Extension- Last Stuff.

[Roundtuit]

My system has a nighttime set back too, with ufh downstairs and rads upstairs.  The setback period finishes about 0600 I think, and everything is up to temperature within an hour or so, but it then it only has a few degrees to lift.

[TonyT]

 

https://www.vaillant.co.uk/downloads/aproducts/controls/vrc-5/vrc700-user-manual-0020200782-03-1000692.pdf

 

user manual and you tube video attached for everyone

 

 

[Roundtuit]

OK, just watched the video, and there might be some variation of what 'setback' refers to.  I would expect that under normal circumstances you should be running in Auto mode,  with the scheduler set to deliver the required temperature for each time period.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Roundtuit

[TonyT]

You first of all have to prove the system functional and all the components.

 

given the history of your install it would be better for you to put the heating on, not auto etc just plain on all the time 

 

once it’s functional then start using set back 

Edited January 26, 2021 by TonyT

[zoothorn]

34 minutes ago, Roundtuit said:

My system has a nighttime set back too, with ufh downstairs and rads upstairs.  The setback period finishes about 0600 I think, and everything is up to temperature within an hour or so, but it then it only has a few degrees to lift.

 

Ok but if you were to have your CH running overnight, would it make noise enough to be disruptive to sleep?

 

Is this the core reason maybe you choose to use the overnight setback setting?

 

(I know someone on here mentioned they put theirs to setback overnight, for this very reason, ie because they just want it totally quiet at night: the very core reason I choose to use mine).

[zoothorn]

17 minutes ago, TonyT said:

You first of all have to prove the system functional and all the components.

 

given the history of your install it would be better for you to put the heating on, not auto etc just plain on all the time 

 

once it’s functional then start using set back 

 

Effectively what Ive done for months 18.5*C day temp, just leave as is because ramping it to 22* for evenings/ mornings it can never achieve, it always hovvers around 18-19* (once its spent 8 hrs getting there) anyway so whats the point: plus PeterW saying 'dont d*ck with it leave it alone'.

 

.. but I cannot leave it on 24/7 if thats what you suggest, it must be turned off overnight or I cannot sleep.

[TonyT]

Yes, I remember you like to sleep, but the heating has to be given a chance to ramp up, along with you taking temperature readings at the same time. 
 

 

[TonyT]

8 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 plus PeterW saying 'dont d*ck with it leave it alone'.

 

quire right but instead of providing the info we all hoped you went on a new tangent of setback!

 

jesus man, listen to what people are saying

[Roundtuit]

20 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Ok but if you were to have your CH running overnight, would it make noise enough to be disruptive to sleep?

 

Is this the core reason maybe you choose to use the overnight setback setting?

 

(I know someone on here mentioned they put theirs to setback overnight, for this very reason, ie because they just want it totally quiet at night: the very core reason I choose to use mine).

No, I don't notice the noise.  It's not silent, but not intrusive; just part of the background noise, like a whisper from the MVHR and the hum of the fridge!

 

Anyway, back to the 'one radiator' test now! ?

[zoothorn]

@TonyT I cannot establish if it is functional you see. I -think- I have at last found it's not due to the flow temp 20*C too low... but should I expect to read this under the indoor unit, with my rads going, & 55*C put into it, instead of the suggestion of turning all rads off bar one?? (I will try this test once v.cold patch eases) Im not asking you, that's a rhetorical Q. But it does suggest it is -not- correctly functional. But how can I say.

 

I asked Vaillant re. the flow temp 35*C, but no response just a finality now "we've done all we can", when Ive only just found this is in question once sensor thermometres got.. & the noise overnight continues: I know -only- that this noise is it not functioning correctly. That is definite. But they will not it seems now, resolve it tho.

 

They have just replied (!) with a settings tweak to try later, in this unit ^ (installer level section this clip will likely avoid) to address the delayed 8am cold rads thing. Finger's x'd on this & will solve 1 of the 3 issues if so. I might have to accept as is/ get results on this 1 of 3.. & just accept the other 2. Its too exhausting.

[TonyT]

You typed the first 9 words on your last post that made sense the rest is jibberish , I’m taking a break from this thread again. 

[zoothorn]

18 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Yes, I remember you like to sleep, but the heating has to be given a chance to ramp up, along with you taking temperature readings at the same time. 
 

 

 

As said its been on for months now. If a setback setting is normal-to-use, & sleep is prevented from having it on overnight (plus I never would want heating on overnight anyway- this is not a normal setting) then I simply expect it to be functional used like so, this is a normal ssettings situation, so normal functionality should be expected.

 

35*C flow temp, delay rads until 8am, coming on overnight.... are the 3 reasons it is, currently, not functional.

 

If I can address/ change the first two.. then it is mostly functional (i would make a stab at suggesting) And then just leaves the overnight coming-on for me to threaten legal action, all fkn guns, big boy pants on last chance salloon try at Vaillant. My last gasp.

 

thx zH

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, TonyT said:

You typed the first 9 words on your last post that made sense the rest is jibberish , I’m taking a break from this thread again. 

 

I think I have found that it -is- not functional, due to finding 20*C too low on the flow temp.

 

That is simple to understand, that is what I wrote in the 2nd sentence. This is the main point of the post.

 

Whether that is a reasonable assumption (for me) to make, is the secondary point.

[Onoff]

8 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

plus I never would want heating on overnight anyway- this is not a normal setting

 

If your house is that cold at night then you might actually want the heat to come in for a bit surely? The house heats up and it loses heat simple as that. How long it takes to lose it is dictated by the level of insulation, the decrement delay of the structure and the air tightness. In your case piss poor for the most part like my house. If you go to bed and the house is warm, then the heating goes off, it'll likely be bloody cold again before you wake up.  

Edited January 26, 2021 by Onoff

[joe90]

51 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I think I have found that it -is- not functional,

At fecking last, another way of saying it’s not fit fir purpose that I have been banging on about fir ages.

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

If your house is that cold at night then you might actually want the heat to come in for a bit surely? The house heats up and it loses heat simple as that. How long it takes to lose it is dictated by the level of insulation, the decrement delay of the structure and the air tightness. In your case piss poor for the most part like my house. If you go to bed and the house is warm, then the heating goes off, it'll likely be bloody cold again before you wake up.  

 

Totally understand Onoff. If I knew putting it on for a bit overnight (Vaillant concur too i think, of sorts: we recommend an overnight setback setting of min 3* less than your day temp they say) would help.. Id put up with this sweaty & wasteful idea I hate the very idea of.

 

But I can't put it on overnight because during heating-on: it produces noise. Like ProDave who also wants his to be quiet so sleep is not disturbed or interrupted -a normal prerequisite- he gets his to shut the fk up overnight, using a night setback. I think its ProDave. Or Declan.

 

No, look: its the morning rad cold issue, & general low rad temp issues that are my probs. Ok some AM rad delay setting I've finally had proof exists from Vaillant today, so I can now go in its brain & tell the 8am delay to STOP. With luck. So leaving the only things perhaps you guys can help with:

 

1) the flow temp thing (establishing if it's fkd or not, definitively) &

2) the specific room cold issue (weird extention: warm lower room w'small rad, far colder top room w'huge rad) a tricky one, but if flow temp is being a fkn jackass then it might just be this (how to up flow temp tho.. might be a whole new Vaillant battle).

3) maybe general BTU opinions: I will get all info now.

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

At fecking last, another way of saying it’s not fit fir purpose that I have been banging on about fir ages.

 

Haha. My point is joe it's nit fir me to make this judgement. Ive moaned it is tho for as long as you: but who is responsible for it being nit fot.. is ebony & ivoreeee... polar opposite opinions.

[Declan52]

Turn off all the rads except the one in your bedroom then it will hopefully be warm for you going to bed on the day you do the test. So when you wake up in the morning do this simple task please. It won't take all day to get the rad to temp and conduct this simple test that should have been done ages ago. If after 4/5 hrs that one rad isn't hot to touch then as @ProDave has repeatedly said your issue is with the ashp. But and it's a big but if it does actually get hot then you know then it's a plumbing issue involving the undersized rads. 

And for all our sanity please record the temp of the pipes on both sides of the rad every hour. This will then give you vital data you can use to prove this system isn't working. 

[dpmiller]

I'm of that mind that if you don't let it run CONTINUOUSLY for about three days you don't actually know what it's doing.

 

Cost and noise be darned, at least you could say you'd done it then.

[Onoff]

13 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Id put up with this sweaty & wasteful idea I hate the very idea of.

 

You can't have it all ways! You're either too cold or too hot...like effin Goldilocks! ? The ideal is that you're not freezing cold when you sleep thus you have it come on periodically through the night if you want to maintain a stable temperature. The greater your heat losses through the fabric the more often it will come on. Cut down on your losses it'll come on less. Alternatively accept it'll be cold throughout the night, and when you get up for piss, chuck on another blanket but have the heat come on a bit before you get up to take the chill off at least. 

 

Appreciate you'd like it "quiet" when it does come on.

[Onoff]

Case in point, I've slept before with a bobble hat on when it's been that cold here. Similarly I've slept with ear plugs in when No.1 son was going through his hear it through walls "F***ING KILL IT DOMINIC!" gaming phase. Mind you I've slept in a trench I've dug myself.....

[joe90]

34 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

My point is joe it's nit fir me to make this judgement.

OH YES IT IS, YOU ARE THE CUSTOMER!!!!

[zoothorn]

8 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

You can't have it all ways! You're either too cold or too hot...like effin Goldilocks! ? The ideal is that you're not freezing cold when you sleep thus you have it come on periodically through the night if you want to maintain a stable temperature. The greater your heat losses through the fabric the more often it will come on. Cut down on your losses it'll come on less. Alternatively accept it'll be cold throughout the night, and when you get up for piss, chuck on another blanket but have the heat come on a bit before you get up to take the chill off at least. 

 

Appreciate you'd like it "quiet" when it does come on.

 

I think Ive cracked it. I should put the CH on overnight, & live during the night and go to sleep during the day. when its cold.

 

You sound like my mum 'oh just put a blanket on'! Ive accepted most of the house will be cold, is cold. Not the new top room tho/ this is the only one I will not accept as is, especially if the one below's laughing at me all toasty. At least I'm fat that really does help i think.

[Declan52]

17 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

I think Ive cracked it. I should put the CH on overnight, & live during the night and go to sleep during the day. when its cold.

 

You sound like my mum 'oh just put a blanket on'! Ive accepted most of the house will be cold, is cold. Not the new top room tho/ this is the only one I will not accept as is, especially if the one below's laughing at me all toasty. At least I'm fat that really does help i think.

Then move your tools upstairs and your bed downstairs and just accept it as it is.

[zoothorn]

4 hours ago, Roundtuit said:

No, I don't notice the noise.  It's not silent, but not intrusive; just part of the background noise, like a whisper from the MVHR and the hum of the fridge!

 

Anyway, back to the 'one radiator' test now! ?

Well mine is totally different. At its quietest its made the spare room its in ( cylinder and indoor box thing) impossible for anyone to use as a bedroom. And at the dead of night, the droning heating noise it makes is intrusive enough to wake me, a normally heavy sleeper, 3 rooms away. Enough i can hear the dull vibrations through the pillow, and a prominent irritating whining higher pitched pump noise intermittantly onto this too. For the 2 beds closer to it, at dead of night, it is -hugely- disruptive. A fridge is completely incompatible as a comparison. I could live fine with a fridge noise next to my bed. This is wholly different. If I had had a son or daughter in this spare room here, it would have ruined their room/ and life as they'd have to sleep insittingroom.
 

So it is utterly unfeasable to put the damn heating on overnight. I do not want 8 x rads on overnight. Ive never had or known any house to have its rads on overnight.

 

Ive had a major dissapointment just now hoping to find this morning 8 am delayed start to the rads setting i could finally change to get the rads performing early, as they should,  but nothing of the sort found. Just 24:00 - 24:00. Im fkn furious now. I have had it.
 

So Ive sent email saying I demand it be removed, and a suitable replacement installed, and I'll be making formal complaint. Now, only from a hardware pov, not imstaller pov, I will say its not fit for purpose as I have exhausted all possible options.