Objections: the best invalid objection you've heard

[ToughButterCup]

Sitting in another Parish Committee meeting (I'm not a councillor), I regularly hear invalid reasons for objection put forward.    The best of tonight's crop were;

'.... the design includes a lift.... and  I think it's going to be used as a care home...', and that from a Councillor

So, I spent a few moments googling 'invalid reasons for objecting to planning applications'

And this is what I found;

• Martin Goodhall's planning blog
• K S Law's site
• Clackmannashire's planning site
• Designing Buildings Wiki
• The Government's own advice (read 'What Cannot Be Considered')

I spoke up, and said that I thought speculation about motive for the build was probably unwise, and might well be improper (impugning the application).  Got shot at for saying that.   That's absolutely fine by me. It's a privilege to be taken to task for openness. 

None of us is getting older are we? None of us are going to need a lift in our old age. Everyone uses stair-lifts.

What's the 'worst' reason for objection you've heard?

  

Edited July 21, 2016 by recoveringacademic
improve the tag list, add the gov.uk official advice on invalid reasons

[Oz07]

Slightly digress. 

I think these parish councils should risk any future 106/cil funding if they call an application into committee and it gains permission. Might make them think twice about calling something into committee when they have no actual valid reason. They need something to lose

These parish councillors are nothing but a pain in the arse when it comes to development. Nimbys the lot of them. 

[Tennentslager]

What's a parish council...they all Catholic.

We don't have local democracy up here

[ProDave]

We are more "politically correct" up here, and we have a "community council" instead.

One local community councillor objected to a poly tunnel that had been errected in a field on a farm near here to grow vegetables in. Have some people got nothing better to do?

 

[PeterW]

Applied for outline planning in a village and it went to Parish Council and I went along. 

First comment - " it's not in keeping with the village...."

D&A statement had 12 photos of buildings in the village that showed how it matched. So I advised it did, and that it was actually a copy of the barn conversion at the other end of the village ...

The killer comment - " you can't just go around the village copying other people's houses, it's not right !!"

Suffice to say I withdrew the application !

[Jeremy Harris]

I was temporarily co-opted on to a a working group set up by three adjacent parish councils, that was set up to deal with a big planning application to turn Boscombe Down airfield into a commercial night air freight airport (it has only ever really operated daylight hours, and then fairly infrequently).

One consequence of this was that I ended up on the planning committee, and one application sticks in my mind.  It was a local farmer, who had purchased a new forage harvester and wanted planning consent to close his existing farm entrance and create a new one 50 yards up the road, that was both wider and a lot safer, as it was on a straight stretch of road rather than on a bend.  The application also included the relocation of a public footpath, that ran up the existing drive entrance.

I had read the application before the meeting, could see no reason not to recommend approval, so said so.  The proposal would improve road safety, allow the farmer to get his new machinery in and out more easily and actually made the footpath align better with one on the other side of the road.

We had one, very vociferous, objector on the committee.  Not knowing him at all, I asked why, given all the benefits the proposal had, he was objecting.  It turned out that he'd been (quite rightly) told off by the farmer for walking across his land with his dog off a lead (it's a mixed farm, arable and sheep).  This was, apparently, a valid reason for objecting to a perfectly acceptable planning application.....................

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, Tennentslager said:

What's a parish council...they all Catholic.

We don't have local democracy up here

They are the lowest tier of Civil Government in England.

They have their roots in the 19c as bodies which inherited the secular duties of Parochial Church Councils - which are the governing bodies of Church of England churches.

Many of the boundaries go back for the best part of 1000 years iirc, and may go back significantly further but you need a historian or Morris Dancer to explain that properly.

Ferdinand

 

Edited June 13, 2016 by Ferdinand

[ToughButterCup]

7 hours ago, PeterW said:

Applied for outline planning in a village and it went to Parish Council and I went along. 

First comment - " it's not in keeping with the village...."

[...]

The killer comment - " you can't just go around the village copying other people's houses, it's not right !!"

[...]

I had exactly the opposite: they wanted a chocolate box hamlet.

I reminded them that the street in which the Councillors all (by chance) lived had examples of design and build from every century since the 17th. 

I'm just too optimistic about people's ability to think.

[ToughButterCup]

6 hours ago, JSHarris said:

[...], I asked why, given all the benefits the proposal had, he was objecting.  It turned out that he'd been (quite rightly) told off by the farmer for walking across his land with his dog off a lead [...]  This was, apparently, a valid reason for objecting to a perfectly acceptable planning application.....................

Well, that takes the biscuit. 

[Ferdinand]

I had:

"I'm not sure it is inside the development boundary", or some such, from a Councillor at the Planning Meeting.

The boundary is about quarter of a mile away, away from town.

Ferdinand

 

Edited June 14, 2016 by Ferdinand

[joe90]

Well, you all know the two year fight I have had to replace a dwelling with a "typical" Devon cottage in Devon in over an acre of our own land. It was called into committee and when they visited site nearly all of them said " what is wrong with their proposal, it fits very well with the surroundings." At the planning meeting they had all changed their tune and would not even look at me, they had been got at and told to refuse it ( I am reliably informed by a local farmer) they want a bungalow or room in roof. Roll on the 15th September when my appeal to the Secretary of State gets decided ( even the planner who was against it told me I would probably win on appeal !!!!)

[DeeJunFan]

I'm building in a field to the rear of my parents house.  My house is to the rear and lower down.

Application was supported by a number of letters including from my parents.

Not just once but twice on the first refusal.

"This development would reduce the enjoyment of my parents dwelling"

Its in a field next to a house of the exact same design.  2 storey rectangle.

"This development is not in keeping with the local area"

Best one.  As above house is to the rear of my parents house.  The only house on the road that is to the rear of another.

"This development would break rules to reduce ribbon development"  - The only house not built on the ribbon!

Only took 4 years to sort through all the refusals!

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, DeeJunFan said:

I'm building in a field to the rear of my parents house.  My house is to the rear and lower down.

Application was supported by a number of letters including from my parents.

Not just once but twice on the first refusal.

"This development would reduce the enjoyment of my parents dwelling"

Its in a field next to a house of the exact same design.  2 storey rectangle.

"This development is not in keeping with the local area"

Best one.  As above house is to the rear of my parents house.  The only house on the road that is to the rear of another.

"This development would break rules to reduce ribbon development"  - The only house not built on the ribbon!

Only took 4 years to sort through all the refusals!

Have you had the one about Backlands development?

[DeeJunFan]

No they stopped adding reasons for refusal.

I had a meeting with head planner for NI, MLA and had a letter from an MP.

We had crazy draft planning policy over here for a few years and no-one wanted to make a decision based on the draft policy.

[ragg987]

In the interest of balance, I want to chip in with my very positive experience.

I took the view that there is a "chain of events" that leads to irrational objections, and that I would try to manage the chain to the best of my ability.

Link 1: I spoke to the neighbours prior to planning application. Took them through the design principles and rationale, then through the possible impacts we had already taken on board like impact to their light, overbearing, street view, privacy etc. At this point we were left with minor concerns about aesthetics - as far as I was concerned these were immaterial for the application.

Link 2: one neighbour was very supportive in the above so I asked them to say so once we got the application in. I believe this helped set the tone for subsequent responses.

Link 3: I took the Chair of the Parish Council through the above 2 aspects. I could see they had a history of objecting to recent applications, so once I had pitched it I asked an open question "under what conditions would the Parish Council be willing to support such an application". I did not expect the PC to endorse the scheme completely, but I wanted to sow the thought so as to try and break from any canned response.

Link 4: On the day of the PC meeting, I spoke to reinforce some key messages. Neighbours were generally supportive. So PC took the view that they would not object.

Of course all these views are only taken into consideration, so the most important aspects was to ensure we worked with architect to take care of any real reasons that the planners might use to refuse it. We also took the view that putting in an informal application would be counter-productive as, once a planner had provided informal feedback, chances were this became a reason to beat us with later.

Planning was granted with no request to change anything. Our new build is double the footprint of the bungalow it replaced.

[curlewhouse]

We initially had an objection from a parish councillor that our house would spoil the view of a pele tower (Northumbrian fortified house). We looked at it and discovered that to get the pele tower AND our proposed house in the same line of view, to find the only point where you could do this you had to go and stand in my parents chicken run! I politely pointed out that I had asked them and the chickens had offered no objection..... heard no more about it. 

[MarkH]

Our local planning commitee made the process of getting any permission on our plot such a nightmare for the prior owners (our friends) that - even though they eventually won on appeal to the welsh assembly - they gave up on what had been their dream home and sold the plot to us. Some of the stipulations included moving the driveway and lowering the ridgeline to avoid offending the sensibilies of passers-by (we have, at most, maybe a half dozen walkers wander past PER MONTH), planting trees to hide the house from the neighbours (half a mile away)... the list goes on... 

 

What is interesting is that just one mile away as the crow flies the former vice-chairman of our planning commitee built TWO houses on a greenfield site without any planning application, let alone permission.

[jack]

On 6/15/2016 at 16:59, ragg987 said:

I took the view that there is a "chain of events" that leads to irrational objections, and that I would try to manage the chain to the best of my ability.

...

Of course all these views are only taken into consideration, so the most important aspects was to ensure we worked with architect to take care of any real reasons that the planners might use to refuse it. We also took the view that putting in an informal application would be counter-productive as, once a planner had provided informal feedback, chances were this became a reason to beat us with later.

Planning was granted with no request to change anything. Our new build is double the footprint of the bungalow it replaced.

We took an almost identical approach, and our result (replacing a tiny bungalow with a large house) was very similar to yours, except that ours didn't end up in committee.  We were quite surprised by that given how modern the house is compared to those around it.

 

Of course, had one of the local trouble-making councillors got hold of it, the story could well have been different.  I hope we'd have won in the end but I'm not sure whether we'd have had the appetite for another two years in a tiny damp bungalow while we appealed.

[swisscheese]

....the Small Patch of "green roof" we have planned is actually a roof garden for entertaining and holding drinks parties on.....seriously suggested as our motive by the Parish Council.

I said "No it's not a roof garden, it's a small Green roof, there is no access to it, there is no retaining balustrade..."

"What's a green roof" came the reply....I knew then it would be a long slog.....

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

@swisscheese , moments like that are character-forming (I tell myself). However, in relation to discussions with Councillors, I find myself less tolerant, less generous in my interpretation of obviously avoidable insolence.

 

"I don't believe that any house with space for 5 cars is going to have only two bedrooms." said straight-faced by the now Chair of the Parish Council at a public meeting. Debbie's stiletto digging in my foot forced a painful silence. The Councillor didn't even have the good grace to  blush during the ensuing pause.

 

[jamiehamy]

I am on our local Community Council - we tend to avoid commenting on planning issues unless we have specific representations made to us - I think we support more than we object. 

 

One application sticks out from the neighbouring CC - they objected to a driveway being created because the car shown in the driveway is smaller than the car the people actually own and this was misrepresentation....

[ToughButterCup]

LMAO

[LSB]

On 13/06/2016 at 21:11, Oz07 said:

Slightly digress. 

I think these parish councils should risk any future 106/cil funding if they call an application into committee and it gains permission. Might make them think twice about calling something into committee when they have no actual valid reason. They need something to lose

These parish councillors are nothing but a pain in the arse when it comes to development. Nimbys the lot of them. 

I'm a parish councillor and our parish is not populated by Nimbys, the only applications that we disagree to are those that are in the flood plain or generally rubbish.

And you are wrong, PC's cannot get an app to go to committee, if they object and there are other objections then that will go to committee or if the application is at all suspect then it will go.  Also, it is only town councils that benefit from CIL, small parishes get nothing as it is very unusual for developers to get permission in small villages.

There are regularly apps that we approve, but still get refused by the LPA, the reality is we only have an opinion the same as anyone else.

 

[the_r_sole]

The best objection I've ever had to one of my projects was that the extension should be refused because the water pipes were only 12mm and wouldn't be able to support the new en suite...

(Objection from the previous owners son) ?

[DevilDamo]