Do I sack my builder? Help me think this through please.

[ToughButterCup]

I know the answer is ours and ours alone to make. Testing my thinking is what this post is about. Am I too involved; missing the wood for the trees, too cross to make a sensible judgement? And if I am minded to go it alone, can I follow through? Writing about it will help me think too.

 

Our builder is being evasive. Over promising. Disorganised or absent paper work. Withholding vital information until a few seconds before disappearing from the site. Some aspects of the work have been excellent, others not. He struggles to retain staff. Some are oafs. (Oaves?) Others the opposite: accurate workers, polite, funny, interesting.

 

We've had some meteorological bad luck. But that hiccup has been overcome to the extent that the replacement blocks are here. Calm analysis and talking to the loss adjuster has been reassuring.

 

I have (until now) had a misplaced faith in the value of a promise. I had a verbal agreement to pay, and  did so when I said I would. I accepted  that  detailed invoices to substantiate the charges would follow. They haven't. In simple terms, we've paid a good deal on account.

We are now at least a month behind schedule.  "... We'll be down towards the end of the week..."  Right. That's been said so often now, it's hollow.

 

I know enough about Durisol to - with the help of this community - to build the shell myself. On my own.

Very often there's a gale at the beginning of September. And I do not want the rest of the 'unpoured blocks'  on the floor.  That's the real driver 

 

Do I sack them and get on with it?

 

In an instant I would if I could get one reliable, thoughtful, fit building partner. I'd be pushing it on my own. But it can be done. Just.

 

What needs  to be done?

• Blocks laid to just above first floor: skill level - very easy
• And then poured. (tricky, but I've  seen it done three times now and I am not stupid)
• Rest of the blocks laid and poured : skill level easy to tricky (trimming the gable will be interesting), but not impossible. If I do it slowly and carefully its well within my fitness and competence level

If I do that I will have taken this mess by the scruff of the neck and got on with it.

 

Yes, it's our decision. But poke my thinking, ask uncomfortable questions. My deep instinct is to get on with it, while seeing if I can recruit someone to work with me - for safety as much as anything.

[jamiehamy]

When do you want to be in by? 

When do you need to be in by? 

Are you up for it physically? 

Do you need a warranty for the build? 

 

WHAT DOES YOUR GUT SAY? 

 

[Tennentslager]

16 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

In an instant I would if I could get one reliable, thoughtful, fit building partner. I'd be pushing it on my own. But it can be done. Just

Have you checked out gumtree under looking for work construction section?

There's a boy named Craig near you looking just now...see

[Tennentslager]

Get the app, make a few calls to potential buddies and sleep on it.

I think you know the answer but need a push to get you over the line.

Good luck, I'd offer myself but too busy next week ?

[Crofter]

What about directly contacting one or some of the 'good guys' that has been on site? Assuming they might be flexible/available.

[ToughButterCup]

34 minutes ago, jamiehamy said:

When do you want to be in by? 

When do you need to be in by? 

Are you up for it physically? 

Do you need a warranty for the build? 

WHAT DOES YOUR GUT SAY? 

 

• October (Ha!)
• January
• Yes
• No
• Do it

23 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

Have you checked out gumtree under looking for work construction section?

There's a boy named Craig near you looking just now...see

 

 

Good idea

 

20 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

Get the app, make a few calls to potential buddies and sleep on it.

 

@'king good idea

 

12 minutes ago, Crofter said:

What about directly contacting one or some of the 'good guys' that has been on site? Assuming they might be flexible/available.

 

Done that. He's hitched to a local lass who's got a dog which was once owned by a farmer who had  a goat, that in turn was once owned by a distant relative of the business owner. So I wouldn't want to embarrass him by asking.

[Jeremy Harris]

Ian,

 

You have gained a great deal of experience. 

 

You know how to build your house to the standard you want; that's clear from the way you've been picking up errors made by your builder. 

 

You can project manage the rest of the build, and hire sub-contractors directly; that will be less stressful than trying to carry on with your present main contractor.

 

You have backup, in the form of  lot of people on this forum who will respond to your questions quickly and openly.

 

As a brigadier I used to work with used to say and who had a big brass plaque behind his desk with these initials on it, JFDI

Edited August 8, 2017 by JSHarris

[Nickfromwales]

Ian, it takes a big set of brass balls to undertake what you have so far, even if that's been quietly reinforced by the presence of a 'builder'......That has obviously boosted your basic knowledge and confidence in what you can, and more importantly cannot do, so as you already know in the back of your head, this is down to how you feel you will cope. Simple. 

To break it down into the obvious, it's apparent you now feel that you can overtake the builder by replacing him with yourself + necessary others ( sub-contractors as and when ) and are, from what I'm reading, being held back by said lack of competency / and commitment from Bob ( the builder ). 

If this thread is what you need to fortify your 99% already made up mind, then do just do it. Today. Sleeping on it is another 24 hrs where your pandering to someone else whilst they decide how and when your build will progress, whilst your sat around twiddling your thumbs (  ), keen to crack the fack on. 

The "Dear Bob" chat needs to be calm, quiet and stone cold sobering, so it soaks in quickly and stealthily. Best to prepare some of the major hiccups and issues as bullet-points before hand, as the mind gets disorganised when ( if ) placed under duress, and you need to keep the upper hand to carry it through. 

If you were clueless I'd probably advise otherwise, but with advice from here there's not much which cannot be solved, methodically, it's just down to how you will achieve it physically. All you need is one decent all-rounder as your +1 and you'll be fine. Contact Bob ( revisited ) on gumtree and sound him out ASAP. It's only a phone call. 

If you were planning on PM everything after weathertight anyway, there's not much left in between, so my 2-cents....

GO FOR IT. ?

[PeterW]

Ian

 

We spoke yesterday .... he wasn't on site and the promises are being missed. 

 

I had the same with joiners and now have  a full cut roof, just a little longer than I wanted but done all the same - my answer was to take someone I trusted (in this case my brickie) and work with him to do the roof. 

 

As @JSHarris said - JFDI

 

[ToughButterCup]

Thanks, @JSHarris and @Nickfromwales. It is abundantly clear to both Debbie and I that we would not have got this far without BH as a resource. This place is a real example of the internet at its best.

 

My instinct is to get on with it.

 

Meanwhile, this week, I'm using the Piggery rebuild  as a pilot project. It's been left incomplete and -to an extent defaced- by the re-build so far. The gables need shuttering and pouring. The the roof needs building ( @Construction Channel, please watch my back with this one).

The joke is that the rear wall is badly out of line: I'm talking about an inch or so out of line (photos to follow). But that's just a bit of fun because nobody'll ever see it. And solving the problem of the out of line wall will be interesting in terms of building the roof.

 

Think, network, rethink, plan, head down, arse up, go, rethink replan, rinse repeat.

Photos to follow.

 

PS @PeterW, thanks, yes, that's the model, I think. 

[SteamyTea]

You really have two issues to deal with here.

1) Sacking the current builder

2) Getting a replacemement

 

If you do the second one first, then the first becomes easy.

 

So just a matter of finding someone decent to help you out.

Now as you are an ex academic, you probably know that out of any class of students, 1 or 2 are head and shoulders above the rest.  So why not get in touch with your local FE college that runs building courses and ask if they know of anyone.

[ToughButterCup]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

[...]

So why not get in touch with your local FE college that runs building courses and ask if they know of anyone.

 

What a good idea!

Thanks

Ian

[vfrdave]

Ian

 

We have very similar circumstances mine is a traditional build with block and I too have had meteorological bad luck as a consequence of my contractor/project manager incorrectly specifying, somewhat ironically, wind posts.  This along with other issues and oversights tipped the balance and he had to go.  It wasn't pleasant but was something that had to be done.  We are no longer on speaking terms due to the verbal onslaught that I had to listen to and there is very little re-course with telephone conversations.  I would recommend as @Nickfromwales says to bullet point all issues and give them in writing.

 

I pondered on what to do for quite a while but the relief when it was done was immense.  I have retained the brickies and whilst they do a brilliant job they are not always there but I will tolerate this until they are complete, then it is all my own trades people or me.

[Ferdinand]

When I did my "but of everything DIY" evening course at the local school / college, the lecturers also did bits of jobs from time to time.

 

Since yours is an unusual technology, perhaps you could have one of those as well - also perhaps for supervision purposes if necessary?

 

F

 

[jamiehamy]

Okay do it. And waste no time. Start tomorrow. 

 

And remember with the builder it's your money and your house.  You owe him nothing more than you a actually owe. Thanks and all the best but you'll take it from here.  

Edited August 8, 2017 by jamiehamy

[SteamyTea]

Just a second though to possibly make your life easier.

If your builder is being evasive, it could be because he don't want to be there.  He may feel out of his depth but knows he cannot do the job to the standard expected.

You will be doing him a favour getting shot of him.

[bassanclan]

I think the only thing which might hold up the decision is the financial situation.

 

I don't know how far ahead you are with payments and the likelihood of getting that back, but if you can afford to write it off then go for it, otherwise you're going to end up getting surveyors to assess the value of work done etc when it might be easier to hound the existing builder to come back until they have done enough work to bring the work up to date with the money paid.

[ToughButterCup]

1 minute ago, vfrdave said:

Ian

[...]

I have retained the brickies and whilst they do a brilliant job they are not always there but I will tolerate this until they are complete, then it is all my own trades people or me.

 

If mine had done a similarly excellent job, I would not have started this thread. It's several things all put together;

• Patchy performance
• Inability to give difficult messages, or act appropriately on being told about unsatisfactory performance
• Lack of proper paperwork, delivered on time

I understand the pressures that contractors are under. I want them to earn a good living. We all benefit by a healthy building sector.

But people machine gun themselves in the foot when they don't face difficult problems and talk to stakeholders, and then do what they say they will do. Everyone understands that situations change.  Debbie hits the nail on the head thus;

 

"By paying promptly to an agreed price and off invoice, you have enabled him to over-trade. No local traders ever expect that". That's another scale ripped unwillingly from my eyes then. And what healthy partnership is for.

 

@jamiehamy, It starts today with the Piggery. The builder is off that job. That's final. And it  gives us all a face saving mechanism.  I won't have it finished by the end of the week, and he might be back for the main house later this week. But if there's silence until next week, even Debbie will have had enough by then.

 

Shuttering the Piggery gable ends today and tomorrow. Hmmmmm, never done that before. Should be a laugh. 

[Jeremy Harris]

11 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Just a second though to possibly make your life easier.

If your builder is being evasive, it could be because he don't want to be there.  He may feel out of his depth but knows he cannot do the job to the standard expected.

You will be doing him a favour getting shot of him.

 

 

That's a very good point.

 

We've mentioned here, or on the old forum, that the building industry is a bit resistant to change, and builders are far more comfortable doing stuff the way they've always done it.  Add in that doing building work for a self-builder may well make any builder feel under a bit more pressure, because they have someone looking over their shoulder and setting higher standards than they may be used to, and it may well be that the builder would be rather throwing up an extension for someone who doesn't have a clue as to what's good or just so-so than finishing this build, using a system he's not used before.

Edited August 8, 2017 by JSHarris

[CC45]

Ian - its been coming - you can see that in your posts since the wind incident.  Since our brickie finished its just me on site and with a full time job progress is slow - dont underestimate the task.  There are a few of us around here self building and we've been helping each other accasionally - pushes the job ahead and is nice to have company / banter on site - is that an option for you?

[SteamyTea]

11 minutes ago, CC45 said:

There are a few of us around here self building and we've been helping each other accasionally

What buildhub needs is a caravan, then when any of us with a bit of time to spare, can go and helps out.

Think of it as 'disaster relief'.

Edited August 8, 2017 by SteamyTea

[MikeSharp01]

An unenviable position. A couple of things come to mind mainly around stepping back and looking at the big picture. Firstly is the builder situation getting worse or has it always been like this, IE overall progress to date is / is not an indicator of future performance. Secondly you have a mass of options at this point were you to decide to split with the builder - EG appoint another full builder, appoint a PM who pulls in trades as needed, do it all yourself, take on and employ an 'apprentice' in association with the local college to provide an extra pair of hands, go back to the University's engineering / construction dept / school / faculty and see if you can find an experienced mature student or two who would like occasional work, be your own PM and bring in trades as and when, get your architect a bit more involved for support, lots more. Thirdly have you paid VAT as part of the builders bill because you will need his invoice to claim that back? You can chase this through HMRC if push comes to shove, he is obliged to give you a VAT invoice. Finally, perhaps most importantly, is there anything else going on in your life that is going to / likely to take your emotional energy / focus off the build - suggests ways forward and / or is the current situation having effects in other areas in which case time to get back control.

[PeterW]

16 minutes ago, CC45 said:

Ian - its been coming - you can see that in your posts since the wind incident.  Since our brickie finished its just me on site and with a full time job progress is slow - dont underestimate the task.  There are a few of us around here self building and we've been helping each other accasionally - pushes the job ahead and is nice to have company / banter on site - is that an option for you?

 

Now that's a plan ..! 

 

sometimes its the moral support you need - or being told to fack offf and get your finger out by the Welsh pieboy eh @Nickfromwales..??

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

8 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

What buildhub needs is a caravan, then when any of us with a bit of time to spare, can go and helps out.

Think of it as 'disaster relief'.

We'll just hijack @ProDave's one. Imagine his families face as they wake in Lancashire . "Everybody out !"  

[Nickfromwales]

49 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

Now that's a plan ..! 

 

sometimes its the moral support you need - or being told to fack offf and get your finger out by the Welsh pieboy eh @Nickfromwales..??

 

 

Yup. When you get to the standing-and-staring-at-it stage, it's time for a kick up the arse. 

Chomping a pie whilst deciding MAY help . Better than granola. ?