An Orkney Build (in ICF)

Our house is being done under the 2013 building regs as that is what was in force when our building warrant was submitted, so I escape the need for a CO2 monitor which seems to be new in the 2015 regs.   I agree it might be an interesting thing to have, but my interest does not stretch to £200 worth of interest.

 

I completed wiring a new build last year and that didn't need it, but the new build I am currently wiring does have to have this CO2 monitor installed.

Looks good, interested in your led lights. Their thin profile is very appealing...

 

We also need to install into a sloping ceiling (33 degree pitch) and looking to use the lights over our kitchen area / especially the work tops. How good are they at projecting light downwards when installed on a angle?

 

 

I've got something similar installed and they have a 170 degree angle and no shadows which make them perfect for sloping ceilings. 

5 hours ago, ProDave said:

Our house is being done under the 2013 building regs as that is what was in force when our building warrant was submitted, so I escape the need for a CO2 monitor which seems to be new in the 2015 regs.   I agree it might be an interesting thing to have, but my interest does not stretch to £200 worth of interest.

 

I completed wiring a new build last year and that didn't need it, but the new build I am currently wiring does have to have this CO2 monitor installed.

 

Given we have MVHR, I don't see the CO2 detector as anything other than a waste of money. My proposed alternative was simply a way of getting some useful benefit from it. One of those things I had to fit to get my completion certificate...

 

4 hours ago, Jimbouk said:

Looks good, interested in your led lights. Their thin profile is very appealing...

 

We also need to install into a sloping ceiling (33 degree pitch) and looking to use the lights over our kitchen area / especially the work tops. How good are they at projecting light downwards when installed on a angle?

 

 

 

Can't say I've noticed any issues in terms of shadows / not illuminating part of the area beneath the coomb ceiling.

 

We fitted the lights in our kitchen (12) and its like Blackpool Illuminations when they are on!

 

 

I too am a convert. Those flat panel Led's have an amazing dispersion and seem to light the room from everywhere. I put 5 of the 9w ones in the apex of my boys attic room and jeeee-sus they're like having your X-ray taken . They really do make you wonder why you'd ever fit a regular spot again, but I don't know how you go about using them below a habitable space for fire regs etc. Anyone?

Jason, I'm loving the way your kitchen run is framed, I'll be showing that to my future customers, looks very neat and does away with the shitty dust magnet gap always left between the unit tops and the ceiling. Who's idea was it? And more importantly, who did the design logistics getting all that in snug and neat? ?

Nice lights. Might just have to copy you on this one.

As an aside, do you happen to know what voltage the driver delivers? I could do to revamp the lighting on my boat and if these are 12v units they would be quite snazzy.

7 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

I too am a convert. Those flat panel Led's have an amazing dispersion and seem to light the room from everywhere. I put 5 of the 9w ones in the apex of my boys attic room and jeeee-sus they're like having your X-ray taken . They really do make you wonder why you'd ever fit a regular spot again, but I don't know how you go about using them below a habitable space for fire regs etc. Anyone?

Jason, I'm loving the way your kitchen run is framed, I'll be showing that to my future customers, looks very neat and does away with the shitty dust magnet gap always left between the unit tops and the ceiling. Who's idea was it? And more importantly, who did the design logistics getting all that in snug and neat? ?

 

Ive been thinking the same about those led lights, I can't see how you can use them in any ground floor rooms as they have no fire rating? 

53 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

 

Ive been thinking the same about those led lights, I can't see how you can use them in any ground floor rooms as they have no fire rating? 

 

Aico FireCap would fit over it with room to spare. I would fit the transformer to the back of the light and it will be a neat package. 

 

If they are the same as the ones I have then they are a milled aluminum casing anyway that would effectively work as a solid barrier to flame. 

 

Begs the the question though about MVHR as most of the terminals and ceiling manifolds are plastic these days so definitely not fire resistant.   

11 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Begs the the question though about MVHR as most of the terminals and ceiling manifolds are plastic these days so definitely not fire resistant. 

Yes, another case of the left hand and the right being disconnected . 

1 hour ago, Barney12 said:

 

Ive been thinking the same about those led lights, I can't see how you can use them in any ground floor rooms as they have no fire rating? 

I'm mostly retrofit ( refurbishment work ) so a pita. I'd have thought that making fire boxes out of FR plasterboard whilst at the first fix stage would suffice where space is limited, but fire hoods, as above, would be another option just annoying that these units don't appear to have been scrutinised / approved by our regulatory overlords. . 

28 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Yes, another case of the left hand and the right being disconnected . 

I'm mostly retrofit ( refurbishment work ) so a pita. I'd have thought that making fire boxes out of FR plasterboard whilst at the first fix stage would suffice where space is limited, but fire hoods, as above, would be another option just annoying that these units don't appear to have been scrutinised / approved by our regulatory overlords. . 

 

Yes, and by the time you've added the cost of the firehoods you're back to similar pricing of fire rated units  

Aren't these I Lumos fittings the same make as @jamiehamy's switches  that his sparks wouldn't fit/warrant over concerns about CE marking etc covered in another thread?

15 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

 

Yes, and by the time you've added the cost of the firehoods you're back to similar pricing of fire rated units  

I'd favour looks over price for the sake of £10-15 more per fitting . Fabric first, but the finished look is everything. 

 

A few comments so I'll answer the LED ones first.

 

@Nickfromwales @PeterW @Barney12 @Onoff

 

I initially bought a couple of samples to test for myself  - i.e. run for 8 hours to see if there was any issue with overheating or radio interference.  Satisfied, I then discussed with the electrician, who tested them and was happy to install them.  Can't comment on the results others have had when testing other electrical equipment, but I'm satisfied on the basis of my own and the electricians input.

 

The lights have milled aluminium casings and inset diffuser lens, which provides an initial solid barrier to flame, although I've not fire tested a fitting yet to see how long it would last.  Our installation is perhaps a little different as although the majority of lights are fitted to a ceiling where the 'room' above (mezzanine study) is open to the main living area, just as the kitchen is.  The remaining lights (over the stairs / upstairs) have no rooms above and are simply fitted in the service void.  

 

Our main reason for fitting them in the kitchen was asthetics.

 

@Crofter Looking at the driver, DC output 15 - 28V

 

10 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Jason, I'm loving the way your kitchen run is framed, I'll be showing that to my future customers, looks very neat and does away with the shitty dust magnet gap always left between the unit tops and the ceiling. Who's idea was it? And more importantly, who did the design logistics getting all that in snug and neat? ?

 

I first saw the idea (recessed bank of larder units) in one of the builders houses, and simply extended the idea to frame that run of units.  I'm pretty sure we'd also seen some pictures in brochures as well. We had initially been thinking about a straight run of larder units on that wall, but decided that we wouldn't have enough worktop space if we did that and settled on the design you see. Partitions / framing were built around the units, so the kitchen units went in a lot earlier than would normally be the case.  A 5 mm fillet of timber was fixed to the outside of the units to create a shadow gap between the partitions and units.

 

 

 

 

So did you plaster after the kitchen units were installed?

Yes - taped and filled / decorated after. I did take the precaution of removing all of the doors / drawers whilst this was being done.

5 hours ago, Stones said:

 The lights have milled aluminium casings and inset diffuser lens, which provides an initial solid barrier to flame, although I've not fire tested a fitting yet to see how long it would last. 

 

Interesting point though as they are a solid aluminum fixture so would reasonably be expected to be min 30min fire proof anyway. 

 

Would be interesting to see if something like Zeroflame used on them would provide any additional protection. 

 

 

19 hours ago, Stones said:

A 5 mm fillet of timber was fixed to the outside of the units to create a shadow gap between the partitions and units.

. All good stuff. Cheers. 

We're looking at the 6w downlights mentioned as they look fantastic in your build.. Did you opt for the warm or pure white version? 

On 21/05/2017 at 08:03, Crofter said:

As an aside, do you happen to know what voltage the driver delivers? I could do to revamp the lighting on my boat and if these are 12v units they would be quite snazzy.

 

Most likely they're not a specific voltage but a specific current (perhaps 350 or 700 mA). Running LEDs from a constant voltage source is not likely to be very satisfactory, either they'll be too dim or they'll go pop, maybe as the temperature changes.

They come with a driver and the label on the driver would have the info. Unfortunately I can't find a clear enough photo on the web.

these are just the same chinesium edge-lit panels you can get everywhere from B&Q to Ebay. I've just opened a B&Q one I had sitting here which is 5W IIRC and it's 380lm with a 245mA driver.

Like wise we have a mix of very similar 3 W and 6 W LED edge-lit panels here, been fine so far.  They all seem to draw ~ 250 mA to 300 mA, from a constant current source, with the voltage at the 3 W one being around 11 V, and the voltage at the 6 W ones being around 22 V.  Some of these panels are supplied with constant current drivers that can be a bit noisy, in terms of RF interference, some come with drivers that seem fine.  We have some warm white ones that are fine in the dining area, and cool white ones in the kitchen.  The cool white ones seem marginally brighter, and give a good light for cooking.

Whats everyones plans when these fittings die? particularly if they have a proprietary cut out size.

 

Don't get me wrong, they look very sleek and an all-in-one fitting seems like a good idea... just thinking this Vs. a traditional F/R GU10 can + replaceable LED bulb... I guess you just chop it off and bin it?

11 hours ago, Ed Davies said:

Most likely they're not a specific voltage but a specific current (perhaps 350 or 700 mA). Running LEDs from a constant voltage source is not likely to be very satisfactory, either they'll be too dim or they'll go pop, maybe as the temperature changes.

 

True for the vast majority of LED downlights, although some LED light sources (LED strip, in particular) need 12V or 24V.

28 minutes ago, MrMagic said:

Whats everyones plans when these fittings die? particularly if they have a proprietary cut out size.

 

Don't get me wrong, they look very sleek and an all-in-one fitting seems like a good idea... just thinking this Vs. a traditional F/R GU10 can + replaceable LED bulb... I guess you just chop it off and bin it?

 

I've taken one of these apart to see what's in it, and it's just a bit of LED strip wrapped around the edge of a diffuser.  There's nothing else inside the light itself, so my guess is that the most likely failure mode might be the driver.  I had problems with RF interference from the drivers on the lights we bought, so I binned all the drivers and fed the lights with low voltage DC (12 V for the 3 W lights, 24 V for the 6 W lights) using the same value of current limiting resistor at each light (6R8 ohms, 1 W).  This very slightly reduces the efficiency (there's a loss of ~0.6 W in the resistor, versus a loss of ~0.5 W in the old driver, not enough of a difference to lose any sleep over), but means that I can use a single supply to run lots of lights, and also means that replacing that supply in future should be easy.

 

I also ordered lots of spares, as these lights were pretty cheap, plus I wasn't sure whether to use warm white or cool white, so I have a box with over a dozen assorted spares.  I put these lights in around 4 years ago now, and they are all still working fine.  They don't noticeably warm up in use, which bodes well for them having a long life, as heat is the enemy of LEDs, and one reason why some LEDs that have been adapted to fit things like halogen fittings seem to have a fairly high failure rate (halogens like to run hot, so halogen fittings aren't designed to keep lamps cool).

 

The connection between the light and the driver is a standard low voltage DC power plug and socket (a 5.5mm x 2.1mm one) so it's easy to swap a light over, should one fail.