My self-build DIY plumbing

[Nickfromwales]

14 hours ago, Thorfun said:

the lovely wife bakes lovely cakes if that helps?

I am proceeding to site on foot…….

[Thorfun]

10 hours ago, Radian said:

There's something a bit odd about plumbing that always makes me put off doing any for as long as possible - until I finally cave in and dig out the plumbing toolbox. Once started, I don't want to stop. Funny that. I think it's a confidence thing, more so than with other DIY tasks.

yes, exactly this! it's what I was alluding to when I said 'take the first step'. I know I'll be fine once I've got going but it's very much a case of fear and lack of confidence due to the fear. glad it's not just me then!

[markc]

A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step (which is always the hardest), make a start and momentum takes over … get on with it!

[joe90]

Well I used to be old school (copper everywhere ) but our @Nickfromwales converted me to hep20. Manifold and no joins between ends, been brilliant, no problems, 10mm to basins and toilets.

[Radian]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

Well I used to be old school (copper everywhere ) but our @Nickfromwales converted me to hep20. Manifold and no joins between ends, been brilliant, no problems, 10mm to basins and toilets.

I can't exactly say why, but I still prefer copper. Especially for big bits of CH run in 22mm and 28mm. Next tap I plumb in might be hep20.

[Simon R]

15 hours ago, Thorfun said:

am flying by the seat of my pants with this stuff. oh.....don't get me wrong....I've installed bathrooms, kitchens, toilets and the like on a DIY basis

Me too.

Ours is all done now, hep push fit and plastic pipes used to keep the number of joints down. I don't have underfloor heating but do have pumped rain water.

I air pressure tested each section of piping as I went, pressurising it and checking the gauge the next morning.  Also where practical I tried to keep joints in accessible locations, we have lots of "routabout" hatches.

By testing as I went along it was fare less stressful when the water got switched on. I had a couple of leaks where I managed to put a plasterboard screw through central heating pipes, but dry other than that. Pressure testing threw up a few bad joints, all where I had failed to fully insert the pipe into the fitting. I pretty quickly got into the habit of using a sharpie to mark the pipe so I could easily see if it had fully located.

One area that cased a few headaches were shower trays. Our ground floor is a concrete raft and despite best efforts to accurately position soil pipes it took a bit of fiddling to get the trays right. I even ended up building a partition wall in slightly different location so the shower drain matched. The toilets were not so bad as we have wall mounted pans which means there is some flexibility in the couplings.

I'm on the south coast, just west of Portsmouth so probably not to far from you. Let me know if you want some help.

 

[Gone West]

I designed a manifold system and used plastic pipe, never done it before but it worked out ok.

 

 

 

 

[HughF]

I’m going to be the outlier here and say I do everything in pressed  mlcp - in European sizes. Mainly because I ‘found’ a press gun, and I hoover up second hand pipe off Facebook when I’m bored. Got enough to do half the house now.

 

Eurocones where required to go onto compression stuff, although direct press isolation valves are becoming a thing now.

[joe90]

Mine was much simpler and decided not to have individual stop valves and used hep20 manifold bits.

[RobLe]

22 years ago, we had a load of work done on the house, yes it was a while back!  The plumber used grey plastic push fit joints and bends onto copper pipe, there were maybe 20 or so of them.  I think they have a rubber O ring and one way metal barbs inside.  I don’t know what type, he said he used them because they were quick.  Over the years about 5 have leaked, randomly.  They start slow, the leak gets worse and worse… The inaccessible one behind the bath leaked for ages before I found it, made a mess of the ceiling, grrr.  
Soldered copper, or a crimped joint for me.

[Pocster]

Hep2o is basically bomb proof . Any idiot can install it - I am proof 

[Thorfun]

50 minutes ago, Simon R said:

Me too.

Ours is all done now, hep push fit and plastic pipes used to keep the number of joints down. I don't have underfloor heating but do have pumped rain water.

I air pressure tested each section of piping as I went, pressurising it and checking the gauge the next morning.  Also where practical I tried to keep joints in accessible locations, we have lots of "routabout" hatches.

By testing as I went along it was fare less stressful when the water got switched on. I had a couple of leaks where I managed to put a plasterboard screw through central heating pipes, but dry other than that. Pressure testing threw up a few bad joints, all where I had failed to fully insert the pipe into the fitting. I pretty quickly got into the habit of using a sharpie to mark the pipe so I could easily see if it had fully located.

One area that cased a few headaches were shower trays. Our ground floor is a concrete raft and despite best efforts to accurately position soil pipes it took a bit of fiddling to get the trays right. I even ended up building a partition wall in slightly different location so the shower drain matched. The toilets were not so bad as we have wall mounted pans which means there is some flexibility in the couplings.

I'm on the south coast, just west of Portsmouth so probably not to far from you. Let me know if you want some help.

 

thank you! great advice and I'll let you know. 🙂 

[Thorfun]

35 minutes ago, Gone West said:

I designed a manifold system and used plastic pipe, never done it before but it worked out ok.

 

 

 

 

yep. seen your posts on this thing of beauty! if I can get it half as good as yours I'll be very happy.

[Thorfun]

21 minutes ago, HughF said:

I’m going to be the outlier here and say I do everything in pressed  mlcp - in European sizes. Mainly because I ‘found’ a press gun, and I hoover up second hand pipe off Facebook when I’m bored. Got enough to do half the house now.

 

Eurocones where required to go onto compression stuff, although direct press isolation valves are becoming a thing now.

good on you but too much faff for me. I'd much rather just pop to Screwfix and pick up some more Hep2o fixings!

[Thorfun]

6 minutes ago, pocster said:

Hep2o is basically bomb proof . Any idiot can install it - I am proof 

you're my hero

[PeterW]

Hep2O where it’s not seen and run through joists and walls in long runs, end feed copper where it is seen and I want it rigid - takes a bit more time but makes me happy to see it (and then cover it up with insulation …

 

@Thorfun when you are running Hep2O pipe, drill any holes oversize and sleeve with either overflow pipe (21mm) for 15mm pipe or 32mm waste for 22mm pipe runs. It stops you scoring the pipe and creating potential joint weeps. If you’ve got metal web joists you can just zip tie the short sections on to the webs. 

[SteamyTea]

47 minutes ago, Gone West said:

Reminds me of Mousetrap

[Thorfun]

2 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Hep2O where it’s not seen and run through joists and walls in long runs, end feed copper where it is seen and I want it rigid - takes a bit more time but makes me happy to see it (and then cover it up with insulation …

 

@Thorfun when you are running Hep2O pipe, drill any holes oversize and sleeve with either overflow pipe (21mm) for 15mm pipe or 32mm waste for 22mm pipe runs. It stops you scoring the pipe and creating potential joint weeps. If you’ve got metal web joists you can just zip tie the short sections on to the webs. 

thank you! added that gem of info to my cheat sheet

[Carrerahill]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

Well I used to be old school (copper everywhere ) but our @Nickfromwales converted me to hep20. Manifold and no joins between ends, been brilliant, no problems, 10mm to basins and toilets.

I go soldered copper every time, it costs me lots of time and extra £ as I have not been convinced otherwise yet. However, pipe unions and couplers are far cheaper and a bottle of gas, roll of solder and tub of flux will last about 6 self builds so apart from pipe being more pricey and longer to install, I think copper might come in about cost neutral when you can solder in a 90° for about 50p all in.

 

Last year I wanted my boiler moving, I needed to move the cold feed and hot return, I did it in copper, took me a weekend. I could have used 2 pieces off a roll of 15mm plastic and probably done it in about 4-5 hours. The copper was all bent perfectly and soldered and run up through a cupboard clipped perfectly straight to the wall and through the first floor. It looks great. But on the day the gasman came to connect my new pipes to the new boiler he did the change over within the first floor on plastic... I was not pleased. I plan to change it to copper unless someone can really convince me its OK. He used JG.

 

I have done lots of JG Speedfit over the years from putting kitchens into our business premises and for family who want plumbing done and just buy JG as they can do it. But not in my own house.

 

I need to increase some CH pipes from 15mm to 22mm and its going under the floor, getting copper in will involve drilling a hole in the house to feed the pipes under the house, maybe I should just use plastic but cannot bring myself to do it...

 

 

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

10mm to basins and toilets

this is what I'm planning but I was speaking to a retired plumber and he said that 10mm pipe will cause basin taps to just trickle and he thought it'd be a massive mistake. when I pointed out that it was a manifold system and so short-ish runs he still insisted on 15mm pipe. obviously, I will do a flow test and some form of pressure drop calculations and double check with the knowledgable ones on here before finalising my design!

[Pocster]

14 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

you're my hero

For a self build and zero plumbing skill it is the only way to go . Obviously for purists and those with experience may prefer copper etc . Hep2o skill required is almost zero . Once you’ve done a run you’ll see how easy it is . Funnily enough I’m doing some today . Off my manifold of manifolds . Hot & cold to basin then run for toilet supply . 

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, Thorfun said:

this is what I'm planning but I was speaking to a retired plumber and he said that 10mm pipe will cause basin taps to just trickle and he thought it'd be a massive mistake. when I pointed out that it was a manifold system and so short-ish runs he still insisted on 15mm pipe. obviously, I will do a flow test and some form of pressure drop calculations and double check with the knowledgable ones on here before finalising my design!

Do 15mm then no issues 

[Thorfun]

2 minutes ago, pocster said:

Do 15mm then no issues 

indeed, except I've already bought 100m of 10mm hep2o, although I'm sure SF will take it back.

 

and less dead leg to get rid of with 10mm

Edited October 5, 2022 by Thorfun
deadleg

[PeterW]

2 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

this is what I'm planning but I was speaking to a retired plumber and he said that 10mm pipe will cause basin taps to just trickle and he thought it'd be a massive mistake

And that’s why he’s retired… 10mm will easily do 8l/min at 2.5 bar which is more than the maximum allowable under then WRAS / water regulations flow rates.

 

All cold supplies balanced from the control group,  WC loop fed from the feed before the control group so a flush doesn’t affect balance. Basins and other taps in 10mm, shower or bath in 15/22 depending on flow requirements.

 

 

[Pocster]

2 minutes ago, PeterW said:

And that’s why he’s retired… 10mm will easily do 8l/min at 2.5 bar which is more than the maximum allowable under then WRAS / water regulations flow rates.

 

All cold supplies balanced from the control group,  WC loop fed from the feed before the control group so a flush doesn’t affect balance. Basins and other taps in 10mm, shower or bath in 15/22 depending on flow requirements.

 

 

I’m fairly confident I asked all this at the start of my plumbing experience and was told to use 15mm for everything. I’ve not experienced any issues .