Nickfromwales

I should say I am not a fan of FCU (wall mounted 'radiators') in a modern domestic setting, far too utilitarian afaic. My favoured option, looking into this quite intensively atm for a new clients proposal, is to have the FCU remote and ducted to the open areas such as landings, hallways, and associated thoroughfares, so the system does the job with as little 'intrusion' into the interior architecture as is possible. My ethos is that the M&E proposal should provide a non-intrusive solution where the dwelling can maintain a pre-selected ambient temp vs switch on to deal with the issue; if this ethos is adopted then the requirement for injecting large amounts of heat energy at adverse times of the day should be mitigated against, ergo the system is on 'long and low' and is working away in the background with as little audibility or inconvenience as is practicable. Heat will move to cold, so by purging the living spaces, landings and thoroughfares, the living spaces and 1st floor bedrooms should naturally stay at much more acceptable ambient temps, and be 'cool' after the sun goes down and well in advance of putting ones head down of an evening. This also suggests that the brunt of this transfer of nuisance heat (energy) can be offset by the thing causing the issue (solar PV > sun).

You're quite close, so I don't need to be kind, also I have been dabbling/learning about cooling since 2019, and am still learning as the market, its products (and R&D), and suitability becomes better known. FCU's are a dead safe bet afaic, and yes the issue would be with diminishing 'energy' arriving at each unit (if installing multiples) so I'd do the insulated runs and have them all as radial runs back to a manifold; this gives more flexibility for downstream fine-tuning etc imho. I now see what you mean by 2 circuits, 2 types of emitters supplied either direct from HP low temp output in cooling mode or via an Esbe mixing valve for slightly warmer water to get to the UFH. This is exactly what I have done for 2 previous clients projects, so am 'feeling ya!'. IIRC we sent 11-12oC to the AHU and 15-16oC to the UFH in these instances, one a PH+ ICF build and the other an MBC PH TF, both with rafts founds.

@Galvin1972 is trying way too hard here, and Mr-a-certain-Mcloud is not quite as much of an expert in anything as he is a TV waffler, let's be honest eh? Also prob thrives on getting stuff for feck all so not so worried if the plan fails; and the companies enjoy the NDA! IR panel heating is utter shart and expensive as feck to run, and would be the absolute last thing I'd ever consider for space/central heating. Mention the <90oC surface temp if the thing has to be turned up to output it's max stated wattage, and then people with pets, kids or infirm just say WTF?? Not just shart and expensive to run, but dangerous too. It's akin to when some brainwashed people knock my door to convince me that a man with a beard rides a cloud in the sky and watches over his flock.....for flocks sake..... That is how this sales pitch comes across, embarrassingly desperate for approval, so time to relegate it to the fiction section and move on to something worthwhile.

It'll drop to 20%, not by 20%, that's a major drop for a fan coil. Circuits? Please give more info, eg pipe size etc, and if you're referring to doing 2 runs to 2 FCU's vs 1 & 1?

I guess I'd play about with lowering the flow temp incrementally, to gauge the effect, as it's prob not good to go too far and have the system cycling because the cooling effect outperforms it's task? Isn't the HP working a lot harder for longer to do major temp drops too?

Ffs. 🤦‍♂️

Whatever the choice, as there’s dynamic loads from this being a terrace, I’d put 2 layers of decking board under the covering of choice, joints staggered, for bent & braces. Screwed and glued together and NOT nailed. I’d also buy some pedestals with the biggest possible bases, to spread to point load as much as possible.

@Pocster is possibly putting together, history’s “most shite” CV

You can never get away from that, and is where the client must be responsible for doing their own diligence, I’m afraid. Lazy clients will fall foul, simples. If you don’t know what to ask or what to look at / for, you should be using a consultant from day dot. “Fail to prepare, prepare to fail”, I heard that somewhere

I disagree. I’ve met sooooo many who hide behind a qualification they just scraped by to attain. I’ve been next to PH ‘savvy’ and qualified, and beaten them. Load of tosh and supersonic websites. The majority of bad work I’ve seen over the last 20+ years has been by companies or professionals whom the clients then state that they simply cannot believe have let them down, often badly, often with significant cost repercussions. I have a VERY firm grip on myself, thanks the same. I never asked a friend to give a recommendation, never said that I did, only independent, unique clientele who speak the truth, warts and all, which is the best possible reference you’ll ever get or give. End of. Websites with references can be, and sometimes are, engineered or fictional. Trusted trades websites offer a service to remove negative reviews for a fee ffs. Wakey wakey time folks! Nobody sends a professional to seek a reference, where do you see that happening out of curiosity? Feedback from a previous client(s) has won me lots of work, even when they say certain things could have been a bit better but overall the result was positive and the outcome good or great. I’ll take that level of transparency every day of the week with any company or professional. Results are results, and they’ll always speak for themselves. Most BCO’s who visit my jobs spend more time asking about the level of workmanship etc than looking around checking the job over. They see someone who knows what they’re doing within minutes of being on site. They do. And get told a load of Enid. Where had anyone suggested that they do, or that they should do this?!? A mate of mine dipped out of school early and became a bit of a toe rag. Zero quals. Now if I put him and his oak work up against some of the best, he’ll outshine them. Qualifications don’t impress me one bit, being able to do the research, solve problems, work with the client to ascertain their needs/wants/wishes, find solutions to get that end result, and deliver this with pride and passion, wins the day. I only reach out to bonafide designers when a system needs to be compliant and the paper trail needs to be complete, eg anything like electrics, ventilation, fire, structural, and so on. We share very different views on this, but that’s what makes the world go round I guess.

Loads of shitheads hide behind so-called qualifications. Pointless looking at those, you just need to look at previous work, or to get to speak directly with previous customers. I’ve had a recent potential client reach out to others I’m working for, so they can vouch for me, and there’s nowhere to hide then as these chats are undertaken well away from me. Proof is always in the pudding, just unfortunate that this one’s a tuna melt. The intolerable part here is this chaos ignorance, blame-shifting, and incompetence, plus most builders leave their +1 behind with a labourer, offer minimal information / GAF, and leave them to their own devices. Results speak for themselves.

Hence it only being 100mm Dab over the PP and half over the tape etc reduces that down to only missing ~50mm of ‘mechanical’ adhesion. PB of wall gets scrim taped to PB coming down the ceiling = winner winner 🐓 dinner.

Just remember that with AB they want the entire 1st fix done for M&E, all known penetrations through slab / superstructure done, and then they do their thing. For current masonry project, I’ve asked the client to instruct the builder to do a 200mm ribbon of parge at the top of each external, internally, and then to PP that. The AVCL that comes down the posis on the roof will be cut long, to have about 100mm of skirt left hanging down there, then a 75mm AT tape will fix the AVCL to the PP. That’s over breeze block. AB will go from there, penetrating the porous elements of the masonry and finding the bits the builder / client missed.

Quite easy to demonstrate that assets have been damaged beyond economical repair here. Completely ignored SE remit etc and gone rogue with their own, unsuccessful, and non BC compliant, set of rules….

Yes. Some sectional drawings would help, but the issue is about getting UFH pipes to traverse this structure and I’d defo say on top. H-H shows more concrete cover atop, but the cover may be very minimal over the top of the pipes, but these beams can be circumnavigated by the UFH loops I’m sure. Heat will jump these gaps in a 250mm slab?

I’m assuming 300mm of EPS under a flat 250mm constructional slab? Eg no divots in it so no need to add an extra 100mm of EPS underslung at each intermediate location.

EPS basket then?

They should as it’s supply and fit. Just ping them an email, they were super helpful when I rang them for technical info and method statements etc.

Just recommended PassivePurple to another client for a masonry build we’re getting airtight to PH level or better. PP is a liquid airtight membrane (for anyone wondering) which can be bought as a sprayable liquid, or as a thicker product that you apply by hand with a brush. Get some disposable gloves, decorators coveralls, and some cheap as chips brushes. Easier to throw these away then clean and reuse as the PP starts to go off on the brush and the brushes get mangled on masonry / woodcrete ICF anyways. Theres a few products in the range which can be used, so when we were challenged getting a VERY complex ICF superstructure airtight to PH+ levels, this stuff came in super-handy. If anyone needs info on this, Adam White from Intelligent Membranes is a top chap and extremely helpful tbf. He came out to meet me on site without hesitation to recommend the correct products and to demonstrate how I best applied them to get the great results we attained there. https://www.intelligentmembranes.com For context, an ICF company I worked alongside previously applied this against the recommendation of myself, and used a boatload of PP, and the AT score was just over 3ACH after £thousands got spent. Poor workmanship will always yield poor results. So, you MUST sequence getting AT measures into your construction phase at the design / pre-commencement stage or no amount of Barney-juice will save the day. Sadly for that client it was 💷🔥, but for the one where I drove the AT works it was a game changer. Client thought above 1 ACH, I said lower. First test was 0.88, and I said it can be better, so we went and tweaked doors and windows, and found some nooks and crannies that needed more foam, and then 0.66 ACH which even the clients couldn’t believe. Now, if we’d have known about AeroBarrier back then, the combination of the two products / systems would have got this to around 0.3-0.4 I reckon. Client was happy with 0.66 obvs, but I had got 0.27 previously so like to aim for <0.3 ACH wherever possible. This allows for any degradation over time of AT measures (imo), so more belts and more braces the better.

They spend the majority of the visit masking up. Some more time doing the obligatory checks for what Joe Bloggs has missed, including taping up of ducts etc etc, and then they do the application / treatment. They specifically said to me that you only need to foam around doors and windows, no tape needed there either, just that you did a good job of it and that it was cut back flush / recessed slightly ahead of their arrival. You don’t want them to come and go, and then you remove something that’s been sealed by their wizardry.

If there's no physical decoupling from outside to inside, then no. It's rudimentary not excessive. Are you saying you are peeling back the interior to the brick walls, still standing, and are building backwards > inwards? Can you post a drawing of room/walls/layout/etc plz?

Ah, ok, I didn't appreciate you we're this far in, sorry. Your posts probably state this, but I've likely missed it or my brains used the spare disk space for things more fundamental lol. Most decent ones have the pre-heater, it's not unique to Zhd'r. Ping me a PM and I'll help you push this along. I'm owed a few favours. If you go AB and ditch all the other things you mention, which I assume you do have a budget for as you don't state otherwise, then you will save money overall, and time, and hair loss.......

Your SE has made this difficult to integrate UFH pipe anywhere other than atop the steel. Why make life harder, and just do this? You can find the UFH pipes after the pour with a FLIR camera, if you REALLY need to make such penetrations into the slab afterwards, eg where the pipe doesn't already avoid such things like walls and sole plates and what-not which will be nowhere near by design. PS, are you building an NCP or using a monster ICF system?? This slab with a 250mm general core already reinforced should be man enough to take most loads (load bearing walls anyways!?!). Jeez!

Use wall plates and hang off those? No need to punch into the blockwork a load of times and create work afaic. I believe the Tony's Trays are the weapon of choice, if you do choose to turn the house into a colander. If not then you just tack a ribbon of AT membrane to the wall and then fix over it, but see my last for why none of this is necessary if you use one's noggin. So under 1ACH. Not a bad target, but better is doable, and the rewards are there for the taking if you strive for better. Why not pump the gap full of bonded EPS beads afterwards and fully insulate? Buy a perfectly comparable Brink and save 4 figures. Then.... ....use the money not wasted on the Bugatti of MVHR to get the best AT solution you can. If £2k for AT isn't in your budget, then neither in a Zehnder MVHR . I know where my priorities would be here, plus if you get the unit bought ASAP, then Air-Haus.co.uk have a massive discount on these atm. I've nudged a few clients to buy the systems/units now to save money. All negated by Aerobarrier............ Which means if you take some simple advice, you'll come out with a better result, executed faster, with less trades involved, and it'll cost you less. Take this from someone who's doing this for a living.