Balcony Solar Is Coming!

[TedM]

Got to be good news!
I see a big demand coming from people wanting an outside socket fitting!

I've got a place by the beach that already has a small (3kWp) south facing array on the roof and I was thinking of adding a couple of panels facing west to get the afternoon/evening sun - this might be just the job!

[BotusBuild]

Beat me to it.  Good news

[FuerteStu]

Saw a balcony panel in Spain with a basketball net attached to the bottom.. 

Can't imagine that will last long 😂😂 

[Crofter]

Presumably you won't get export for this because it won't be MCS approved?

[TedM]

50 minutes ago, Crofter said:

Presumably you won't get export for this because it won't be MCS approved?

No, but it's only 800w so probably close to 100% self-use.

[MikeGrahamT21]

1 hour ago, Crofter said:

Presumably you won't get export for this because it won't be MCS approved?

 

Wonder how that will work for us existing solar panel owners with export in place, if we want a top up device?

[NSS]

10 minutes ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

 

Wonder how that will work for us existing solar panel owners with export in place, if we want a top up device?

I assume it won't go near the inverter and will just be direct use. May influence whether it's worth adding a battery though, and topping that up from the roof array rather than using or losing it.

[Crofter]

Now, how can I configure this so that my immersion heater comes on when I've got my plug-in solar generating?

[JohnMo]

11 minutes ago, Crofter said:

Now, how can I configure this so that my immersion heater comes on when I've got my plug-in solar generating?

Just the same way as would connected to CU. CT clamp on main wire between meter and CU.

[JohnMo]

25 minutes ago, NSS said:

I assume it won't go near the inverter and will just be direct use. May influence whether it's worth adding a battery though, and topping that up from the roof array rather than using or losing it.

Unless it has a CT clamp by meter, it will just export what isn't used by the house. If your current inverter has export limitations via a CT clamp, it would back off output from main system to compensate.

[JohnMo]

Think a lot of the plug in solar systems I have seen seem to be a couple of panels connected to a battery inverter and 3 pin plug (socket?)

 

If you have existing battery and PV, you may need to scratch your head how each play with each other.

Edited yesterday at 12:49 by Nickfromwales
Edit. Socket vs plug?

[AliG]

I have been looking at this and running the numbers.

 

It looks to me like you would get a better return on investment by just having a plug in battery and time shifting from overnight to daytime with around a 20p/kWh price differential.

 

The overnight electricity is so cheap that the extra cost of panels and inverter don't seem to pay for themselves.

 

However, if people do this it doesn't really help with part of the point of these systems which is presumably to add more distributed generating capacity.

[TedM]

11 minutes ago, AliG said:

The overnight electricity is so cheap that the extra cost of panels and inverter don't seem to pay for themselves.

It can be cheap at the moment (depends on your tariff) but who's to say what will happen in 12 months time.
One potential outcome is that as the number of EVs on the road increases so does the number of people using the spare overnight generation - so prices go up.
 

[AliG]

I have been expecting this to happen but no sign so far.

 

Daytime demand is still roughly 50% more than overnight.

 

I have tended to use 10-15p price differential to account for some closing of the gap over time when I do calculations. Some tariffs are at 25p differential at the moment.

[Dillsue]

From the government's Web site https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-make-plug-in-solar-available-within-months

 

"The government will work with the Energy Networks Association, DNOs and Ofgem to update the G98 distribution code and wiring regulations BS 7671 to allow UK households to connect <800W plug-in solar panels to domestic mains sockets, without the need for an electrician and with tailored safety standards"

 

Not sure that will get sorted in time for IKEA to be flogging plug in units anytime soon??

 

 

Edited yesterday at 15:40 by Dillsue

[SteamyTea]

13 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

Not sure that will get sorted in time for IKEA to be flogging plug in units anytime soon

I seem to remember that the plug in wind turbines were 1kW nameplated.

While they would very really generate half that, the rules may allow for 1kW to be fitted already.

I suspect it will not be the most cost effective method for home generation. A lot of people will buy them but place the panels badly and be very disappointed. That will lead to a lot of bad press and set back domestic PV installations.

 

[MikeGrahamT21]

1 hour ago, Dillsue said:

From the government's Web site https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-make-plug-in-solar-available-within-months

 

"The government will work with the Energy Networks Association, DNOs and Ofgem to update the G98 distribution code and wiring regulations BS 7671 to allow UK households to connect <800W plug-in solar panels to domestic mains sockets, without the need for an electrician and with tailored safety standards"

 

Not sure that will get sorted in time for IKEA to be flogging plug in units anytime soon??

 

 

By July 2026 according to what they said, so knowing our government could be 2027! 😂 

 

I’ve already got battery storage, CT is on the main feed in/out of the bungalow, so would assume plugging one of these in would just simply add to the input on whichever ring it’s on, and if it’s not required for load, either charge the battery or be exported?

 

I get SEG payments currently for export via my normal solar install from many years ago

[Dillsue]

1 hour ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

😂 

 

 

I get SEG payments currently for export via my normal solar install from many years ago

SEG is gov regulated so needs to be MCS installed. You'd need to notify your SEG payer if adding capacity.

 

If you're on a Power Purchase Agreement such as Octopus Outgoing then that's between you and Octopus:) Be interesting to see how the likes of Octopus handle export from plug in solar??

[Beelbeebub]

Predictably, the electricians are up in arms about this. 

 

The Uk's electrical wiring is apparently too different and so very fragile, compared to other countries, so we will all die in a shower of sparks and fire. 

 

I would be interested in the safety data from other countries where this is more popular. 

[saveasteading]

In Spain you can buy this in Leroy Merlin, so like walking out of B and Q with a system. And this is an upmarket one for pretty houses. Below this an obv very simple one showing a panel and a plug. Plug and Play it says. 450W

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike]

4 hours ago, saveasteading said:

In Spain you can buy this in Leroy Merlin, so like walking out of B and Q with a system

Leroy Merlin have the same models here in France too.

 

Lidl are selling an even cheaper 800W version here, though it has mixed reviews:

 

 

5 hours ago, Beelbeebub said:

The Uk's electrical wiring is apparently too different and so very fragile, compared to other countries

Maybe because UK RCBOs & circuit breakers are still, AFAIK, single pole (i.e. they cut only the live, not the neutral)? European circuit breakers are always double pole, which are safer than single pole under certain conditions*. So switching off the RCBO may leave all circuits with a live potential if the PV panels has been plugged into a reverse-wired socket, while the user thinks it's been isolated?

 

*so, in Europe, there's also no need for isolating switches next to extractor fans, ovens & other fixed appliances.

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Mike

[SteamyTea]

10 hours ago, Beelbeebub said:

compared to other countries

They have never been to France then.

[JohnMo]

17 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Think a lot of the plug in solar systems I have seen seem to be a couple of panels connected to a battery inverter and 3 pin plug (socket?)

 

If you have existing battery and PV, you may need to scratch your head how each play with each other.

Although amended by @Nickfromwales the inverter will have a 13A type plug, to allow it plug directly into a standard wall socket.

[MikeSharp01]

6 hours ago, Mike said:

Maybe because UK RCBOs & circuit breakers are still, AFAIK, single pole (i.e. they cut only the live, not the neutral)?

Don't the modern single block mcb+rcbo units do this, if not why do they have a neutral terminal.

[Nickfromwales]

3 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Although amended by @Nickfromwales the inverter will have a 13A type plug, to allow it plug directly into a standard wall socket.

Ah! How does it then not electrocute the poor sole holding the pins of the plug?