Balcony Solar Is Coming!

[joth]

According to City Plumbing: 

• The updated safety standards are covered by BS7671 18th edition Amendment 4
• G98 notification will still be required, within 28 days of connection

Surely only a minority will actually bother with the G98 for plug-in.  It feels to me like requiring purchase of a CB license in the 80s: technically a legal requirement but fat chance of enforcement, so long as one doesn't egregiously flout the regulations. That'd be my guess.

 

 

[Roger440]

9 hours ago, Beelbeebub said:

There would be an interesting case for people with old style meters, they would just run backwards so any export would be effectively net metered, ie your effective payment per kwh export would be whatever you import unit cost would be! 😁 

 

[Roger440]

On 28/03/2026 at 14:57, Dillsue said:

Firstly, it can't be exempted as G98 covers a load of safety requirements. If they do away with G98 they'll have to write a new spec for plug in solar and that isn't gonna get done in a few months. G98 already covers sub 800watt generators and gives a few exemptions for those. Recognising plug in systems may be an additional exemption but still part of G98

 

Secondly, they can't dispense with notification because.....if all your neighbours installed 3.68kw solar but didn't tell the DNO then first sunny day the local voltage would rocket and push the voltage past the max limit and your inverter(when installed!) could trip. You wouldn't be happy. Imagine 50% of a block of flats installing plug in systems that the DNO didn't know about it so could bolster the local grid and/or drop the supply voltage, it would be bedlam.

 

I appreciate you are looking at this from an engineering view point, but it just isnt going to happen. Ie, notifications. Even if the law said you must.

 

Its called the real world. If you can get this from the supermarket, or online, and plug it in, people will. No one cares or understands G98 out side of electricians and enthusiastic ametuers.

 

The tech arguments are irrelavant, because the above is what will happen in real life.

[Crofter]

How does it work in Germany? Do they have to notify anybody?

[Roger440]

21 minutes ago, Crofter said:

How does it work in Germany? Do they have to notify anybody?

 

No idea. Be good to know.

 

But if they do, germans being german will always follow the rules.

 

Midly amusing story. Went to see one of our distributors in germany. He took us out to dinner in hamburg. Then to a pub.

 

Anyway, he drove a big dodge ram and styled himself as a bit of a renegade/cowboy, against the german system etc.

 

We walked back to the hotel, about 1am. No one about. Got to a cross roads and i crossed the road. He shouted to me to stop. I said "why". Because the pedestrian signal is Red he says. 

 

He simply couldnt understand or accept that i would cross the road, using my own judgement to do so when there was a light. There were NO moving cars in sight. anywhere.

 

I found it an enlightening insight to german thinking. Albeit an isolated one.

 

Needless to say, he took some ribbing from that point on.

[Beelbeebub]

The crux for me is that these systems have been working away in Europe for several years now. 

 

Unless there is some fundamental difference between our systems and European ones - maybe the fact we use ring mains or something - I can't seen there being a problem, beyond regulations and paperwork. 

[-rick-]

1 hour ago, Roger440 said:

Its called the real world. If you can get this from the supermarket, or online, and plug it in, people will. No one cares or understands G98 out side of electricians and enthusiastic ametuers.

 

Sure and agree. I tend to think that we should not have rules in place we don't expect many to follow hence why I don't think registration should be required. However, I think we've already covered how as long as these things meet regs then registration is just bureaucracy not a safety matter.

 

Preventing non-compliant devices should be dealt with by focusing on ensuring the retaillers don't sell them. 

[DamonHD]

1 hour ago, Crofter said:

How does it work in Germany? Do they have to notify anybody?

"the registration with the network operator is no longer required. Only in the so-called market master data register of the Federal Network Agency, balcony solar devices must be registered. This is done with a few mouse clicks."

 

https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/energie/energiewende-balkonkraftwerke-100.html

[Gus Potter]

I ask my self. 

 

The idea of a balcony is that you can see out. 

 

 

At times you may want privacy.. but you use say pot plants for that. 

 

You also want to do a bit of sun bathing. 

 

There will be a few eco enthusiasts that do this but most in real life will give it a swerve. 

 

Why don't they just fix solar to the walls instead? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Crofter]

8 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

I ask my self. 

 

The idea of a balcony is that you can see out. 

 

 

At times you may want privacy.. but you use say pot plants for that. 

 

You also want to do a bit of sun bathing. 

 

There will be a few eco enthusiasts that do this but most in real life will give it a swerve. 

 

Why don't they just fix solar to the walls instead? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nobody says you have to put them on a balcony. I think it's just a term that's used to show that you could do this if you live in a flat.

 

How often do you actually see people using their balconies anyway?

[SteamyTea]

20 minutes ago, Crofter said:

How often do you actually see people using their balconies anyway

Down here, when the weather is good, quite a lot.  Usually up country folk that think it is normal Cornish behaviour to sit out and drink a bottle of fine wine.

Truth is we prefer dark, damp and windy high street doorways with a shot of heroin.  Why the pace of life is so much slower here, no (expletive deleted)er can be bothered.

 

Edited March 30 by SteamyTea

[saveasteading]

24 minutes ago, Crofter said:

could do this if you live in a flat.

In Germany and Spain, flats are more common. People live closer together in communities rather than isolated suburbs. Good use of land, affordable.

And lots of balconies for bikes, the washing and optional and very occasional sitting out and solar panels. 

[Beelbeebub]

German talking about plug in solar (4m installs) for the UK. 

 

One interesting titbit...

 

The plug in specs/limits are designed for the likely worst case German home electrical system - he mentions "pre war" and "East German with aluminium wires and worn contacts". 

 

So the Germans have designed the systems to be safe for those scenarios. 

 

Are uk electricans, who argue that plug in solar is dangerous, arguing that uk homes are likely to have worse wiring than pre war and east German wiring? 

 

Plug in solar is going to be a useful thing for tenants. Uk rental properties could all have been inspected at least twice now so any really shocking (ha) working should be rooted out of that market segment.

[Mattg4321]

Anyone thinking this will happen in a few weeks appears likely to be disappointed. 
 

The latest NICEIC trade rag just came through and had this to say. 
 

It also doesn’t mention the problem of uni or bi directional switchgear. Anyone who has had an RCBO consumer unit fitted in the last decade is very very likely to have it full of uni directional devices. These are not permitted to be used where current potentially flows in both directions. Bi directional rcbos have only been readily available for a couple of years, if that. They are still not standard fit for most people. Usually only fitted to solar pv or EV charging. 
 

Europe has very different switchgear to us. 

 

[Dillsue]

23 minutes ago, Mattg4321 said:

Anyone thinking this will happen in a few weeks appears likely to be disappointed. 
 

The latest NICEIC trade rag just came through and had this to say. 
 

It also doesn’t mention the problem of uni or bi directional switchgear. Anyone who has had an RCBO consumer unit fitted in the last decade is very very likely to have it full of uni directional devices. These are not permitted to be used where current potentially flows in both directions. Bi directional rcbos have only been readily available for a couple of years, if that. They are still not standard fit for most people. Usually only fitted to solar pv or EV charging. 
 

Europe has very different switchgear to us. 

 

The article doesn't really comment on specific safety concerns it just says that PIS doesn't comply with current regs and needs to be safe. 

[saveasteading]

I'm always researching for you all.....

I went in to a Spanish diy store yesterday. Think b and q with more emphasis to  trade. Eg lots of plumbing and electrics that would be from survivalists in UK.

They are revamping so there was less solar  to see than is on their website.

But I could have bought from a big stack, a 440W balcony panel, for €449.

That simple. Trolley, checkout, take home and plug in.

[ProDave]

55 minutes ago, Mattg4321 said:

Anyone who has had an RCBO consumer unit fitted in the last decade is very very likely to have it full of uni directional devices. These are not permitted to be used where current potentially flows in both directions. Bi directional rcbos have only been readily available for a couple of years, if that. They are still not standard fit for most people. Usually only fitted to solar pv or EV charging

So those of us with PV fitted over 10 years ago have got the "rwong" RCD's fitted.

[Mike]

5 hours ago, Mattg4321 said:

Anyone who has had an RCBO consumer unit fitted in the last decade is very very likely to have it full of uni directional devices.... ...Europe has very different switchgear to us. 

Interesting - not heard of that before. I found a BEAMA report here with more information.

 

My French breakers don't have In/Out/arrow marking so presumably are bi-directional (it must be a Europe-wide standard) and do switch live & neutral. So safe for balcony solar if I had a balcony...

[JohnMo]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

So those of us with PV fitted over 10 years ago have got the "rwong" RCD's fitted.

Ever moving goal posts - lots of new products to sell. PV has worked for decades on normal UK electrics. But now you can't do it without bidirectional and the correct armoured cable, MCS approved mount systems etc.

[saveasteading]

 

 

5 hours ago, saveasteading said:

survivalists in UK.

Should say specialists.

 

I noticed that there is move from unknown or little known badges towards the big names.   In the typical aircon units (one out, one in) were Hitachi, mitsububishi, Haier, despite being twice the price. Also Bosch.

 

And re balcony solar,  the domestic plugs in Spain  are reversible and not well-fitting.

Edited 3 hours ago by saveasteading

[Ferdinand]

On 29/03/2026 at 20:17, Roger440 said:

 

No idea. Be good to know.

 

But if they do, germans being german will always follow the rules.

 

Midly amusing story. Went to see one of our distributors in germany. He took us out to dinner in hamburg. Then to a pub.

 

Anyway, he drove a big dodge ram and styled himself as a bit of a renegade/cowboy, against the german system etc.

 

We walked back to the hotel, about 1am. No one about. Got to a cross roads and i crossed the road. He shouted to me to stop. I said "why". Because the pedestrian signal is Red he says. 

 

He simply couldnt understand or accept that i would cross the road, using my own judgement to do so when there was a light. There were NO moving cars in sight. anywhere.

 

I found it an enlightening insight to german thinking. Albeit an isolated one.

 

Needless to say, he took some ribbing from that point on.

There was a top gear on that :

Oz is the same for over-officious police officers. I was jumped on for crossing a road safely within 3 hours of arriving last time I was there.

[SteamyTea]

4 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Ever moving goal posts

I am just looking at public liability insurance. I need insurance to take some stuff into an insured building.

I flippantly asked if I can get insurance to cover neither of the insurances paying out. 

Got a blank stare.

 

It is all about mitigating risk, not electrical engineering.

[Ferdinand]

On 30/04/2026 at 08:12, Beelbeebub said:

German talking about plug in solar (4m installs) for the UK. 

 

One interesting titbit...

 

The plug in specs/limits are designed for the likely worst case German home electrical system - he mentions "pre war" and "East German with aluminium wires and worn contacts". 

 

So the Germans have designed the systems to be safe for those scenarios. 

 

Are uk electricans, who argue that plug in solar is dangerous, arguing that uk homes are likely to have worse wiring than pre war and east German wiring? 

 

Plug in solar is going to be a useful thing for tenants. Uk rental properties could all have been inspected at least twice now so any really shocking (ha) working should be rooted out of that market segment.

UK rental electrics are on a 5 year required cycle. If there is a problem with the specs, then there will be a problem because they are inspected to the specs.

So Ts should probably ask. 

[Mattg4321]

5 hours ago, saveasteading said:

I'm always researching for you all.....

I went in to a Spanish diy store yesterday. Think b and q with more emphasis to  trade. Eg lots of plumbing and electrics that would be from survivalists in UK.

They are revamping so there was less solar  to see than is on their website.

But I could have bought from a big stack, a 440W balcony panel, for €449.

That simple. Trolley, checkout, take home and plug in.

I think you can pop into a shop over there and buy antibiotics? It doesn’t mean you can everywhere. 

 

5 hours ago, ProDave said:

So those of us with PV fitted over 10 years ago have got the "rwong" RCD's fitted.

Likely yes. I know you’re also an experienced sparks, although I think retired (my old man also retired fairly recently and wouldn’t know what I was on about with this specific subject)? I’m not sure if that was a genuine question, but in case it was…

 

As I understand it, most BS61009 devices are uni directional, unless marked otherwise. Check manufacturer’s specs. Most, if not all, BS61008 devices are bi directional, so perhaps you’re ok? BS60898 also bi directional. 

 

21 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Ever moving goal posts - lots of new products to sell. PV has worked for decades on normal UK electrics. But now you can't do it without bidirectional and the correct armoured cable, MCS approved mount systems etc.

I agree that a lot of it is total BS. 
 

However, there’s going to more than just me that’s slightly peeved if I’m not allowed to fit solar PV (and customer get paid to export) unless I spend a small fortune each year and jump through numerous hoops to be ‘MCS registered’, yet old Joe Bloggs can nip to Wickes and he’s fine to plug it into a system that isn’t safe to start with and has now been made even worse by him pushing power through devices in the wrong direction. 
 

It’s a mess. A fudge is incoming though I fear. Be interesting to see what it is. 

[saveasteading]

4 minutes ago, Mattg4321 said:

I think you can pop into a shop over there and buy antibiotics? 

No. With a prescription or if the qualified pharmacist prescribes it. You can even only buy ibuprofen and paracetamol in pharmacies.