Extension- Last Stuff.

[joe90]

11 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

So Ive sent email saying I demand it be removed, and a suitable replacement installed, and I'll be making formal complaint. Now, only from a hardware pov, not imstaller pov, I will say its not fit for purpose as I have exhausted all possible options.

Well done, I know it’s stressful but the only way to go I believe ?

[zoothorn]

43 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Then move your tools upstairs and your bed downstairs and just accept it as it is.

Its a workshop Declan, below ground level, next to lane, thin door to outside. I am not using it to sleep in. Up here its carpetted, french door views a room ive put alot of effort & design into ( both in fact).

 

I just need  to get this one very large radiator to work in this new bedroom, normally/ provide normal heat, coming on normal times, normal flow temp which i believe  is essential: I look in the system ( so far as vaillant directed me to find it.. totally different place than on the vrc700 before) very deep within the box unit display. And it says 37.8*C.
 

But whether this is the designated setting, or one that fluctuates so reading it gives you no real idea of what the setting is, ive no idea. So i still do not know what the flow temperature setting, put in it, is. Or what actually it is either if it keeps changing.

[zoothorn]

3 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Well done, I know it’s stressful but the only way to go I believe ?

It won't give me any way to go. I can make a complaint, but they wont remove it. They won't say anything other than its working fine, all checks out, & here's a £98 charge for coming out to dissuade me from further calls/ emails. It means, im utterly stumped joe unfortunately without options.

[joe90]

1 minute ago, zoothorn said:

unfortunately without options.

THE PRESS (or the threat of it with all the 64 pages of problems and help from members  here ) evidence = temperature of the heating water your getting (you never answered my question of DHW?).

[ProDave]

I will just drop this in here.  Someone else having trouble getting his heating up to proper temperature (in this case UFH)  found if he turned half the rooms off lo and behold the remaining rooms all heated up properly, suggesting the ASHP is under powered.

 

 

[joe90]

Well zoot, are you going to do what @ProDave says and turn on only one rad?

[Onoff]

8 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I will just drop this in here.  Someone else having trouble getting his heating up to proper temperature (in this case UFH)  found if he turned half the rooms off lo and behold the remaining rooms all heated up properly, suggesting the ASHP is under powered.

 

 

 

You lie! It took less than a page!

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

THE PRESS (or the threat of it with all the 64 pages of problems and help from members  here ) evidence = temperature of the heating water your getting (you never answered my question of DHW?).

 

Sorry can you repeat the Q. My DHW I'm happy with, I run a bath & its hot enough at 50*C I donmt think I need to know more do I on this?. Im totally demoralised now, I was bouyed up knowing hoping to find the delay 8am default setting.. but nothing. So will never have any heat in mornings ever. Not too much point putting the CH on now if I'm only warming a workshop properly, that isn't essential to. I have to fit my electric oil heater back to get morning warmth in bedroom, which is just essential to have. and I cant afford both systems on. depressing. infuriating too.

 

Can someone comment on 37.8*C flow temp. Ive no idea if its a set figure, a fluctiating figure, or what but 35-38* seems to be what Im finding on rads & if I see it in a display too.. it perhaps suggests my flow temp is somewhere here'ish. I think.

[ProDave]

FFS Try at least turning the workshop radiator OFF to stop wasting precious heat in a non habitable room and see it that allows the rest of the house to get even a tiny bit hotter.

[zoothorn]

12 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I will just drop this in here.  Someone else having trouble getting his heating up to proper temperature (in this case UFH)  found if he turned half the rooms off lo and behold the remaining rooms all heated up properly, suggesting the ASHP is under powered.

 

 

 

I dont see how this suggests anything other than what is to be expected, doing this exercise. If I had a 10kW system, turned off half rads, Id expect the remaining ones to get more attention/ heat. But also if I had a 5kW one here instead (I know is just underpowred, only slightly tho they calculated).

 

In fact Id expect if I turned off all my rads bar one, it would get hotter. How would this suggest anything of worth tho I can't understand.

 

If you ProDave had a flow temp setting you designated/ knew/ put in as 50*, would you know to expect to find actual readings of the flow temp at the rads (if say you had 8 rads all on) at considerably -less- than 50*? Or would you expect to read 50* at the rads? the consensus yesterday was 'Id expect to read 50*, at each rad, if my flow temp setting was 50*'. In which case, if these 50* rads all turned off for the same test, bar one, and its known thev flow temp was 50* put in as a setting........ how can this rad be expected to get hotter than 50* surely it can reach no higher? Afaik if I add one cup of Hw to another the mean temp doesn't increace.

[Declan52]

17 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

I dont see how this suggests anything other than what is to be expected, doing this exercise. If I had a 10kW system, turned off half rads, Id expect the remaining ones to get more attention/ heat. But also if I had a 5kW one here instead (I know is just underpowred, only slightly tho they calculated).

 

In fact Id expect if I turned off all my rads bar one, it would get hotter. How would this suggest anything of worth tho I can't understand.

 

If you ProDave had a flow temp setting you designated/ knew/ put in as 50*, would you know to expect to find actual readings of the flow temp at the rads (if say you had 8 rads all on) at considerably -less- than 50*? Or would you expect to read 50* at the rads? the consensus yesterday was 'Id expect to read 50*, at each rad, if my flow temp setting was 50*'. In which case, if these 50* rads all turned off for the same test, bar one, and its known thev flow temp was 50* put in as a setting........ how can this rad be expected to get hotter than 50* surely it can reach no higher? Afaik if I add one cup of Hw to another the mean temp doesn't increace.

Are you being serious. The point of this exercise is to provide proof that your ashp can actually fully heat a single rad hot enough to heat 1 single room. If it heats up then you know it's capable of providing hot water at this temp. The problem with yours is both that the ashp is undersized plus the rads aren't big enough to produce enough heat to heat your house. It's a process of elimination but you for whatever reason won't actually try a simple step to help us get more information so we can then advise you on what could be wrong.

Absolutely mind boggling.

[JFDIY]

Think you should ask for your money back!

[Onoff]

Discovered a word today that I'd not heard before; "twunt". No bearing on this thread, just putting it out there. 

[PeterW]

6 minutes ago, JFDIY said:

Think you should ask for your money back!

We could all ask as it was taxpayer funded ...

[zoothorn]

11 minutes ago, ProDave said:

FFS Try at least turning the workshop radiator OFF to stop wasting precious heat in a non habitable room and see it that allows the rest of the house to get even a tiny bit hotter.

 

Its a small radiator tho! 1200x 500mm.

 

I've done this very exercise anyway ProDave with one larger rad upstairs (1200 x 700mm) I turned off months ago. No discernable difference to others. That doesn't mean they didn't increace a tad, it just means due to so much cold in the house Id think, it couldn't be perceived.

 

So the idea in fact, to me, of this 7.5kW being underpowered has no merit, with this 1x whole decent sized radiator off -&- I have another undersized (is the consensus view) in kitchen -&- an even smaller rad in bathroom (towel rail- a tiddler).

 

So let's just call, for all intents & purposes, that it is working one & a half radiators 'load' -less- than it was doing.

 

This strongly suggests to me then, just by logic, that 7.5kw, for the workload it is doing, is highly likely sufficient. But no, it is deemed with conviction & a consensus, that it's "underpowered". I cannae comprehendo! Its another polar-opposite-view! (the other being 'a series of installer errors from the start'.. & I see no evidence, but only 'a series of mfr errors from start').

 

As always- I stand to be corrected (but only if I can make sense of it tho!).

 

thx zoot.

[Declan52]

But if you run this test now you have a means of measuring the temp of the pipes and provide actual data. That's the bit we need.

[zoothorn]

@Declan52 I said I will do the single rad test. Tho I don't see the logic of it. WHEN this cold snap goes. Im so damn cold here I need every scrap of heat I can.

 

Its only another assumption 'you wont do it!!'. Ive said I will. What is the rush? I live in wild west wales, & my plums have retreated. I want them descended before I start turnning off all my rads ok? Look remember changing after a swimming? the nuts thing? I get that.. while having a fkn shower godammit!! with steaming HW on me!! nuts!! up wherever the fk they go!! cos the air shivelles them up Declan52!! fan fkn heater on too!! me nuts!!

 

jesuswept.

[joe90]

@zoothorn I asked about the DHW a couple of pages ago, and it was to establish that your ASHP can deliver hot water, and it can!!!”, now ffs turn off the rads that @ProDave asked about, don’t argue about why, just do it and report back.

 

also if it works you have one room that is warm to decend your nuts.

Edited January 26, 2021 by joe90

[Thedreamer]

Is the simple fix to run the heat pump at night and put some ear plugs in when you sleep???????????????

 

 

 

 

 

[Declan52]

39 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

@Declan52 I said I will do the single rad test. Tho I don't see the logic of it. WHEN this cold snap goes. Im so damn cold here I need every scrap of heat I can.

 

Its only another assumption 'you wont do it!!'. Ive said I will. What is the rush? I live in wild west wales, & my plums have retreated. I want them descended before I start turnning off all my rads ok? Look remember changing after a swimming? the nuts thing? I get that.. while having a fkn shower godammit!! with steaming HW on me!! nuts!! up wherever the fk they go!! cos the air shivelles them up Declan52!! fan fkn heater on too!! me nuts!!

 

jesuswept.

I know we have been asking for more information but in 66 pages I don't recall anyone asking about what you get up to in a shower. Way way to much information. 

 

[ProDave]

@zoothorn

 

What have you got to lose by doing the 1 radiator test?  Why are you so dead against it?  it is as if you don't want to understand why it is under performing.

 

You can lead a horse to water...........

[zoothorn]

16 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

Is the simple fix to run the heat pump at night and put some ear plugs in when you sleep???????????????

 

 

 

 

 

No its not. Imagine an annoying whining hairdryer next to your bedrrom door on high, going on/ off, plus a low drone thru yr pillow.. its the irritation thing as much as the volume. Volume just wakes you, irritation keeps you awake. I cannot do those earplugs.

 

I said to Vaillant- whole list of problems, time to sort, stress of no sleep, unable to actually run as its designed to etc, 7 months of it.. need never have been an issue, none, IF IF the wretched indoor box thing... was placed away (well away IMO) from bedrooms.

 

I had a UT room perfect for it too back of house gnd floor! this is what infuriates me most.

[Onoff]

14 hours ago, ProDave said:

it is as if you don't want to understand why it is under performing.

 

No more attention once this is over. If he was a bird he'd be a prick tease getting all the boys at it! ?

[zoothorn]

14 hours ago, ProDave said:

@zoothorn

 

What have you got to lose by doing the 1 radiator test?  Why are you so dead against it?  it is as if you don't want to understand why it is under performing.

 

You can lead a horse to water...........

 

Im not. As said now cold snap over I will get round to it.

 

I always want to try understand the logic of tests before I do them thats all. If a reply given like Onoffs one with '12000' info in I cannot understand 95% of I'm best to try understanding purpose/ logic of a test, to give me best chance of deciphering the results in replies.

[zoothorn]

16 hours ago, Declan52 said:

I know we have been asking for more information but in 66 pages I don't recall anyone asking about what you get up to in a shower. Way way to much information. 

 

Haha.

 

Right, update on my huge efforts with vaillant which as i said ive been doing whilst thread.

 

Helpful chap in service dept, I just called about flow temp. He advised to try an alternate system set up, just as a test to see if it would UP the flow temp. Basically doing away with outside sensor & telling it to run. Then we put in higher flow temp figs, and rads went far hotter... but seemed to be on permenantly: ie the usual thermostat way i manually set temp & times.. relegated.

 

So, useful exercise in as much as all the rads belted out heat. So i know that it is capable of doing so, finally. Not so usefully thermostat room climbed to 23*, unable to control it (apart from setting a flow temp manually) so workshop way too hot, top room tho achieved 20* for 1st time. Bu, it is suddenly very mild outside of course, so far easier to reach 20* plus.

 

So Ive had to put it back to orig thermostat way. Ok i was told how to set my heat curve to 1.5 (a fig relating to 45* flow temp which seems what i want).. but unable to change the 'max flow temp' from 33*, which for whatever reason its set to. Weird. Tantalisingly close to achieving what i need that is up the flow temp from mid 30*'s.

 

Also we tweaked a 'noise reduction' mode, from 24:00 - 24:00 (meaning some form of dampening, possibly he said 1 st thing AM its tamping down rads performance).. so we changed this to just overnight up until 6.30 am, then let it go as it were. Let's see.

 

Hugely complicated. Another 1 hr call, very diligent & personable chap in service dept. But exhausting.