Planning officer nightmare

[AliG]

Just a rant really unless anyone has any ideas as to how to sort this out.

 

Still plodding on with my parents' place.

 

On Friday, they noticed that their application to build a carport next to the already approved house was open for comments. I said this must be a clerical error as the application was made 12 weeks ago and the coment period had long since passed.

 

Emailed planning (they will not accept phone calls due to COVID and as of two weeks ago Edinburgh planning said they are too busy to answer individual queries about applications)

 

They emailed back that the neighbours had not been contacted originally and they had just sent this out. I was gob smacked.

 

The architect tried to email and call the planning officer for two weeks before the moratorium on speaking to officers was put in place with no response.

 

Prior to this we made an application in early 2019. After the 8 week determination deadline the architect tried to contact the officer and finally got him after 12 weeks when he said he was going to refuse the application without ever speaking to anyone about it and giving us a chance to revise it. We then had to start all over again which took months.

 

On the approved application last year, he emailed the planning consultant to say it was recommended for approval after 12 weeks. Then he said that they had forgotten to send out consultations and this further delayed things so it took a further four months for approval to be granted.

 

One of the consultations that was not made was with Scottish Water. Admittedly the architect/consultant did tell the planning officer that they had sited the house considering the position of the water main on site, but they are a statutory consultant. They  then emailed us four weeks before starting on site which has resulted in a three month delay, redesign and extra costs that could approach £20,000. The variation application is now sitting with the same planing officer.

 

Finding out on Friday that our application had been sitting for 12 weeks without the neighbours being consulted was the last straw.

 

I emailed back asking what had happened and could someone call me. No response, despite the first email being answered n 40 minutes.

 

I emailed the planning officer's boss with a summary of what has happened yesterday asking him to call me. No response.

 

I tried calling him today, straight to voicemail.

 

If I don't get him in the morning I will be trying to speak to the head of planning.

 

Consistently the architect has said that we have to keep them onside, but frankly their actions are disgraceful. My parents are 73 and 74 and distraught. They think they will be dead before the house is built.

 

 

 

 

[AliG]

I should add, I have written a formal letter of complaint also, but I hoped that  I could sort things with an informal discussion and not sent it yet. Working in planning sounds quite stressful and I don't want to get the officer into trouble, but what am I supposed to do after this litany of issues.

Edited May 25, 2021 by AliG

[Phaedrus]

You and your parents have my deepest sympathy.  I am myself wrestling with a similar planning issue with my parents (aged 79 & 76) also involved.  I well recognise the dilemma of not wishing to alienate the planning officer but also feeling you're being mugged off. 

 

The catalogue of basic administrative and procedural errors you describe is well worthy of complaint and you're not being unreasonable or unfair to the planning officer in complaining. Taking a deep breath and assessing the possible pros/cons of different approaches is sensible.  As no-one is picking up the phone, an email to the planning officer (cc their boss & head of planning) setting out your concerns and requesting a timeline for a decision seems appropriate.

 

Does the planning officer have the delegated power to approve/refuse the application? If so and they are just not moving things along, another tactic to think about is to make an informal representation to your local councillor.  They can "call in" the application for decision by the Planning Committee.  Counter-intuitive as it may seem, getting your application on the agenda can focus the mind of the planning officer and speed things along.

 

I hope you get a satisfactory response to your complaint and ultimately approval of your application.

 

 

[eandg]

I don't know City of Edinburgh Council at all but from my experience of/in various local authorities (including our largest city council) I would politely contact whichever of your local councillors is a member of the administration and advise them of your concerns and let them go to bat with the Head of Planning and DM manager on your behalf. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by eandg

[nod]

There is no direct line to our planners also

They are charging a £150 to answer each question via email 

[the_r_sole]

@AliG I'm no stranger to planners incompetence - Edinburgh have always refused to talk to you during the application process and refuse things without giving you the chance to wirhdraw/amend, it's a terrible system they have.

I've had a bit of joy before by emailing the officer, their team leader, the head of planning, the head of the council, the local Councillor for the area and an msp - all copied into the same email addressed to the head of planning.

If you complain about it, you're going to get the same level of terrible service, I usually try to keep them on side but there's a point when that goes out the window!

[epsilonGreedy]

8 hours ago, Phaedrus said:

The catalogue of basic administrative and procedural errors you describe is well worthy of complaint and you're not being unreasonable or unfair to the planning officer in complaining.

 

 

You could direct your complaint to Buckingham Palace to inform Her Majesty that her Government is not working. An ancient right available to us all I believe. Name the Chief Exec of the City of Edinburgh Council in your complaint and send him a copy of your letter, he won't appreciate incompetents in the planning office ruining his chance of a retirement OBE.

 

Failing that you need publicity to embarrass them into action. How about making a large cardboard model of your parents house, then carry it onto the steps of local council building at 9am and get your mum or dad to set fire to it while broadcasting the event live on YouTube. Imagine the headline "Pensioner's housing dream goes up in smoke while planners 'work' (sic) at home.".

[joe90]

I feel for you after battling our planners for several years, if it comes to it then go to appeal, I did (myself) and found the process quite easy and dealt with far better than the planning process itself, best of luck.

[ProDave]

Have you considered appealing on the grounds of non determination of the application?

[the_r_sole]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

Have you considered appealing on the grounds of non determination of the application?

 

Appeals in edinburgh will likely add 8-12 months onto the determination date, very much a last resort

[ash_scotland88]

7 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

 

Appeals in edinburgh will likely add 8-12 months onto the determination date, very much a last resort

That's gone up in 2-3 years.
Appealed on the decision of refusal for an extension and it was an other 8-12weeks.

[the_r_sole]

1 minute ago, ash_scotland88 said:

That's gone up in 2-3 years.
Appealed on the decision of refusal for an extension and it was an other 8-12weeks.

 

yeah, appealing against a refusal is more straight forward and you can usually get in to the next meeting where they look at the officers reports etc - when it's against a non determination they have to get an assessment done by an officer, get the planning departments recommendations, model conditions if they are minded to grant permission etc etc, so they can drag out for ages

[AliG]

Thanks for all your ideas people.

 

Only just getting going this morning as I was vaccinated yesterday and felt a bit groggy.

 

Edinburgh is also the place where vaccinations are running slowest in Scotland, although all the people at the vaccination centre were wonderful.

 

I think I will email the head of planning copying in the officer and his boss and then try and call him tomorrow if I do not hear back.

 

Thanks

 

Edit - Email sent, I said I just need to know that the delays will not compound and could someone call me about it.

Edited May 26, 2021 by AliG

[AliG]

I got an email back that the Head of Planning retired just a few weeks ago.

 

He does indeed have an OBE for "services to planning"

 

For some reason the Council didn't see fit to announce who replaced him when they announced his retirement and it was quite difficult to find out who the new Head of Planning was. I had to decipher his signature from some recently approved applications.

 

When I looked for recently approved applications I discovered many of them approved well within the 8 week target date. Yet after 13 weeks my parents' latest one is only just being sent to neighbours.

 

Every other officer we have dealt with on past applications emails to ask for an extension at 8 weeks. This one has just ignored all communication.

[gravelrash]

Just exact same in Leeds...officer suddenly retired in December and not had any information regarding replacement...had councillor involved but then just receive an email to make it look like they give a shit.

[Carrerahill]

18 hours ago, AliG said:

I should add, I have written a formal letter of complaint also, but I hoped that  I could sort things with an informal discussion and not sent it yet. Working in planning sounds quite stressful and I don't want to get the officer into trouble, but what am I supposed to do after this litany of issues.

I'd probably hold of sending this until you have full permission - listen to your architect. 

 

They are meant to put the letter out for 21 days consultation, that should be done almost immediately, then they sit on it for 5 weeks then issue grant/deny - that's the 8 week statutory period. Covid lets them re-write their own rules I think. 

 

Just build it then you will get their attention!

Edited May 26, 2021 by Carrerahill

[MortarThePoint]

They're a law unto themselves. My over 70 father approached the planners asking about replacing the bungalow he grew up in now that my grandmother has died. She had expressed her hope that he would. They said they would expect 3 or 4 houses to go in a plot of that size (3/4 acre in middle of village). Consequently it has been more of a fight than he's been subconsciously prepared to take on and now 5 years later he said to me, after reflection during Covid, that he realises he'll never get to live there. Sad, he could have been living there by now, but he doesn't handle stress. He has dutifully mowed the lawn regularly for all this time.

[AliG]

I have considered that there might be some kind of complaint to be made re the treatment of older people via planning as they do not seem to consider the time taken and stress that it causes them is likely more than younger people.

 

@MortarThePoint sorry for your dad, I really don't think they consider how their actions affect real people.

Edited May 26, 2021 by AliG

[MortarThePoint]

8 minutes ago, AliG said:

I have considered that there might be some kind of complaint to be made re the treatment of older people via planning as they do not seem to consider the time taken and stress that it causes them is likely more than younger people.

 

@MortarThePoint sorry for your dad, I really don't think they consider how their actions affect real people.

 

Thanks. I think you're right, they miss the human consequences sometimes.

 

I hope you and your parents get there soon

[AliG]

Probably worth clarifying we have permission for the house.

 

We now have two applications in. One is a variation and one is for a car port.

 

I have looked at all the variation applications recently made and they generally take 3-4 weeks to be approved. We would be quite happy with that, but the track record of the officer involved gives me no faith that there won't be a delay somehow.

 

The other application is to build a car port and garden store. This is a pretty simple application, actually a number of the comments on the original application asked why there was no garage. This is the one where after 13 weeks they only just sent out neighbour notices, something that I thought was automated and is prompting my compliant as this could mean it will take another 6 or 7 weeks to be approved at least. The average response time for householder applications is sitting at around the 8 week target date and I have no idea why this small and non controversial application might take 20 weeks.

 

Due to the delays here, I want to nip things in the bud before both applications drag on for months when they should be taking weeks. We are all set and ready to start on site.

Edited May 26, 2021 by AliG

[newhome]

28 minutes ago, AliG said:

The other application is to build a car port and garden store.

Is that not permitted development or have those rights been removed? 
 

 

[AliG]

Depending on how you look at it they are probably in front of the house. The house will be built end on to the road.

[SuperPav]

You have my sympathies and this seems ridiculous. I had to deal with a slow/incompetent planning officer during a pre-application.  Sometimes it is genuinely out of excessive workload/poor holiday timing/honest mistake etc. so I can see how one individual can let you down unintentionally. As a department, however, they are responsible for putting in place the necessary controls and resource to ensure that this doesn't happen systematically.

 

All I can advise is to make a FORMAL complaint submission, outlining very clearly 1) What has been done unacceptably, and 2) what remedy you want.

 

In my case, I essentially complained that they were impossible to get hold of and didn't respond within the councils own recommended timelines, and beyond that within a reasonable amount of time. As this was a paid pre-applicaiton, I requested in black and white: that the officer is immediately replaced with another officer to make contact with me within 3 working days by phone, and that I am refunded 50% of the application fee as I have not received a satisfactory service.

 

I got a call from the head of the department apologising, and asking me if I do want to proceed with it as a true" formal" complaint or accept the above proposed actions. I just wanted the thing to progress so withdrew my official complaint. Got a new (very good) officer on the case within a day, and got 50% of my fee refunded.

 

Never dealt with Edinburgh council so god knows what it's like but after a quick google, I would try the general complaints/customer care process for the council, if the Planning Department are impossible to contact directly.

 

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/contact-us/comments-complaints

 

Edited to add: Appeal against non-determination is the correct way of dealing with this, but pragmatically, will take so long that you personally won't gain anything other than moral high ground. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by SuperPav

[AliG]

Thanks. I already have looked at the formal complaint procedures and will move onto that next.

 

At least you seem to be guaranteed a response with 5 days going through that procedure.

[AliG]

I sent an email copying in the planning officer, his manager and the head of planning and today finally got a response.

 

There was a convoluted explanation as to why neighbour notifications had not been made. It sounded like it was not the officer's fault, although if he had looked at the application in the 13 weeks it had been in then he might have noticed it!

 

He said that once the notification period has expired, 11th June, the he will try and get the decision issued as soon as possible as well as the variation.

 

This is roughly when I was expecting the he variation to be done in the normal course of events anyway.

 

I sent a reply thanking him for responding and made sure to mention that I hoped we would get a response soon after the 11th of June. I don't want to make trouble for the guy, I just want to  get started building.

 

I'll be back in a few weeks to confirm if we get our response.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions.