Extension- Last Stuff.

[joe90]

Glad you appear to be getting somewhere with this, hats off to Vaillant for giving you the time. Do you have TRV,s on your radiators? (Thermostatic radiator valves), as this would be the way to limit temps within each room!.

[newhome]

18 hours ago, Onoff said:

Discovered a word today that I'd not heard before; "twunt". No bearing on this thread, just putting it out there. 

Really? I think that’s one of @PeterW’S favourite words. 

[Onoff]

34 minutes ago, newhome said:

Really? I think that’s one of @PeterW’S favourite words. 

 

Only since he's known me!

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

Helpful chap in service dept

 

Think I've had dealings with him, was it Drew Shortstraw?

Edited January 27, 2021 by Onoff

[zoothorn]

47 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Glad you appear to be getting somewhere with this, hats off to Vaillant for giving you the time. Do you have TRV,s on your radiators? (Thermostatic radiator valves), as this would be the way to limit temps within each room!.

 

No it's something to consider once Ive got the basics running ok I think. I go one step fwd, then a side step with vaillant today (I'm in middle of 5x emails following the call) as things are not right. Im totally exhausted now.

 

I managed to up the heat curve, & get back to thermostat set-up (1 hr ago now) good. But:

 

Told to set minimum and max heat temp settings: but no option to do this. AND now: the damn heating is on continuosly, with thermostat room 24* (going up up 23* a hour ago) with desired room temp 18.5*C. It shouldn't be on. So my confidence in it coming on overnight resumes, again. More emails. 2 hrs every other fkn day on it. I honestly just cannot cope with tit anymore but no choice, I have to plough on.

[joe90]

I am not an expert on ASHP,s and radiators but with a normal boiler the TRV is the way to limit the room temp, surely it’s the same with an ASHP?

[zoothorn]

11 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Think I've had dealings with him, was it Drew Shortstraw?

 

No, Tom Thorley Vaillant service dept, who has been absolutely fantastic (despite my anger at the wretched system, occasionally vented his way too, understandably if not ideal). He completely understands my pov of: their own lack of info to installers of where to site the indoor unit being the core reason for -all- this mess. All of it. You could not get a more professional, patient, pleasant chap on the phone & emailed info (another just pinged in). My saving grace or Id have gone insane by now. or alot more than I am.

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I am not an expert on ASHP,s and radiators but with a normal boiler the TRV is the way to limit the room temp, surely it’s the same with an ASHP?

 

Im sure exactly so. But I find they have limitations: you need to spend a chunk to get decent enough one that won't 'stick' in either binary positions 0 or 1, off/ on. That was my view 10 yrs ago, the only time I lived in a place with CH. So Im not rushing to get some just yet.

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

Haha.

 

Right, update on my huge efforts with vaillant which as i said ive been doing whilst thread.

 

Helpful chap in service dept, I just called about flow temp. He advised to try an alternate system set up, just as a test to see if it would UP the flow temp. Basically doing away with outside sensor & telling it to run. Then we put in higher flow temp figs, and rads went far hotter... but seemed to be on permenantly: ie the usual thermostat way i manually set temp & times.. relegated.

 

So, useful exercise in as much as all the rads belted out heat. So i know that it is capable of doing so, finally. Not so usefully thermostat room climbed to 23*, unable to control it (apart from setting a flow temp manually) so workshop way too hot, top room tho achieved 20* for 1st time. Bu, it is suddenly very mild outside of course, so far easier to reach 20* plus.

 

So Ive had to put it back to orig thermostat way. Ok i was told how to set my heat curve to 1.5 (a fig relating to 45* flow temp which seems what i want).. but unable to change the 'max flow temp' from 33*, which for whatever reason its set to. Weird. Tantalisingly close to achieving what i need that is up the flow temp from mid 30*'s.

 

Also we tweaked a 'noise reduction' mode, from 24:00 - 24:00 (meaning some form of dampening, possibly he said 1 st thing AM its tamping down rads performance).. so we changed this to just overnight up until 6.30 am, then let it go as it were. Let's see.

 

Hugely complicated. Another 1 hr call, very diligent & personable chap in service dept. But exhausting.

This is progress but not a solution.

 

So they got you to change some settings which got the radiators properly hot but then the room thermostat didn't work.

 

Why was that.  The operation of the room thermostat should be independant of water temperature settings and heat curves.

 

And why could the various engineers that have visited so many times before not have changed those same settings and got it all working properly?

 

At least you have some more amunition to go back to the installers again and get them to finally sort it out properly.

[MJNewton]

25 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I am not an expert on ASHP,s and radiators but with a normal boiler the TRV is the way to limit the room temp, surely it’s the same with an ASHP?

 

...although not if the TRV is in a room with a thermostat. In that case the TRV should be left open otherwise they'll 'fight' (eg TRV closes down leaving the stat still calling for heat if set higher than what the TRV wants). 

[zoothorn]

You wouldn't believe this. Now thermostat seems broken. Heating stuck on all damn day (upped flow temp, I think some success there) rooms cooking now to uncomfortable 24.5*, desired set to my usual 18*C day temp, mild so should rarely been on. All day all rads barely a break.

 

New fault then/ another series of calls, emails. FFS. How can I put up with this?

 

I think now they should just be offering to replace the system tbh. Its in warranty, this will be mfr issue 6.. nearing 8 months of it.

[ProDave]

1 minute ago, zoothorn said:

You wouldn't believe this. Now thermostat seems broken. Heating stuck on all damn day (upped flow temp, I think some success there) rooms cooking now to uncomfortable 24.5*, desired set to my usual 18*C day temp, mild so should rarely been on. All day all rads barely a break.

 

New fault then/ another series of calls, emails. FFS. How can I put up with this?

 

I think now they should just be offering to replace the system tbh. Its in warranty, this will be mfr issue 6.. nearing 8 months of it.

You are nearly there, look on the bright side.

 

Just the thermostat to fix now you have finally got the radiators properly hot.

 

It sounds to me like it has probably never worked, until the rooms got properly heated they never got hot enough to bother the room thermostat.

 

So that's an easy tangible fault to put to the installers "the room thermostat does not work, come and fix it"

[zoothorn]

3 hours ago, ProDave said:

 

 

At least you have some more amunition to go back to the installers again and get them to finally sort it out properly.

 

Hi ProDave- as Ive said until the cows come home, the issues are not installer issues they've all been hardware & software issues: so Vaillant's to fix (if thermostat's bust, a vaillant part/ under warranty/ why would it be anyone other than vaillant to fit the replacement?? why would this be in any way, the fault of the installers??).

 

Ive also said the installers are uncontactable. They install adequately yes (bar one pipe not connected right, 1 rad drip) but do not offer adequate/ normal aftercare. Why? because they're on a run of these installs, do minimal aftercare, a few weeks of calls.. then no answer.

 

And said too: 3 Vaillant engineers I asked confirmed it's installed ok (bar a pipe connected wrong).. so why would I question them? You think they wouldn't have answered "poor install x,y,z" if they'd seen -any- evidence, when I asked them, "is the install ok in your opinion?"

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by zoothorn

[PeterW]

6 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

the issues are not installer issues they've all been hardware & software issues

What about the litre of water a day out of the system when the hot water kicks in..??!! That’s nothing to do with the heat pump, that’s poor cylinder installation. 

[joe90]

Checking that radiators get hot and the thermostat works is part of the commissioning after being installed!!!!

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, PeterW said:

What about the litre of water a day out of the system when the hot water kicks in..??!! That’s nothing to do with the heat pump, that’s poor cylinder installation. 

 

Yes I totally agree. it's why I include the single -1 pipe connected wrong- installer error in my list of woes.

 

But it's a trifling thing (& I dont blame the spotty trainee, a small mistake we all make & it only irritated me a bit.. but, exacerbated & made me angry only by the months of calls to get them to fix it, in 1 hr flat) compared to the many hardware & software issues like replacement pumps, new pcb boards sent from france 3 chaps & a full 1/2 day to fix isn't it!

 

 

[zoothorn]

I do appreciate the usual way is, if a bit breaks.. the normal protocol is to -hand any prob- to installers. I get that. They even told me this themselves.

 

And I also understand yours & collective pov, is that because my rads were underperforming (but today blitzing me- weird) then as I showed you too-small rads in two rooms, the understandable assertion is.. arrows pointing to installers. I get that too.

 

And my huge rad not heating my new room? bad settings set up likely.. more arrows pointing to installers. Leak > installers.

 

I do appreciate explaining all this, but if I'm hamstrung unable to contact them, & aware of a 5 yr mfr warranty.. it seems reasonable to just not waste time on useless 23yr old installer "after-service" & just go the pro route regardless of it not being the 'conventional way' (&/ or even if it might go against the tide of replies).

 

Single chaps we're known to be obdurate sods going our own way; now this might seem ungrateful... but I assure you, it is not. And here its just 2 ways to skin a cat: & in my book, one cat's dead!

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, joe90 said:

Checking that radiators get hot and the thermostat works is part of the commissioning after being installed!!!!

 

Told ashp rads don't get as hot as normal CH, I checked/ they got fairly hot (in august not ideal to tell).. & thermostat's worked for 7 months!

[Adsibob]

On 22/09/2020 at 11:43, joe90 said:

I would want steps equal (and building regs also say this, if they apply). Measure the total height difference and divide by 3 (IMO) and build Up the steps with timber , step depth also equal so new bottom step = middle step depth. Skirting as per @Carrerahill picture above.

Absolutely agree with @joe90 on this one. Even if regs don’t apply, this is an example where regs are really quite sensible. If you don’t have three equal steps, it will be a trip hazard for any guests that aren’t familiar with your unusual steps. You don’t want to have to remind everyone who visits every time they go up and down those steps that there is unequal one. Unless this is into a space that your guests would never go, eg a utility or private dungeon. 

[zoothorn]

@Adsibob good well i did decide on three equal steps as you can see here.. and my door hung at last. Mm precision needed to do the hinges on frame 1 st.. tricky.  Pesky plant ons to do, latch to chisel out on architrave/ far the easy bit.
 

Its perfectly skimming carpet, perfect 3 mm gap around.. but ground floor doors swell and contract alarmingly, so if i get any of this happening im stuffed. But mm spot on as is, prolly a smidge too much tbh.

 

 

[Adsibob]

3 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

@Adsibob good well i did decide on three equal steps as you can see here.. and my door hung at last. Mm precision needed to do the hinges on frame 1 st.. tricky.  Pesky plant ons to do, latch to chisel out on architrave/ far the easy bit.
 

Its perfectly skimming carpet, perfect 3 mm gap around.. but ground floor doors swell and contract alarmingly, so if i get any of this happening im stuffed. But mm spot on as is, prolly a smidge too much tbh.

 

 

@zoothorn that looks fantastic, well done.

If your door swells in the summer, just take it off and take some off with a wood plane (incrementally... you don't want to take too much off).

[Onoff]

???

[Onoff]

All along I could have sworn the hinges were going the side the lock is! ?

[Onoff]

I'm NOT saying do so at all but a little embellishment you can make with these doors is to run a router around the edges of the ledges and braces. Rounds the edge over and saves you catching your arm, hip etc as you brush by.

[zoothorn]

CH. some progress. All rads bled/ fine. Done a 'rough balance' turning down few rads, to help push heat on to my top bedroom.
 

Another call.. & deep in installer section the thermostat wasn't engaged/ so reset, seems ok! (Relief: the last visit young guy up from swansea said "ive just had covid, nothing to worry about" half into visit. ! Chaps from all over UK for these visits was concerning me prior to this.. so relieved visit no.10 avoided).

 

So my approx balance, plus tweaks of: undoing a default "noise reduction" mode (letting it run free as it were), & upping heat curve to 1.5 (was 1.2 before, and 0.8 on install).. whether all responsible I don't know, but new top room temp - seems- better. It is very mild tho.

 

So proof will be coming cold snap. Then if needed, I can do a more specific balance. But still not understanding 'lockshield'. Im not clear if i have one or two on each rad, or none at all. What i have afaict, is simply one of these, on each side of all rads: ( screwfix 33920 ).

 

thx zoot.