Grand Designs

[Bitpipe]

2 hours ago, Moonshine said:

i read the latest posts on this thread, not realising that the house was the one that i have grown to hate at Saunton sands.

 

I surf / sup round that way and its fugly as, i know the construction had been going on for years, but not the actual massive issues with it.

 

I might have to force myself to watch the episode.

 

I used to be an avid GD watcher but since completing our own I really can't watch it anymore - can't say why exactly but probably to do with the scant detail of the things that really interest me about a build.

 

Instead I caught a documentary on Yesterday about underground structures - this is fascinating -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williamson_Tunnels,  a late Georgian era eccentric multi millionaire who quietly created vaulted ceilings over exhausted sandstone quarry workings to create viable land for housing above and generate useful employment for locals. The Victorians then treated it as a giant landfill site and it was forgotten about. No plans or documentation survive. In the last 10 years, it was re-discovered and has been re-excavated by volunteers.

 

 Best part is, you don't need to look at it if you don't want to

[Vijay]

14 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Divorce into the bargain...

Yep, don't go on Stictly or Grand Designs if you love your partner  lol

[Bitpipe]

6 minutes ago, Vijay said:

Yep, don't go on Stictly or Grand Designs if you love your partner  lol

 

Quick, call the BBC - I think you may have hit on a new format there.

[kxi]

45 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

Instead I caught a documentary on Yesterday about underground structures - this is fascinating -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williamson_Tunnels,  a late Georgian era eccentric multi millionaire who quietly created vaulted ceilings over exhausted sandstone quarry workings to create viable land for housing above and generate useful employment for locals. The Victorians then treated it as a giant landfill site and it was forgotten about. No plans or documentation survive. In the last 10 years, it was re-discovered and has been re-excavated by volunteers.

 

I had a brief tour shortly after they started re-excavating, around 2000. A story cited was the sandstone cutting into Lime Street station was being dug at the same time, and at one point the labourers working on the cutting unexpectedly broke through into a dimly lit underground chamber filled with toiling diggers (the in-progress Williamson Tunnels) and fled believing they had uncovered Hell and its dammed minions.

[joe90]

Just watched it on catch up, silly plonker, yes he took a massive gamble, but lost, even his wife. A message to us all, be realistic about your expectations.

[Barney12]

1 hour ago, Vijay said:

Yep, don't go on Stictly or Grand Designs if you love your partner  lol

 

You missed out.....or don't want a child. If they don't split up they almost always get pregnant during the build  

[Vijay]

11 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

 

You missed out.....or don't want a child. If they don't split up they almost always get pregnant during the build  

lol don't know where they get the energy!!  

[Barney12]

46 minutes ago, Vijay said:

lol don't know where they get the energy!!  

 

I'd always assumed it was down to Kevin McCloud  

[AliG]

TBF there have been two divorces this series, but I don't remember there being any before, maybe one. There was that one last year where the GF mysteriously disappeared. Considering the divorce rate that's not bad.

[AliG]

The Devon house story is featured in the Daily Mail today.

 

The comments are as smugly mean as you might expect, but two points came out of them.

 

1. Apparently he borrowed £2.5m from small investors in Funding Circle in 2016 to progress the build and  according to commenters has defaulted on this. I have not found any more information on this, but it seems strange to lend this without security.

 

2. Was it a dream house or was it actually a property development? Considering the numerous comments on the show about how much the finished house would be worth, how much the smaller house was worth and the borrowing on what appears to be commercial terms, is this really an overambitious property development? It may be that is what it became when the money ran out, but I can't help but feel it was maybe done with a profit motive not a dream home motive.

 

Edit:

 

So I found someone on Funding Circle saying that they have so far invested £3m and have not seen a penny back yet, property development loans do not amortise, they are interest only until the development is sold or refinanced, although apparently the normal term is 12 months. I do not believe it has defaulted and I suspect that it is secured on the property. Funding Circle were projecting a 30% return from the project, but are reviewing this. If this is true and the house was to eventually be finished the owner will have paid out I reckon over £1.5m in interest. Funnily enough Funding Circle stopped doing property development loans last year and no longer publish their default rates.

Edited October 10, 2019 by AliG

[Roundtuit]

11 hours ago, Vijay said:

Yep, don't go on Stictly or Grand Designs if you love your partner  lol

 

11 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

 

Quick, call the BBC - I think you may have hit on a new format there.

 

Like it!  Strictly Come Building.  Pair-up with a professional to make you look half competent, share your issues and tissues with anyone who's prepared to listen, and you've got a one in 15 chance of coming out a winner!

 

Oh... Hang on... Sounds a bit too familiar...

[Bitpipe]

16 hours ago, AliG said:

The Devon house story is featured in the Daily Mail today.

 

The comments are as smugly mean as you might expect, but two points came out of them.

 

1. Apparently he borrowed £2.5m from small investors in Funding Circle in 2016 to progress the build and  according to commenters has defaulted on this. I have not found any more information on this, but it seems strange to lend this without security.

 

2. Was it a dream house or was it actually a property development? Considering the numerous comments on the show about how much the finished house would be worth, how much the smaller house was worth and the borrowing on what appears to be commercial terms, is this really an overambitious property development? It may be that is what it became when the money ran out, but I can't help but feel it was maybe done with a profit motive not a dream home motive.

 

Edit:

 

So I found someone on Funding Circle saying that they have so far invested £3m and have not seen a penny back yet, property development loans do not amortise, they are interest only until the development is sold or refinanced, although apparently the normal term is 12 months. I do not believe it has defaulted and I suspect that it is secured on the property. Funding Circle were projecting a 30% return from the project, but are reviewing this. If this is true and the house was to eventually be finished the owner will have paid out I reckon over £1.5m in interest. Funnily enough Funding Circle stopped doing property development loans last year and no longer publish their default rates.

 

I've met a quite few entrepreneurs in the tech world over the years and they are all propelled by a complete absence of self doubt, some are bordering on the evangelical .

 

Where you or I would look at the numbers or the market and say 'Nope, this won't work (or won't work within a sensible timescale / budget) ', they drive ahead with a vision (and often lots of other people's money). A small percentage are genuinely successful and create sustainable businesses, some have modest success and bump along (great times just around the corner, keep funding us) and a good chunk just crash and burn quite visibly.

 

Can't help but think this guy was one of those characters.

[ProDave]

The thing that struck me was the fragile nature of the site. They were expecting the softer rock layer to erode over time and leave the house sitting on it's piles right on the edge on the harder rock face.  Seriously would anyone pay £millions for a house in that precarious position?

[joe90]

1 hour ago, Bitpipe said:

Where you or I would look at the numbers or the market and say 'Nope, this won't work (or won't work within a sensible timescale / budget) ', they drive ahead with a vision (and often lots of other people's money). A small percentage are genuinely successful and create sustainable businesses, some have modest success and bump along (great times just around the corner, keep funding us) and a good chunk just crash and burn quite visibly.

 

Actually makes me think of Brunel (Isambard Kingdom) although he had great success when he built the suspension bridge in Bristol he ran out if money (investors money) put the build on hold for decades and he even sold the chains to fund something else . The bridge was only completed after his death as a memorial and paid for by new investors and the new chains came from his Hungerford bridge which was being demolished.

[jack]

2 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

I've met a quite few entrepreneurs in the tech world over the years and they are all propelled by a complete absence of self doubt, some are bordering on the evangelical .

 

I was involved in a startup (first employee) and that's exactly what the founder was like. Very bright guy, but utterly lacking any form of doubt or cynicism. No way the company would have gotten where it got without that, but for every one that's wildly successful there're probably tens that aren't.

[LA3222]

Just seen this episode....anyone else left thinking that his architect was a bawbag who was only interested in his vision and how wonderful the curves were.

 

Oh yes, to build a curve isn't easy as every block has to be cut at an angle?‍♂️ nice one nobhead, clearly not bothered about cost.

 

Yes the client was living in the clouds but I found the architects attitude rubbed me the wrong way.

 

When his kids got to their teens he should have wrapped, never going to be the family home he wanted when they're about to fly the nest.

 

Divorced and broke, what a shambles.  I wonder what the divorce rate is amongst self builders?  My wife's living in a caravan for two years whilst I live in a Travelodge room - should I be worried??

[Jeremy Harris]

2 minutes ago, LA3222 said:

Just seen this episode....anyone else left thinking that his architect was a bawbag who was only interested in his vision and how wonderful the curves were.

 

Oh yes, to build a curve isn't easy as every block has to be cut at an angle?‍♂️ nice one nobhead, clearly not bothered about cost.

 

Yes the client was living in the clouds but I found the architects attitude rubbed me the wrong way.

 

When his kids got to their teens he should have wrapped, never going to be the family home he wanted when they're about to fly the nest.

 

Divorced and broke, what a shambles.  I wonder what the divorce rate is amongst self builders?  My wife's living in a caravan for two years whilst I live in a Travelodge room - should I be worried??

 

I spent an hour or so in the architectural museum at Bath last week.  I got chatting to one of the volunteer staff there, who pointed out that at the time that the grand Regency buildings in Bath were being built, architects were joiners and masons who had gone on to study design, after many years of working "on the tools". 

 

The thought that went through my head was that it's a pity this no longer seems to happen, as I doubt that anyone with a solid background in hands-on construction would likely to come up with designs that their clients would be unable to afford.

[LA3222]

10 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

I doubt that anyone with a solid background in hands-on construction would likely to come up with designs that their clients would be unable to afford.

I just got the impression that he didnt care.  It was almost like the house was his crowning design masterpiece, something for his name to live on in, as the designor of this wonderful house with curves...ya...ya..ya....and I just don't think cost was in his mind - 'that's the clients problem' is how it seemed to me.

 

Don't get me wrong - it did look amazing and the way the value of the plot etc seemed to go up, I suspect it will be worth at least what it cost to build, unfortunately for the client he didn't have that budget.

 

A shame, when it showed them down at the water they seemed to have a great little private area, they had their stuff there and it was theirs.  Now it's all going to have to be sold for someone else to enjoy. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by LA3222

[Visti]

I found the lighthouse episode to be quite a downer. Very divorced from reality in many areas; the scale of the house, financing, foundations, staging of works etc... Just all seemed excessively naive. Sad overall really, losing such a wonderful spot when they could just have settled on the smaller house.

 

Agree with @LA3222, the architect was likely a cause, overselling his vision without thought on budget. Shame the builder didn't get more sound advise elsewhere.

[LA3222]

With £250,000 on design fees I suspect the architect was well paid. 

[SteamyTea]

8 minutes ago, LA3222 said:

With £250,000 on design fees I suspect the architect was well paid. 

And almost certainly got his fees.

[Pete]

56 minutes ago, LA3222 said:

Just seen this episode....anyone else left thinking that his architect was a bawbag who was only interested in his vision and how wonderful the curves were.

 

Oh yes, to build a curve isn't easy as every block has to be cut at an angle?‍♂️ nice one nobhead, clearly not bothered about cost.

 

Yes the client was living in the clouds but I found the architects attitude rubbed me the wrong way.

 

When his kids got to their teens he should have wrapped, never going to be the family home he wanted when they're about to fly the nest.

 

Divorced and broke, what a shambles.  I wonder what the divorce rate is amongst self builders?  My wife's living in a caravan for two years whilst I live in a Travelodge room - should I be worried??

I thought the smarmy comments from Kevin McCloud throughout the programme was not appropriate. Yes we know the owner was clearly in a dream world and made a real mess of the whole situation not helped by the architect but to make fun of the situation is Mr Cloud's forte

[Ferdinand]

12 hours ago, LA3222 said:

Just seen this episode....anyone else left thinking that his architect was a bawbag who was only interested in his vision and how wonderful the curves were.

 

Oh yes, to build a curve isn't easy as every block has to be cut at an angle?‍♂️ nice one nobhead, clearly not bothered about cost.

 

Yes the client was living in the clouds but I found the architects attitude rubbed me the wrong way.

 

When his kids got to their teens he should have wrapped, never going to be the family home he wanted when they're about to fly the nest.

 

Divorced and broke, what a shambles.  I wonder what the divorce rate is amongst self builders?  My wife's living in a caravan for two years whilst I live in a Travelodge room - should I be worried??

 

Maybe ... needs a watching brief.  Mentioned on here from time to time.

 

With a risk of having my head chopped off for sticking my neck out (said the giraffe), you could perhaps should be maintaining your relationship as you do your house; little and often with rituals that enforce regular attention on both sides. Suspect that most people do stuff anyway.

 

As I understand it, one thing is not to drift off from knowing each other as well as you did before the build whilst you both change, and a regular whatever to stop the underpinning resilience of the relationship being drained away. So to speak to evolve together rather than in different directions which potentially creates a ‘gap’. 

 

F

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Ferdinand

[LA3222]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Maybe ... needs a watching brief.  Mentioned on here from time to time.

 

With a risk of having my head chopped off for sticking my neck out (said the giraffe), you could perhaps should be maintaining your relationship as you do your house; little and often with rituals that enforce regular attention on both sides. Suspect that most people do stuff anyway.

 

As I understand it, one thing is not to drift off from knowing each other as well as you did before the build whilst you both change, and a regular whatever to stop the underpinning resilience of the relationship being drained away. So to speak to evolve together rather than in different directions which potentially creates a ‘gap’. 

 

F

 

 

Ha Ha, I was being tongue in cheek when I said should I be worried.  

 

However, that being said I can see how self build can destroy families.  It is easy to get so wrapped up in the build that it chips away at a marriage a bit at a time.  I have two young kids (8&9) and it does weigh on my mind that I need to continually make time for them whilst also progressing the build so they have a house to live in.

 

We live apart during the week so they get the worst of it, however it is what they want so everything is a ok at the minute.

 

Two/three years like this though could easily take it's toll.

 

I guess a lot depends on where you start from.  Is it a joint desire to self build or is one partner the driving force and the other along for the ride.  I think it needs a complete buy in from both in order to fight through the rough spots.  A lot of the grand designs programmes, it seems to me that the dream is not shared, usually it's the blokes dream and the wife just goes along with it.

 

To be fair though, I am not aware of any on here ending up divorced after self building - maybe it's just the grand designs effect where they skew the outlook by deliberately choosing stressful/prone to fail builds for dramatic effect.

 

And yes, Kevin McCloud does come across as smug/condescending at times - not a good trait, particularly in light of his own recent professional short comings.

[epsilonGreedy]

On 11/10/2019 at 10:10, jack said:

I was involved in a startup (first employee) and that's exactly what the founder was like. Very bright guy, but utterly lacking any form of doubt or cynicism. No way the company would have gotten where it got without that, but for every one that's wildly successful there're probably tens that aren't.

 

 

Entrepreneurs learn what investors want and so emit appropriate signals to attract investment. The hi-tech early stage venture system of Silicon Valley knows that 70% of start-ups fail but those losses will be covered by the big investment wins like eBay or Uber. The system breeds ambitious entrepreneurs who pursue big ideas with single-minded obsession.

 

A start-up aiming to open the first hotel on the moon will be punished through lack of follow-on investment rounds if it pivots to running donkey pilgrimage tours in Northern Spain. Silicon Valley angel investors talk in disparaging terms of "life-style" businesses formed out of starts-ups that abandon the big founding dream. There might be a sustainable business in operating donkey tours but it will not payback the early angel investment.