Looks like the party is over....

[ProDave]

41 minutes ago, Beelbeebub said:

For those that retired after 2016 the basic is just under 12k, so they onky be to earn £500 or so to start paying taxes.  

 

This (and the triple lock) is probably why there was a distinct upward kink from 2018/19ish.

 

So pretty much every pensioner who earns more than a few k from an old work place pension or maybe letting a room, or doing a day a week at the supermarket pays income tax. 

In fact, from next April, ALL pensioners under the new scheme will pay some tax, as the pension will go up to just above the tax threshold, but the threshold is not rising.  So over the next few years pensioners will pay more tax.

 

Add in a personal pension as well (shock, horror, current pensioners are more likely to also have a personal pension) that is more tax to pay.

 

I know my circumstances are not average, but by the time me and SWMBO reach state pension age, our combined income will be more than we have been earning for the last 25 years.

[SimonD]

7 minutes ago, ProDave said:

In fact, from next April, ALL pensioners under the new scheme will pay some tax, as the pension will go up to just above the tax threshold, but the threshold is not rising.  So over the next few years pensioners will pay more tax.

 

As is appearing quite typical of this government, they've realised the problem after the fact and are now trying to reassure pensioners that if their sole income is from pension, they won't pay any tax even if it is above the threshold.

 

It's not too dissimilar to the 3p/mile tax on EVs which is another, we're going to do this but haven't got a clue how. Then some clever bean will think we'll just roll out a kind of start meter to be installed, and just like smart meters or fibre broadband it'll be privatised and roll out will maybe happen by 2080....or some other century in the future and use shite technology that doesn't work properly because the infratructure it needs hasn't been installed either.

 

And they wonder why there's a productivity problem in the UK.

[ProDave]

3 minutes ago, SimonD said:

As is appearing quite typical of this government, they've realised the problem after the fact and are now trying to reassure pensioners that if their sole income is from pension, they won't pay any tax even if it is above the threshold.

It's a failure of all governments over my lifetime.  The basic problem is we have 5 year parliaments, so nobody, ever, pledges to do something over a long period.  It is all about what we will do for the next 5 years that will be popular enough to get us a win next time.

 

So there has never been any long term planning.  The fact there are more pensioners than ever and fewer of working age is entirely predictable as the ongoing result of the post war baby boom, but no one has planned in advance how we will invest and adapt to cope with that change.

[Iceverge]

Grants typically just shove up prices. 

 

A progressive carbon tax would have been better money than any grants in my opinion. 

 

And government to get out of the way. 

 

For example a blanket planning (and listed building ) exemption to any house changes reducing its energy use. 

 

Triple Glazing, EWI, ASHP, solar etc etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SimonD]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

It's a failure of all governments over my lifetime.

 

Yep, maybe it's just my age, but it seems to be getting worse by the parliament.

[SimonD]

17 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

Grants typically just shove up prices. 

 

A progressive carbon tax would have been better money than any grants in my opinion. 

 

And government to get out of the way. 

 

For example a blanket planning (and listed building ) exemption to any house changes reducing its energy use. 

 

Triple Glazing, EWI, ASHP, solar etc etc. 

 

 

Somewhere recently I saw some data showing that heat pump uptake follows a curve of parity between fossil fuel prices and electricity - the closer the parity the higher the uptake. something which largely disproves the capital cost argument.

 

 

Interestingly the figures show that heat pumps provide the biggest bang for the buck when it comes carbon savings, even over insulation measures. 

 

I still cannot fathom why our electricity prices are the way they are and how this can in any way be justified other than in terms of profits for energy companies and their shareholders. 

[Iceverge]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

So there has never been any long term planning.  The fact there are more pensioners than ever and fewer of working age is entirely predictable as the ongoing result of the post war baby boom, but no one has planned in advance how we will invest and adapt to cope with that change.

 

It's an issue. 

 

In the UK 60 years ago there was 4 workers for every pensioner. It's closer to 3 now. 

 

In the 1960s pensioners were 6% of the voters, now they're closer to 18%. 

 

Policy is following the votes.

 

Underspending on new housing, infrastructure, energy and education in favour of protecting homeowner tax breaks, pension protection and old age healthcare.

 

These policies aren't economical productive so the county is suffering. 

 

Retirement should be raised to 75 years old to match the 1960's ratios or this problem will deepen. 

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

7 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

Retirement should be raised to 75 years old to match the 1960's ratios or this problem will deepen. 

Radical Thinking - but maybe where we are heading. Our children, in their 30s, will defo not retire before 70!

 

[Iceverge]

50 minutes ago, SimonD said:

I still cannot fathom why our electricity prices are the way they are and how this can in any way be justified other than in terms of profits for energy companies and their shareholders. 

 

At brief glance I reckon they're inline with most other European economies? Exemptions being the Nordics with good hydro and nuclear and Hungary and Turkey with government price controls?

 

On the other hand I think private enterprise short termism is a bad fit for vital public services like transport, energy, water etc . The likes of EDF and Thames Water should be trading only in decades long bonds to force them to take a long view rather than normal shares and dividends. 

[Iceverge]

8 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Radical Thinking - but maybe where we are heading. Our children, in their 30s, will defo not retire before 70!

 

 

My day job isn't climbing scaffold or screeding concrete so barring any disastrous health problems I expect I could do it until at least then. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SimonD]

53 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

At brief glance I reckon they're inline with most other European economies? Exemptions being the Nordics with good hydro and nuclear and Hungary and Turkey with government price controls?

 

I think we're mostly on a par with Germany in terms of highest costs. It's no surprise given both rely so much on gas.

 

But there are so many inconsistencies that make little sense from the perspective of an environmental policy.

 

We still subsidise fossils fuels to the tune of £17.5 billion per year. The greatest increase in electricity costs are relating to wholesale costs and social/environmental costs on the average bill since 2021. It seems strange given the profits made by producers and that Gas has not been significantly levied from a social and environmental perspective, but is privy to significant subsidies beyond the subsidies available for renewables.

 

Yes, the government has announced some reductions for electricity in the budget, but we'll have to see how that pans out in reality.