The customer is not always right

[nod]

We have tiled four bathrooms for a Customer and she’s refusing to pay 

Doesn’t like them ☺️

[jack]

6 minutes ago, nod said:

Doesn’t like them ☺️

 

Just to confirm before I commit to laughing very hard: you tiled four bathrooms with tiles the customer chose. Presumably you did them in sequence, so she could see each of them being completed one at at time, but she let you finish all four.

 

And then at the very end, with all four done, she's decided she doesn't like how they look (nothing to do with your installation), so she isn't paying you?

[Mr Punter]

Did she refuse to your face?  What does she claim not to like?

[saveasteading]

Presumably someone who just doesn't want to pay. 'Why should she and what are you going to do about it?'

 

I have heard of this being quite common with carpet fitters.

One subcontractor told me they had built a porch, customer refused to pay, contractor said pay or else...'no'  ..so he went in the night and knocked it down. 

 

I think the only solution is to get legal..   that is the only way to counter what is stealing, and bullying. You can often get the first legal letter from a solicitor free or quite cheap as it is easy, and a loss leader.

 

[KTB]

Small claims court - There's nothing wrong with the job you undertook in good faith. It's the ongoing question for small businesses tho' - Deposit, materials up front and staged payments or not? 

[ToughButterCup]

Our tiler tells the exact same story, Gary. Job value about £20k. Lake District

 

What did you do about it? I asked. The answer surprised me.

 

Went round while she was there - with a lump hammer. Asked her for payment. She refused. At each refusal, he smashed one tile. 

Four tiles later, she paid, in cash - real money which she'd taken from a drawer.

 

Did he repair the smashed tiles, I asked. 

Naaaah.....

[markc]

Best thing I did getting out of contracting, still miss the fun bits but really don’t miss the payment problems. Unfortunately it wasn’t practical to go back and take buildings and bridges back down. 
hope you get your money 

[ProDave]

Yep sh!t happens when you are a tradesman.  I have a non payer at the moment but thankfully a small amount.

 

Small claims court or debt collector.

[nod]

2 hours ago, nod said:

We have tiled four bathrooms for a Customer and she’s refusing to pay 

Doesn’t like them ☺️

She said the workmenship is Naaaaaaf 

 

2 hours ago, jack said:

 

Just to confirm before I commit to laughing very hard: you tiled four bathrooms with tiles the customer chose. Presumably you did them in sequence, so she could see each of them being completed one at at time, but she let you finish all four.

 

And then at the very end, with all four done, she's decided she doesn't like how they look (nothing to do with your installation), so she isn't paying you?

She said the workmanship is Naaaaf

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

Our tiler tells the exact same story, Gary. Job value about £20k. Lake District

 

What did you do about it? I asked. The answer surprised me.

 

Went round while she was there - with a lump hammer. Asked her for payment. She refused. At each refusal, he smashed one tile. 

Four tiles later, she paid, in cash - real money which she'd taken from a drawer.

 

Did he repair the smashed tiles, I asked. 

Naaaah.....

That could have gone badly wrong.  I have heard of tradesmen who have not been paid, going round and starting to remove whatever it was they had just installed and the police were called and they got charged with criminal damage.

 

My non payer is clever, they paid half the bill so they can say the materials have been paid for, just not the labour.

[Bitpipe]

Our landscaper has had more than a few non payers, his bread & butter was block paving and he's now out of that as was not worth the grief.

 

As said above, you're in a civil contractural dispute and need to be very careful with how you persuade the client to pay as it's easy to cross line and end up on the wrong side of criminal law.

 

Also heard of a few 'revenge' tales involving postcrete and the water stopcock but again, does not get the bill paid.

[Jenni]

A friend of mines dad was a bathroom fitter, years ago he had a non payer. I don't know how, but he managed to find out they were going on holiday (might have been months / the year after, I can't remember). He took a book and a packed lunch and parked across their drive so they couldn't get out / would miss the flight. They then paid in cash. 

[joe90]

I was lucky when self employed, never had a non payer. I did have a doubt about a new customer so declined to quote and found the new builder had to take him to court to get paid, phew!! Nearly all my work was word of mouth which I found the best source of work.

[Adsibob]

I can’t see anything wrong in the photo, but It might be that she is not happy with a couple of minor details that could be “fixed” or, more accurately, changed. Before getting all legal with her. So I would ask what her dissatisfaction is based on specifically.

[Pocster]

40 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

I can’t see anything wrong in the photo, but It might be that she is not happy with a couple of minor details that could be “fixed” or, more accurately, changed. Before getting all legal with her. So I would ask what her dissatisfaction is based on specifically.

Groutings crap 😂😂😂

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Adsibob said:

minor details that could be “fixed”

A good plan. Gives the client an excuse for backing down,  and a chance to meet and discuss what happens next, that you have taken advice, the certainty of your success at court and the costs the client will incur.

It is very good that you have photos.

Now is a good time to type up the job process....dates working on each room, when the client was there and saw the work, and any comments . Also re choosing the tiles....were there samples?  I say this because you will forget details  soon, and a written report now can simply be handed over to the judge and will likely be accepted as accurate.

email your notes to a mate, or even yourself, as that kind of date stamps it.

Do not exaggerate or elaborate as this will probably be obvious.

 

I knew a famously bad payer once and an unpaid contractor friend asked how best to get paid. I advised a knock on the door and a polite reminder that the payment was overdue, while his 'driver' stood at the gate looking big. Cash immediately...there seems to be a pattern of this.

I also saw the same person getting a builders merchant delivery....and I knew the MD so phoned him.....'don't worry , we (all the merchants) all know him and he has to pay everyone in advance and doesn't get discounts.'

[nod]

5 hours ago, jack said:

 

Just to confirm before I commit to laughing very hard: you tiled four bathrooms with tiles the customer chose. Presumably you did them in sequence, so she could see each of them being completed one at at time, but she let you finish all four.

 

And then at the very end, with all four done, she's decided she doesn't like how they look (nothing to do with your installation), so she isn't paying you?

I’ve been round all four bathrooms with her Yes they are not grouted 

But look ok to me 

I think she’s just chosen the wrong tile 

 

[nod]

1 minute ago, nod said:

I’ve been round all four bathrooms with her Yes they are not grouted 

But look ok to me 

I think she’s just chosen the wrong tile 

 

Oh she did tell me the floor should have been tiled first 😂

[nod]

On 17/03/2022 at 10:49, jack said:

Just to confirm before I commit to laughing very hard: you tiled four bathrooms with tiles the customer chose. Presumably you did them in sequence, so she could see each of them being completed one at at time, but she let you finish all four.

 

And then at the very end, with all four done, she's decided she doesn't like how they look (nothing to do with your installation), so she isn't paying you?

 

That pretty much sums it up 

 

 

[saveasteading]

The law in England (don't know about Scotland) protects the landowner. The materials do not belong to the client until paid for, but the supplier has no right to remove them, even if unfixed.

I recounted this to  a European supplier and they were amazed: apparently for most of Europe the materials remain the supplier's until paid for, and they are entitled to enter the premises to remove any unfixed, or even fixed if it can be done without damage. 

 

ProDave. I always wondered if, when Britain supplies drones or tanks , they can (or do) put a dongle in there that could disable it if there is a change of allegiances. Perhaps an electrician can add such a signature to the job....a radio controlled off switch embedded in the wall perhaps.

[saveasteading]

29 minutes ago, nod said:

the floor should have been tiled first 😂

Best remember that advice for the future. Apart from her knowledge was there any other recompense? Money perhaps?

[nod]

They are actually a very good quality tile 

There’s a weeks work there for three of us 

She has asked me why I’ve put triangles in the sunken tray 

Said they look odd 

 

Tge builders contracts manager has been down and said he will pay me to take them up and replace with different tiles if need be 

The house is 950k and she’s up-to 1.3 so far 

There’s nothing wrong with the tiling 

I think the tiles are a bit plain for such large bathrooms 

We will have to replace the Impey waterproofing and probably the boards 

[nod]

8 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

The law in England (don't know about Scotland) protects the landowner. The materials do not belong to the client until paid for, but the supplier has no right to remove them, even if unfixed.

I recounted this to  a European supplier and they were amazed: apparently for most of Europe the materials remain the supplier's until paid for, and they are entitled to enter the premises to remove any unfixed, or even fixed if it can be done without damage. 

 

ProDave. I always wondered if, when Britain supplies drones or tanks , they can (or do) put a dongle in there that could disable it if there is a change of allegiances. Perhaps an electrician can add such a signature to the job....a radio controlled off switch embedded in the wall perhaps.

We are not to bad because we are working for the builder and do around 50 bathrooms per year for them 

As long as they are happy 

We are ok 

[AliG]

So I am guessing this was labour only?

 

If her builder agrees with you, she hasn't got a leg to stand on. Indeed if the builder employed you, it is none of her business. She could argue with hm and not pay him, but he has to pay you.

 

Looks like a very nice neat job to me.

 

My wife has considerable trouble imagining how things will look when done. We had a couple of instances where she thought the builders had installed different things to what she had ordered, they were correct. Thankfully we only had to repaint one room after we moved in where she didn't;t like the colour she had picked. But no retiling which I would have been quite upset about. I bet if the bathrooms were totally finished she would be happy and seeing them in a half done state doesn't help.

 

My uncle used to be a bathroom fitter and got out of it because of this. He said you could do 10k of work then someone would find a single chipped tile and try not to pay you at all.

 

 

 

[Temp]

Looks like good work to me.

 

I'm currently doing my bathroom and won't be doing the floor first although it will look like I did when its finished. I'm doing the walls above a support batten first, then the floor. Then removing the batten to do the remaining bottom row on the walls. I figure I'm less likely to drop stuff on the floor tiles this way.

 

Is it worth suggesting she gets an inspection done by the tile association or is that opening a can of worms? 

 

https://www.tiles.org.uk/services/technical-inspections/