...  or maybe a consultant by another name ... 'projecteer'? 'mentor'?  (In the WWW world we aren't constrained by outdated notions, don't have to be onsite etc etc) Not in it to make huge amounts of money BUT as a supplementary income (perhaps supplementary to pension)  (Who would have thought a few years ago anyone could make an income from blogging, vlogging or the like)

 

Are we normal?  - NO.  Do I fit any of the profiles you have described? NO. Whilst I fully own my property I don't have an income and decided building in my garden was better than any of the boxes I could buy.  Whilst I can decorate and build flatpack that is about the limit of my practical skills.  I have arranged all the finances, utilities etc and am maintaining spreadsheets for cost etc.  I had no idea what I was letting myself in for. 

 

Whilst I like to control things, as an unfit (maybe in more than one way) single person in my 60's with minimal DIY skills, I have to hand over some control however unwillingly.  Am I average - I definitely hope not but there are others out there like me who don't have the skills or knowledge to go it alone but given the chance would really love to 'build' their own. 

 

What is often stopping them is lack of knowledge that it is a possibility and fear (often the biggest fear is being ripped off or taken for a ride).  

 

I read a statistic that says there are currently about 17000 people self-building each year.  There must be at least as many who would love to. 

 

My finished house won't be passive but it will be much much better than an off the peg from the likes of Barratt or whoever are the current mass builders

 

My finished house won't be high end - but it will suit my needs better than a mass market one.

 

My finished house will be much better than anything mass market I could have bought but it would have been even better, for the same cost, if I had known, when I started, what I know now and what I have learned from this site. I also don't know what my mental state would have been now if I hadn't found this site.

 

My finished house, despite spending a large proportion on labour costs will still come in at less than £150 sqm. 

 

I have no idea if anyone on here could make a career out of supporting novices to self build

 

I do believe there are some who could supplement their income by doing so if their concern stayed with support, education and material/labour sourcing rather than making a fortune especially bearing in mind self-build is currently being encouraged.  

I don't know what would have persuaded me to 'buy' the service of a 'projecteer'.  But (admittedly with hindsight) I think 5k for a projecteer (mentor??) who I trusted would have been good value and would have saved me more.  With a minimum specified access to interaction. 

Alternatively, an hourly rate for an open online chat, Research time to be negotiated (As in – I can check that out for you it will take me around x hours at £x per hour)

This may be a load of waffle (I am the good side of a bottle of wine) 

 

Marketing via Facebook?

15 hours ago, JSHarris said:

 

We are in no way representative of your average house buyer at all, I think.  Anyone looking to build their own home to meet their specific needs will almost certainly want to be so involved in the process that they would either have total control of it by doing a lot of work themselves, or would be a PITA as a customer...................

 

Whilst the most helpful on her are not representative of 'your average house buyer' neither are you necessarily representative of the average self build person.  

I'm sure that whilst many are like you  there are also many who know what they want but 'have' to let someone else decide how to get there.  For many of them, someone who would genuinely try to get them what they wanted without them having to learn a lot of skills they have neither the time nor the inclination to learn, would be worth their weight in gold.  

 

So far as I can see, the main issue is the marketing

 

[ProDave]

Are self builders "normal" of curse not.  In a conversation I was having yesterday, the phrase "self builder anoraks" popped into the conversation (not by me)

[Alexphd1]

Been called a lot worse than a self build anorak?

 

Certinaĺy a market out there for higher spec one off houses, or mbc wouldn't be in business.