ToughButterCup Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 It's all @Construction Channel, @Barney12, @Triassic, @vfrdave ' s faults. I have decided to try and slate the roof of our little piggery. The key factor in my decision is the simplicity of the roof. It's five meters long and dead straight (now) Well, got to save money somehow. And as SWMBO says, it keeps me off the streets. I anticipate going into a lot of detail, so this post will be one of a few: I'll make a little navbar within this and subsequent posts. (There's nothing to link to yet, so the doesn't work). Why do that? Because it will make it easier for potential roofers to follow the threads. This (will be) one of a series [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] The background We have an old piggery which is not subject to Building Regs that has been knocked down (under Permitted Development) and rebuilt (badly: there's a really big curve in the west wall - one of the reasons we sacked the builder). Again at @Construction Channel's encouragement I built the roof like this.... using recycled wood from the shuttering disaster (another reason we sacked the builder) By the way, I colour-coded the recycled wood : red paint means there are or were nails in the wood, green means that the recycled wood is metal-free). Ask me why I do that now The roof now looks like this: I re-used some OSB left over from the shuttering and covered it with normal 'shed' felt. I thought I'd do a quick review of what others have posted about slate roofing (all summarised from BH posts where the term 'slate' is in the title: 'slate' in the title and content brings up too many results) @pudding posted a useful shopping list here for a similar project. As usual, there's good advice on costs and the causes of costs . There's reference to the roofing superstore. @Temp reminds us that battens need to be treated and meet BS5534. @pudding (and I) forgot to think about eaves protectors: but they're fairly cheap. @vfrdave's post here continues the concern about verges, his post raises issues I didn't even know about (unknown unknowns) ; drip profile, drip beads, Kytun dry verge, (and how to trim it, thanks @JSHarris) Nails. @Construction Channel's special subject when he gets on to Master Mind. Answer? Copper. Want the detail: it's here @Barney12 s post is the one that set me thinking about whether I could do it too. Several people suggested he look at YooChube videos: so here's a link to 20 or 30 relevant videos. @RichS advice on the above thread chimes well with what I have heard from several sources: take your time on the first (bottom) course. The issue of plastic slates is discussed here: they're news to me. Maybe I should consider them: shame there's no discussion on price in this thread.Size matters: there's a whole whirlwind of slate-related technobabble (just as bad as JavaScript coders) here, but within the post is this gem about traditional roofing ; and then there's the normal self-build concern 'How much? Ya jokin' mate' @Leaway asks about verge end caps. I don't know what a verge end cap might be: but this kind of explains what one is, and this link explains it properly (google image search) Then there's this quite important post about doing it yourself started by @Tin Soldier. It certainly put lead in my pencil about the whole issue. It's a must-read. Next: weighing the job up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandAbuild Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Ian - I don't know if this helps and I'm no expert, but our garage roof was finished yesterday. Charming though your old piggery is, you don't want to go over the top so the planning authority end up listing it! What are you intending to use it for? If it's for storage, then I'd go for the simplest solution. For example, use cement filleted verges (see cropped pic) and a wet ridge - they'll both see you out. You need to trim off those pointy rafter ends so you can get some guttering on there. I might be tempted to leave the OSB if it's reasonable quality, Sorry can't advise on gauging but there's loads of advice online. I expect you'll need a fairly small slate - ours were 500x250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 57 minutes ago, RandAbuild said: Ian - I don't know if this helps and I'm no expert, but our garage roof was finished yesterday. Charming though your old piggery is, you don't want to go over the top so the planning authority end up listing it! What are you intending to use it for? If it's for storage, then I'd go for the simplest solution. For example, use cement filleted verges (see cropped pic) and a wet ridge - they'll both see you out. You need to trim off those pointy rafter ends so you can get some guttering on there. I might be tempted to leave the OSB if it's reasonable quality, Sorry can't advise on gauging but there's loads of advice online. I expect you'll need a fairly small slate - ours were 500x250. Deliciously simple, and way better looking than a dry verge imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Well I'll be following this with great interest, I'm battling with the dry v wet verge question at the moment, and sourcing my materials ready for when the panel company leave the site in March I've watched heaps of videos, (I really like fixmyroof) and I am gaining confidence in doing it! Are you planning on roofing the house yourself too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 My outbuilding is tiled but I used the same verge system. I worked out how much the tiles would overhang the verge and fitted a row slates overhanging the verge to support the mortar later. Then fitted the tile battens, and the tiles then mortared the verge and ridge. I figured out it would be a lot of work lifting all the tiles onto the roof myself so hired someone to help out - passing tiles hand to hand rather than having to climb up and down the battens to get more made the job much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 17 hours ago, Temp said: My outbuilding is tiled but I used the same verge system. I worked out how much the tiles would overhang the verge and fitted a row slates overhanging the verge to support the mortar later. Then fitted the tile battens, and the tiles then mortared the verge and ridge. I figured out it would be a lot of work lifting all the tiles onto the roof myself so hired someone to help out - passing tiles hand to hand rather than having to climb up and down the battens to get more made the job much easier. I hired a bumper conveyer belt from speedy. £110 for the week. We were loading three crates of slates in under an hour. Talk about labour saving device. I'd not slated before but myself and my wife fixed 220 mtrs of slate ourselves and all the lead work for the chimney and flashings. It’s not that difficult. Start straight and keep checking your bond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Get a bit of lath and put a nail in one side so it sticks out the other side. Set up 6 slates on your roof as they would normally sit and then put the lath with the nail through it up against one side. Put a nail through the other end where the 6 tiles end. You can then go along the bottom and top lath and score with the nail where each 6 tiles should be. If you can get someone to give you a hand then a chalk line pinged from top to bottom will be an even better mark to tile to. This will keep your joins nice and straight when you look up. Def go a dry ridge system, lasts forever and so much easier than carrying buckets of motar onto the roof. Don't go to the expense of slate then put the plastic edges on for the verge. Looks horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) +1 on the dry ridge. Adds ventilation too. Edited January 26, 2018 by Nickfromwales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 4 hours ago, RandAbuild said: Ian - I don't know if this helps and I'm no expert, but our garage roof was finished yesterday. Charming though your old piggery is, you don't want to go over the top so the planning authority end up listing it! What are you intending to use it for? If it's for storage, then I'd go for the simplest solution. For example, use cement filleted verges (see cropped pic) and a wet ridge - they'll both see you out. You need to trim off those pointy rafter ends so you can get some guttering on there. I might be tempted to leave the OSB if it's reasonable quality, Sorry can't advise on gauging but there's loads of advice online. I expect you'll need a fairly small slate - ours were 500x250. [...] You are bang on with our thinking too: cement filleted verges and wet ridge is what we'd thought. And 250 by 500 is what the man from NW Roofing supplies suggested. The piggery is for storage - at the moment. But I took the precaution of 'connecting' the Piggery to the house by inserting four piles between the two buildings, so that at some stage we might link the house to the piggery without the set up costs of another piling session. The total added cost was £120 -instead of several thousand. I don't fully understand gauging yet: but I will by the end of this weekend. Thats what I love about BH: if you stick at it for long enough there is an answer to every question - you just need to be persistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Declan52 said: Get a bit of lath and put a nail in one side so it sticks out the other side. Set up 6 slates on your roof as they would normally sit [...] Put the lath with the nail through it up against one side (of the roof). Put a nail through the other end where the 6 tiles end. [...] Go along the bottom and top lath and score with the nail where each 6 tiles should be. If you can get someone to give you a hand then a chalk line pinged from top to bottom will be an even better mark to tile to. This will keep your joins nice and straight when you look up. [...] Worth reformatting your advice making quick and easy to scan and remember What about the three mm gap (between slates) that this bloke talks about @Declan52? (At 2:47, ostensibly to aid lateral spacing....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, nod said: [...] But myself and my wife fixed 220 mtrs of slate [...] What's Debbie's Day rate @nod ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: Worth reformatting your advice making quick and easy to scan and remember What about the three mm gap (between slates) that this bloke talks about @Declan52? (At 2:47, ostensibly to aid lateral spacing....) Include the gaps. I did say put the 6 slates on the roof as they would normally sit. Using this method works with all types of tile. Once you have the first 3 rows in you will be able to see if you need to open or close the gap to get your bond right across the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Tin Soldier said: [...] Are you planning on roofing the house yourself too? No, but yes if necessary. The Devil is in the detail, and at this time of year, speed will be of the essence. Our final roof covering is set to be shakes (not shingles): that is split oak. The shakes are merely decorative, the construction below that is still a bit of mystery to me, but as usual I know all I have to do is plug away at it, and I will get there. I don't think it'll take more than a week to research it thoroughly. Its a warm, vaulted roof with 9 by 2 rafters, so that should be fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Declan52 said: Include the gaps. [...] Once you have the first 3 rows in you will be able to see if you need to open or close the gap to get your bond right across the roof. Got it. Thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, recoveringacademic said: What's Debbie's Day rate @nod ? She worked for free As she keeps reminding me Inspite of the bad weather ( March) I think she enjoyed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, recoveringacademic said: What's Debbie's Day rate @nod ? You may find that you bennifit from using a few slate and a half’s Saves finishing up with a scratty pieces on the edge You can put a slate sideways on for your starter row Then once you have marked out it will all come together The best quote we had was around 8K for labour Which was more than expected But talk about using foam and silicone on awkward cuts and valleys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I asked my self build neighbour about his slate roof, he tells me is 70 year old mother in law sized the 3000ish second hand slated, then she and her daughter filled them all. I’m not sure I’d have the patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 Folks... should I leave the green felt in place (see OP above) under the counter battens when I fit them? Or should I take it off first, then fit the counter battens? I intend to fit Cromar Vent3 PRO over the counter battens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Felt needs to go .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 On 28/01/2018 at 17:39, PeterW said: Felt needs to go .... Get thee behind me Satan......... Give me fifteen good reasons why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1. Non breathable....... thats all i have..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, recoveringacademic said: Get thee behind me Satan......... Give me fifteen good reasons why. 1. non breathable 2. Flammable 3. Will sweat 4. Short lifespan 5. Degrades with heat not light 6. Edges will degrade leading to water ingress 7. No guarantee unlike membrane 8. If you need another 8, ask someone else .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Well, if you put it like that...... I was thinking of just leaving the green felt there and putting counter battens on top of it, and then proper membrane on top, followed by battens and tiles in the normal way. Why? Lazy. (Normal? Ha! Exceptional i.e. once only - ever - for me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 8. That’s shed felt not piggery felt 9. The roughness will trap water behind your counterbattens and rot them 10. The lap will cause a lump in your roof. 11. It will make your slates a complete waste of money 12. The sweating in point 3 will cause condensation inside and damage all your valuable tools along with rotting the ply 13. Everyone that sees along with everyone here will know you’ve done it and think less of you 14. Because peter told you not to 15. Because I’m telling you not to 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Ian......tek th' baaaastard felt off laaad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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