My self-build DIY plumbing

[Thorfun]

4 minutes ago, PeterW said:

And that’s why he’s retired… 10mm will easily do 8l/min at 2.5 bar which is more than the maximum allowable under then WRAS / water regulations flow rates.

 

All cold supplies balanced from the control group,  WC loop fed from the feed before the control group so a flush doesn’t affect balance. Basins and other taps in 10mm, shower or bath in 15/22 depending on flow requirements.

 

 

wonderful and just what I was planning after all my reading. our toilets are fed from a RWH tank via a header tank in the loft so no amount of toilet flushing should affect balance.

[Carrerahill]

People keep saying Hep2O rather than say JG or others - am I to take from this Hep2O is better? Easier? Cheaper?

 

 

[Thorfun]

ok. think I'm ready to start with some questions. this is solely dealing with internal 110mm soil pipe at the moment.

 

1. the most important question.....black or grey? 😂

2. any difference in manufacturers? e.g. Polypipe, Osma, Floplast etc

3. do I start from the bottom and work backwards? by that I mean, shall I start at where the 110mm pipe goes through the wall to the underground drainage and work 'up' the house to the bathrooms/toilets? or start at the bathrooms and then join everything together at the pipe through the wall to external?

4. should I have already bought toilet wall hung frames and pans in order to get the level correct for the 110mm branches for WCs? or is there a 'default' height above FFL that the branch should be set at? (please let me know if this question doesn't make sense as it does in my head but that's a bit scrambled at the moment)

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, Carrerahill said:

People keep saying Hep2O rather than say JG or others - am I to take from this Hep2O is better? Easier? Cheaper?

 

 

according to @Nickfromwales it is? or rather less prone to errors from the reading I've done.

[Pocster]

9 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

People keep saying Hep2O rather than say JG or others - am I to take from this Hep2O is better? Easier? Cheaper?

 

 

I’ve seen a speedfit fitting leak a few times . You could say wasn’t installed properly. But under stress ( pipe perhaps a bit bent so pulling on the fitting ) I think they can leak . I got a ‘gift’ pack from wavin ( just a tee and 2 pipes ) . I tried my best to make it leak ; I couldn’t .

[Pocster]

16 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

ok. think I'm ready to start with some questions. this is solely dealing with internal 110mm soil pipe at the moment.

 

1. the most important question.....black or grey? 😂

2. any difference in manufacturers? e.g. Polypipe, Osma, Floplast etc

3. do I start from the bottom and work backwards? by that I mean, shall I start at where the 110mm pipe goes through the wall to the underground drainage and work 'up' the house to the bathrooms/toilets? or start at the bathrooms and then join everything together at the pipe through the wall to external?

4. should I have already bought toilet wall hung frames and pans in order to get the level correct for the 110mm branches for WCs? or is there a 'default' height above FFL that the branch should be set at? (please let me know if this question doesn't make sense as it does in my head but that's a bit scrambled at the moment)

My pennies worth ( because that’s all it’s worth )

 

2. I’m certain some brands can vary in size . So be careful - I try to get the same brand of fitting and pipe to avoid issues .

3. 😁 I start at both ends . I like to get the basic soil pipe in place so I have some idea where everything will ultimately end up .

4. Things like this always cause me issues . If I measure and ‘allow’ a bit for pipe adjustments etc. I usually end up changing it anyway . So now I buy pan / frame / basin etc. all well in advance . Then I’ve got the real thing and tbh I can make my pipework etc. suit what I need . It’s an amateur way of doing it - but works for me .

Edited October 5, 2022 by pocster

[Pocster]

@Thorfun if you haven’t already . Get proper pipe cutters 👍

 

 

[joe90]

10mm runs in plastic gives plenty of pressure fir toilets and hand basins, I did do the others in 15mm, including hot. Another advantage of plastic is the straighter runs which give better flow and can be fed in, in one length gently going around obstacles without more joins and bends.  I was called to a customer to instal a pump to a shower to increase flow as it was poor, instead I replaced copper pipe with loads of 90’ bends with a sweeping length of plastic with one 90’ bend and the difference was great and no pump needed.

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

2. I’m certain some brands can vary in size . So be careful - I try to get the same brand of fitting and pipe to avoid issues .

yep. was going to do just that, I just don't know which brand to start with!

 

1 hour ago, pocster said:

3. 😁 I start at both ends . I like to get the basic soil pipe in place so I have some idea where everything will ultimately end up .

yeah, this is what I was planning to do. get all the 110mm soil pipe in place and then work from there. think I'll do exactly what you've done. will start in the bathroom that will connect to the external pipe first and then connect that up and then go to the next bathroom and so on.

 

1 hour ago, pocster said:

4. Things like this always cause me issues . If I measure and ‘allow’ a bit for pipe adjustments etc. I usually end up changing it anyway . So now I buy pan / frame / basin etc. all well in advance . Then I’ve got the real thing and tbh I can make my pipework etc. suit what I need . It’s an amateur way of doing it - but works for me .

I'd better get shopping then!

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

@Thorfun if you haven’t already . Get proper pipe cutters 👍

 

 

got a pair that I used for the UFH from Wunda. but I might look to spend quite a few quid on a proper quality pair from a named brand!

[Thorfun]

and still on the question of internal soil pipe....

 

push fit or solvent weld?

 

I'm tempted to go push fit for ease of installation and for the inevitable mistakes being more easily rectified! will do solvent weld for the basin/shower/bath waste though.

[Pocster]

13 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

and still on the question of internal soil pipe....

 

push fit or solvent weld?

 

I'm tempted to go push fit for ease of installation and for the inevitable mistakes being more easily rectified! will do solvent weld for the basin/shower/bath waste though.

Well ! F off @Big Jimbo before I answer . Solvent weld on all major pipework in my opinion . If you have a tricky fitting use black tiger ( thanks @joe90 or similar ) because it’s takes hours to set not seconds like the usual stuff . I didn’t want a push fit in a location I can never reach ….

[joe90]

1 minute ago, pocster said:

I didn’t want a push fit in a location I can never reach ….

I hate/won’t use  push fit.

[Thorfun]

Just now, joe90 said:

I hate/won’t use  push fit.

but what happens (even with the black tiger) when you go back a day/week/month later and realise you've messed up and need to move a branch. you have to cut out and piece it all back together again, no? at least with push fit you can remove, cut and replace

[ProDave]

I also prefer copper.  I took as dislike to push fit when we bought our first static caravan for our first self build and upon connecting the water one by one over the next few days all the push fit fittings blew apart.  Yes I know that would have been very old pipe and an inferior cheap push fit system, but it put me off.

 

Then a year or 2 back when i helped a neighbour with leaks, a mouse had got in and was in the inter floor space and by the time the mouse was caught and dispatched, he had gnawed through the plastic water pipe in 3 places.    Make your house properly air tight and mice won't get in and that won't be a concern.

[Pocster]

15 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

but what happens (even with the black tiger) when you go back a day/week/month later and realise you've messed up and need to move a branch. you have to cut out and piece it all back together again, no? at least with push fit you can remove, cut and replace

Yes 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Pocster]

12 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I also prefer copper.  I took as dislike to push fit when we bought our first static caravan for our first self build and upon connecting the water one by one over the next few days all the push fit fittings blew apart.  Yes I know that would have been very old pipe and an inferior cheap push fit system, but it put me off.

 

Then a year or 2 back when i helped a neighbour with leaks, a mouse had got in and was in the inter floor space and by the time the mouse was caught and dispatched, he had gnawed through the plastic water pipe in 3 places.    Make your house properly air tight and mice won't get in and that won't be a concern.

Incredible as it will sound my late father was a plumber ( yes I learned zero from him ) . Old skool ; so copper everywhere and perfectly neat . One day he put a copper tee in a corner to go under a kitchen worktop . I saw this and said Hep2o would bend round that corner no fitting needed . He hated push fit . 6 months later his soldered joint leaked . Had to remove granite worktop and units to get to it . You can imagine what I said 😂

Edited October 5, 2022 by pocster

[ProDave]

15 minutes ago, pocster said:

Incredible as it will sound my late father was a plumber ( yes I learned zero from him ) . Old skool ; so copper everywhere and perfectly neat . One day he put a copper tee in a corner to go under a kitchen worktop . I saw this and said Hep2o would bend round that corner no fitting needed . He hated push fit . 6 months later his soldered joint leaked . Had to remove granite worktop and units to get to it . You can imagine what I said 😂

copper will bend as well you know.  I don't like using fittings where not needed.  My record in our first house was 9 bends in one length of pipe to go round an alcove.  It was a little challenging getting the bent pipe out of the bender and then wiggling it into place.  Shame I did not photograph it at the time.

[HughF]

3 hours ago, Thorfun said:

good on you but too much faff for me. I'd much rather just pop to Screwfix and pick up some more Hep2o fixings!

I keep a pretty big stock of the most common fittings in press copper (m profile) and press mlcp…. I rarely encounter a situation where I don’t have the fitting I need in the box.

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, ProDave said:

copper will bend as well you know.  I don't like using fittings where not needed.  My record in our first house was 9 bends in one length of pipe to go round an alcove.  It was a little challenging getting the bent pipe out of the bender and then wiggling it into place.  Shame I did not photograph it at the time.

I know . He probably did a fitting as it was easier . Tbh he’s done thousand of soldered joints - never seen one leak until then ; Sod’s law .

[ToughButterCup]

15 hours ago, Radian said:

There's something a bit odd about plumbing that always makes me put off doing any for as long as possible - until I finally cave in and dig out the plumbing toolbox. Once started, I don't want to stop....

 

Exactly right.

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

and still on the question of internal soil pipe....

 

push fit or solvent weld?

push fit and buy a proper tin of silicone grease…

 

The Aquaflow stuff drom Toolstation is pretty decent if you want to buy as you go, otherwise I use Drainage Online and get lots in one go. 
 

if you can persuade your local S’fix to give you a trade account it’s currently 10% off bulk Hep2O too.

 

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

got a pair that I used for the UFH from Wunda. but I might look to spend quite a few quid on a proper quality pair from a named brand!

Buy a pair of Rothenberger shears 

[PeterW]

33 minutes ago, HughF said:

I keep a pretty big stock of the most common fittings in press copper (m profile) and press mlcp…. I rarely encounter a situation where I don’t have the fitting I need in the box.

You may do, but a lot of plumbers don’t and if you need someone else to add to the system then MLCP 16mm press fit is a real rare beast. Not even sure the

rothenberger press for 15mm will fit either as it is tight on the fittings. 

[PeterW]

4 hours ago, Gone West said:

I designed a manifold system and used plastic pipe, never done it before but it worked out ok.

 

 

 

 

I still love this pic as I think it is the only time in 25+ years I’ve seen the collets used correctly and the correct colour per pipe … It is the only time I’ve seen JG used and installed as per MIs..

[Gone West]

5 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I still love this pic as I think it is the only time in 25+ years I’ve seen the collets used correctly and the correct colour per pipe … It is the only time I’ve seen JG used and installed as per MIs..

Thanks. I used Hep2O when it first came out in the early nineties and the mark one version was crap. The mark two version was also crap so I moved onto JG and it was a lot better so I've always used it. I'm sure Hep2O has improved a lot since I last used it but I've never had any problems with JG so I keep using it. I think it's better for DIY users like me because there's no doubt if you fit the collets, then the pipe is fitted correctly.