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Hello. Our gas boiler insurer no longer covers our terraced home heating system because the gas pipe running from our meter to the kitchen is steel. It runs under our wooden ground floor and its length is about 15 feet with another couple of feet for the angled bits around the meter. Would having this steel pipework replaced with copper be very expensive? Our house is a 1930s terraced build. Please see the pictures. The last picture shows the gas pioework where it enters the kitchen and splits to the gas hob and the boiler. We have an option not to replace the pipe and get insurance with another insurer who dosent exclude steel pipework. The difference between the 2 insurers policies is £170 and £565. Any thoughts are very welcome. Thanks David

Hi Just wondering if repairs done by British Gas to my combi boiler come with a guarantee? Had it serviced under contract and some parts replaced 4 weeks ago but gradually the old problem of no hot water downstairs has returned. We were told at the time it was probably a diverter valve problem which the engineer replaced. Central heating upstairs and downstairs is fine but sink and shower hot water has recently become very slow to heat and often goes cold after a minute or two. The system pressure is down to below the safe minimum level today so we had to turn it off. I haven't noticed any leaks anywhere. A British Gas engineer is booked to come tomorrow and as there's an excess to pay on repairs with our service cover I'm wondering if it's likely that they will waive it because of the previous repairs not having been successful? All thoughts welcome. Thanks David

I am in the process of buying a house. Given kwh cost of electricity - I am hoping to swap out the direct unvented hot water cylinder (in the landing airing cupboard) with a direct equivalent. Underfloor heating manifolds are in the same cupboard. Boiler (feeding underfloor heating) is in the attic. Assuming given presence of a boiler this is possible? Any foreseeable issues and an idea of expected costs would be much appreciated.

Evening, I have been looking, sourcing and trying to design a heating system for our barn conversion. I initially contacted several reputable GSHP/ASHP suppliers and they have come back with system designs with pumps in the region of 25kW to 30kW. Granted our property is quite large but I have been suspicious over their assumptions and calculations as none of them asked me any detailed questions about our build materials etc. Before just slinging something in I have consequently made the effort to use @Jeremy Harris Heat Loss Calculator, whilst at it I also used @Lilly_Pines Solar Gain Calculator. At the worst in January I have calculated a hourly requirement of 4.41 kWh if we exclude any solar gain it is 5.82 kWh. Now I can't understand why I would need a 30kWh capable pump? Either my calculations are too good to be true and the building will never perform so well in real life/a input mistake has been made... or the suppliers are massively overcompensating. Or am I missing something else? The next issue is (whether the above is right or wrong) is installing a system that can run on ASHP and another heat source. We are off-grid - so no choice but to use another source of heat. Probably oil for ease of use. However I am seriously considering using a boimass boiler or woodburner with back boiler, this would have to be connected up to a thermal store which from most forum posts is unpopular compared to UVC. (Why is that?) I have provided monthly solar generation from a 33kW Solar PV array as per https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/tools.html I assume it is accurate enough - it is suggesting a PV generation in winter which is 19% of summer output which I have seen bounded around. If my calculations are correct I have expanded Jeremy's spread sheet to estimate oil usage and it is relatively negligible so burning wood seems unnecessary unless my calculations are all wrong... I have attached my spreadsheet for those interested/willing to have a look - I have noticed @SteamyTea is pretty good at crunching the numbers. Appreciate anyone's thoughts and opinions on the matter. Edit: this is a continuation of thoughts from a post a few months ago - appreciate the responses from everyone there but realised I lacked useful detail and my own calculations. Heat loss calculator - My Barn.xlsx

Hello, looking for a bit of advice. I’ve recently moved into a new home and the heating system is completely different to my old house (combi boiler) This house has a thermal storage tank that’s heating by a 18kw Heat only boiler and also has the multi-fuel stove connected to it to provide an additional heat source for the cylinder. Cylinder is kept at 63/64°. I’ve no problem with DHW however if I turn my underfloor heating on (15 loops, ranging in length from 110m to 54m + 3 towel rails for in the bathrooms) my Thermal store cools down to around 30° and seems to stay there, even after an hour of running the heating. I understand that when the heating has been off and the UFH is cold, I’m asking for a big volume of water in all the loops to be heated, however the UFH mixing valve is set to 45°, the water in the tank is showing 30° so my slow to heat UFH system is now even slower due to the temp of the water getting to the manifolds. As mentioned, I have an 18kw Greenstar Ri boiler and a Mcdonalds ThermFlow tank 210L - schematic below of tank and loops for the UFH. 17mm Myson pipe. Is the boiler big enough (output wise) to supply the tank hot water quick enough so I don’t drop below 45° This meaning my UFH manifolds have the correct temp water going to them to start with? Is the tank big enough in capacity to cope with the sudden request to dump the stored hot water into the floor? Combination of both? Am I asking to much of the system and just be prepared to bring each room up to temp slowly? Appreciate your help with this

Question Do you use less gas heating cylinder to produce DHW or direct from a combi gas boiler? My thoughts are - A combi will start up quite a few times and have a short run times, worst efficiency. Filling a cylinder will be longer run time, so should be more efficient. But I am not sure, what are your thoughts?

HI Everyone, I have a large 3 bed 2nd floor flat which cannot have gas. I had it refurbished 3 years ago. I took the decision rightly or wrongly to install water piped underfloor heating with a 14.4Kw electric boiler. Sadly I did not project manage the job and the builders were not good at all. They never checked the floor levels before they installed the underfloor heating, and ended up cheating in two of the largest rooms by pouring latex over the top of the heating to get rid of the undulations in the floor. They have since gone bust:-( My issue is the heating is so expensive to run. I am facing an annual electric bill of £8000 or more now, and that is with the cheapest supplier I can find. So I am looking at all of my options to try and reduce the cost. I know I can improve the insulation in the apartment, as there are a lot of cavities around the walls, as being top floor I have vaulted ceilings in every room. Whilst the loft is fully insulated, the purchase of a thermal imaging camera as shown that there are big areas around the sides of most rooms which could not be as easily accessed, and were left by my lovely builders. But insulation aside, I need to try and find a more energy efficient way to heat my home as this is killing me I have considered a heat pump boiler, but I do not believe I would be allowed to install the outside unit here as being a block of flats, putting anything outside is a no go. I have spoken to a heat pump installer who has informed me that the unit cannot be installed in a loft, even if I created a well ventilated area, as it still will not be enough air circulation etc. The boiler I have is slimJim (see link below), I am wondering whether there are other more efficient electric boilers out there, or are they pretty much the same? I am really struggling to think of any other options tbh, and wondered whether any of you guys who are much more knowledgeable might be able to help. I might freeze next winter if not!!! https://www.electric-heatingcompany.co.uk/electric-boilers/slimjim-electic-boilers/?gclid=CjwKCAiAyPyQBhB6EiwAFUuakt2EDYDZtRTPhzZ3ym_crE4Lz4C9swJ_SAN-VDW_ae9Li3hxhRprCBoCorUQAvD_BwE

We have a Vaillant Ecotec 637 system boiler that is about 7 years old. Was working fine until last night when a leak at the local water main caused Thames Water to switch the water off for the whole street without warning. It was off for about 16h. When they turned the water back on this morning we noticed our boiler wasn't working. We tried turning the tap that feeds it with water, that didn't seem to do much. When we switch it on, the blue LED screen just flashes with the word "loading" coming up on the screen, as it makes an intermittent whirring sound. It doesn't progress beyond this and just keeps doing that until we switch it off. No actual error code, nothing in the trouble shooting area of the manual. Any ideas?

I have not called any professional because there is the Coronavirus "how long is a piece of string" Pandemic. Since January 2021 boiler started leaking water drops after I saw heavy smoke coming from the flue, so I turned boiler off and took the bottom cover off to collect the drops. I have put washing up bowl under the boiler to collect the water drops and then each day once or twice I empty it. The boiler is a few years old and so part/s sourcing is a challenge and it probably requires a total boiler replacement. From January 2021 to now I can see corrosion / limescale deposits and some rusty stains on the washing up bowl. I have switched from gas central heating to electric radiators. To bathe I heat water pot and use bucket. So I'd be grateful if professionals could tell me the steps on how to stop the boiler water drops until the coronavirus situation improves. The system has hot water storage cylinder, cold water tank and is therefore called standard / regular / traditional / conventional boiler. (i) Do I have to go into loft and do something at the cold water tank (large)? (ii) Do I have to drain cold water tank (large), if so is this by siphon pump as using plumbing wrenches might be complicated because it could cause accident for layperson? (iii) Do I have to shut the stopcock function in the cold water tank (large) - is there anything in the market to do it cleanly and for long time rather than using timber and string? (iv) Do I have to insert a stopper / bung in the water outlet - how can I make sure that water flow does not shove-out the stopper / bung after a few days or weeks? (v) Do I have an easier method - is there some pipe above the boiler that has a valve which can be switch off the water flow using a screw driver? (vi) Do I have to do other stuff for doubly ensuring water drops whichmethod is used remains shut? (vii) Do all registered plumbers / gas engineers have to carry gas masks by their regulation bodies, if eventually a professional has to be called? Thank you.

Hi everyone, I'm currently having an extension built onto my house and due to the works ongoing and the fact that we are living in the house for the duration, the boiler had to be moved from the kitchen. There weren't any other realistic options other than to put it into the loft. I've read that there are regulations surrounding boilers installed in lofts - adequate loft access and boarding to allow for servicing etc but I was wondering if someone could tell me if these regulations are required prior to sign off or just a guidance. The builder has used his own gas safe plumbers to do the work and tells me that he'll be able to sign off the work. He said that only a 'fussy' plumber would refuse to service it as it is. If it's a case that boarding is a non negotiable requirement then I'll insist on it. He's certainly charged me enough for the work - approx £2.5k which seems extremely high to me. Please see the attached photo. Any advice on the regulations would be great. Thanks, Dave

Bit of background.... we are just completing the structure of our single story extension to our two bedroom, two bathroom (one shower, one bath/shower) house. This will add an extra bedroom and extra shower. We are on LPG and currently have a Glow-worm 30cxi combi boiler, which is in good working order and meets our needs more or less. We will be relocating the boiler into the ground floor extension as part of this project. One of the things we dislike about our current setup is that every time you turn on a hot tap, even for a short period, the boiler fires up. My impression (and I'm sure I have read this somewhere) is that firing up the boiler often and for short periods is inefficient and costly in fuel. We are on LPG so fuel is expensive. One thing we do like about our current combi is that we don't run out of water in the tank. Although the existing combi has been well maintained I have been considering our options. One option is replacing the boiler with a system boiler and tank. Tight for space, but possible. Another option I have also been looking at is to replace the combi with a storage combi eg Glow-worm Energy 35 Store combi. My hope is that the HW tank in the storage in the combi will stop the constant start/stop of our existing setup, is that true? Any thoughts and advice welcome.

Still trying to chose CH and DHW within all the constraints of my conversion and conservation area. Builder is recommending I have wet UFH to future proof. Has anyone got any experience of the Sime Murrelle Revolution 30 gas (it would have to be LP) and a small heat pump (which confusingly doesn't need to have an external box) so is recommended by the energy saving trust. I'm doing this to get through BC now with adequate heat. I want to have future options so think I need a thermal store to allow for possible solar thermal, may be woodburner and back boiler, GSHP if they become cheaper, or compost heat is I become a hippy. Does such a thing exist? `I've read you have to spec in advance. Am I correct?

I seem to have what must be a common problem when using underfloor heating with a boiler however I haven’t managed to find a standard solution online. The boiler cycles at a high frequency due to the difference in boiler power compared to what the underfloor heating manifold will accept.Setup (underfloor heating recently added by local plumber) – see image below Worcester Greenstar Highflow 440CDI combi boiler (Central heating power of ~29kW down to ~7.6kW) Radiators upstairs with separate thermostat and actuated valve on the CH flow. Underfloor heating downstairs with separate thermostat and actuated valve on the CH flow. Manifold including recirculation pump and mixer valve to maintain the inlet manifold temperature at ~40C. " class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="" data-url="http://<a href="https://ibb.co/0DLwm3M"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/tm6dQ5s/UFH-current.jpg" alt="UFH-current" border="0"></a>" />IssueThe Combi boiler cannot modulate low enough when running the underfloor heating on it’s own therefore it cycles frequently on and off. At a high level, The thermostatic valve on the underfloor heating manifold gets close to the required temperature and throttles flow from the boiler. Boiler flow then bypasses the manifold through the pressure relief circuit and causes the boiler flame to turn off. The flow temperature drops The thermostatic valve on the underfloor heating manifold then starts to open because it’s not getting heat, pulling in cool flow and opening more and more. The boiler restarts when it’s anti cycling timer or temperature limits have been reached and quickly exceeds the underfloor heating thermostatic control valve temperature so the process restarts. If the anti cycle timer is put to it’s minimum of 1 minute, the boiler will run for 1 minute and turn off for one minute (the run time will further reduce when the underfloor heating gets up to temperature). At this frequency the flow temperature remains above the temperature setting of the underfloor heating thermostatic valve so the underfloor is happy.I assume that this boiler operation isn’t efficient and I doubt it’s doing the boiler any favours?When the radiators are operated concurrently with the underfloor heating the CH flow temperature remain stable and the system works nicely.Variables currently available in the system Boiler cycle time or temperature limit, currently 1 minute – If this is increased above 1 minute the underfloor manifold pulls in low temperature water as it cycles and therefore takes a long time to heat up. CH flow temperature, currently 60C – If this is increased it takes a little longer for the boiler to achieve the temperature however an increase of 10C only added 25s to the cycle time (by the time the high temperatures are achieved the boiler is mostly short circuiting around the bypass). Boiler pump speed, currently set to three – Assume a reduction would result in higher temperatures (lower flowrate with the same burner rate?) may also impact on the boiler/radiator operation? Boiler pump operation modes – Don’t know enough Underfloor heating pump speed, currently set to three – Don’t think this will have a significant affect. Underfloor heating thermostatic valve, currently 40C – Increasing this temperature risks overheating the engineered wood flooring. Next steps – help please! Is it a problem to leave the boiler cycling so frequently (1 min on then 1 min off)? Can any of the existing settings be adjusted to help? If current operation is a problem the only significant improvement I can think of is to add thermal mass between the boiler and underfloor heating manifold as follows (see image), any tips on these or is there a better alternative? a. Add pressurised tank (are these referred to as heat banks/or thermal stores?) upstream of the underfloor heating bypass loop. b. Draw the underfloor heating flow through the heat store in the boiler. This is the wild card option and I don’t like it because a connection would need to be made within the boiler (although it is accessible) and there may be an unforeseen impact on the hot water supply. I’ve mentioned it because it wouldn’t require another tank to locate, continually heat or pay for! " class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="" data-url="http://<a href="https://ibb.co/bLpkNgq"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/6b6kDRV/UFH-options.jpg" alt="UFH-options" border="0"></a>" />

This story seems to come up every so often, regarding people with electric boilers and massive electricity bills. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-7966625/The-eco-boilers-cost-5K-year-green-energy-deal-gone-wrong.html It allows the Daily Mail to pander to their older readers who believe everything new is bad. Reading this story though, I couldn't help but wonder did Falkirk Council deliberately install boilers that would be very expensive to run as I suspect installing electric boilers was a lot cheaper for them than installing gas boilers and the running costs weren't their problem. It is now exacerbated by people being locked into some very expensive electricity pricing, but anyone who knows the price of electricity versus gas knows that this would create a massive increase in heating costs. The story keeps calling them eco boilers. In no way should an electric combi be called an eco boiler, clearly people have no idea of the difference between these and ASHPs. The DM then have a further story today about banning every new home being connected to the gas grid, that ASHPs will cost £10k to fit and that they won't work in older poorly insulated houses. Assuming that gas boilers are eventually banned, then over time they can be replaced with ASHPs, however, I was thinking is this as simple as it seems? Even relatively modern houses will have heating systems designed to use 75C hot water from a gas boiler. Is the replacement of boilers as simple as it seems?

Grateful for advice on the following. I'm doing a self build in the Stirling area. Its a five bed property (180m2 in total) with ufh downstairs (120m2) including three bedrooms downstairs and two bedrooms upstairs with rads. One bathroom and three en-suites in total. I was hoping for some advice on boiler and UVC sizing? We will be required to install PVs so I'm also wondering what issues to consider in terms of integrating it with the heating system/hot water? Looking for the most cost effective option. I did consider ASHP but have decided to opt for LPG and PVs. Any pointers much appreciated.

Hi everyone. New to the group and was hoping for some advise. I have a JG underfloor heating system installed under my kitchen and through to a downstairs toilet where the pump and manifold are fitted. In the loft above the toilet run the 25mm flow and return direct from the boiler. Can I tee into these to supply the ufh? I have a cable run in from this (ufh thermostat)to the controller in the airing cupboard which I was hoping to link across the heating switch?? Sorry if this is vague or my terminology is not very good. Any advise appreciated. Thanks in advance

I was just lloking into the different systems available for heating/Hot water. Some Great systems are used by the members on here and I am tempted to use a Genvex Combi like @PeterStarck as it seems amazing logical to combine it all with the MVHR. However, i just found this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyQRTg7Gpw8 It seems an incredible good system, even though not including the MVHR , but still a very good, space saving method which seems easy to use/install. Website is in Norge https://www.polarenergi.com so anybody wanting a look might need to look at their NZ distributor as I couldn t find UK or even US website http://polarenergi.co.nz Anybody on here ever looked into this? Is it a good system, or not really worth the trouble ordering from Norway as similar exists in the uk(which ones>? )

My builders plumber is recommending a WB Greenstar 30i as a new boiler to replace my (very old but very reliable) Potterton Prima 50F. In terms of output the WB is about twice that of the Potterton (30kw compared to 15) so presumably should easily cope with the existing upstairs rads (4 beds, 2 baths & landing) and the new UFH we're installing downstairs (around 110m2, approx 7kw total output). I notice its a system boiler with built in pump so presumably my existing circulation pump will be redundant. Any advice on this boiler or things to look out for? Thanks

Of getting someone to commision a boiler/ufh system when it is already installed but not commissioned or pressure tested. So much for having plumbers I can rely on. They installed the boiler and ufh control last week. Everything was supposed to be finished by last Friday but unfortunately it wasn't. They left at 8pm last Friday with promises to come back today (Thursday) to complete. Couldn't get before then because of other promised work. Message at lunchtime today to say that they couldn't make it but 'should' be able to come next Thursday or Friday. The week after next, one is going away for the week (and the van is his). Absolutely fed up with this now. I should have been able to move in next week.

I have a feeling I'm being taken for a ride. The chap we've used for around 15 years or so to service our boiler retired a year or so ago, and now the house is up for sale I've been advised that I need to provide evidence of an up-to-date service, which is fair enough. I've witnessed every service on this boiler, and on average it's taken under an hour, and has essentially been a visual inspection inside the boiler, a flue gas check, gas pressure check and a quick test to make sure the controls are working. If asked the chap would also have checked and cleaned the Magnaclean and topped up the inhibitor, but I usually do that every year anyway, so that's never been included. I can't remember what we used to pay, but I'm pretty sure it was well under £100. I asked around last week to try and find someone to come out and do a service and check, and those that have come back so far are looking for well North of £200. I reckon this is OTT, but maybe I've just been getting a good deal from the chap I've been using for years. The boiler in question is a wall mounted and easy to access Vaillant EcoTec Plus 831, with just a single wired programmable thermostat. Everything is easy to access, and nothing needs to be moved to get at either the boiler or the Magnaclean, which is mounted on the wall next to it. Am I just out of touch with boiler servicing costs?

Needing to focus on my next project after my UFH fiasco and being in a holiday rental place where the DHW is very hit and miss reminds me that I need to get some specs laid down before I start ordering stuff! Having read so much over the past couple of years, I feel a lot more informed but also a bit bamboozled at the same time. UVC or TS, buffer tanks, what size..... So my main questions (so far): 1) what type of gas boiler to go for? 2) Thermal store or UVC? 3) Buffer tank needed? My setup will be: 4kw solar PV Mains gas 2 UFH manifolds (upstairs and groundfloor - so I can choose the flow temps accordingly to get the maximum comfort levels) Room stats in all areas 2 Bathrooms (2 showers, 2 baths) MHVR Although not going to be a passivhaus, I’m hopeful it'll be a bloody whole let better than your standard newbuild: 2 SIP extensions 300mm EPS floor insulation 3G windows/doors 100mm EWI on existing house DHW requirement: 2 adults and two soon to be teenagers (so they will hardly wash reducing the DHW figures a bit) 2 morning showers 2 evening baths Hot water for washing up (though may get a boiler-type tap for most hot water needs in the kitchen) Occupancy: Wife and kids out and I although I work from home, my office will be one of the sheds out the back so main house can either be set to off or very low temps during the day. UFH demands: Groundfloor: Water volume: 129L; Estimated loading: 9.45Kw Upstairs: Water volume: 25L; Estimated loading: 2.03Kw BOILER QUESTION: Before I start getting plumbers out to fit a boiler system, I’d like to get people’s advice on whether to go for system or combi. Combi = don’t need a water storage cylinder = no need for cistern in loft = combi boilers don’t supply enough hot water = better to use a separate cylinder for the hot water supply. = combi boilers can be quite noisy. System = Store hot water in a cylinder, so they can feed several outlets at once at mains pressure. = no need for a cistern in the loft and the expansion vessel is built in. = Flow rates will be high as water is delivered at mains pressure, and hot water is instantaneous. I'm thinking to go for a system boiler at this stage (easier/quicker install) and then to use excess PV with the cylinder. THERMAL STORE OR UVC? My thoughts so far are to have a 300L UVC fed partly by the solar PV during the day (using an Immersun type of device) with maybe E10/E7 at night and then also the gas boiler. I would end up with two circuits – one for DHW and one for UFH. The boiler would kick in for the UFH when the UVC doesn’t require heat. BUFFER TANK? I'm also thinking that if I go for a UVC rather than thermal store (from what I have read on here) I would need a buffer store seeing I will have UFH. But I've read that if I opt for a TS, that can be my buffer tank also. So perhaps I should go for a TS rather than a UVC? Confused.... Hoping someone (AKA: @Nickfromwales etc) is able to assist..... Thanks, OB

Hi, I'm not entirely sure if this post belongs here but there are several components that I think I should consider as part of one solution: Heating and Hot Water. You may be familiar with my project from the introductions forum but I'll present you with my circumstances in any case. I currently have a Combi Boiler heating our traditionally constructed 2700sq.ft bungalow and providing hot water to 2 showers (right now we use 14000 kWh Electricity and 48907 kWh Gas per annum!). We will be updating the current building with thicker loft insulation and better windows, but will still use rads to heat this portion of the house when we complete the renovation. The new part of the house will add around 6000sq.ft and will be built to much better u values using ICF walls and SIPS roof. Here's where I'm confused, I don't know what the best system will be that can provide loads of hot water (7 showers), heat UFH in the new part and also heat the rads in the old part. I'm further confused by mhrv, I've heard this is a necessity in ICF homes, but then heard the speaker at the homebuilding show at NEC state that they're pointless for homes over a certain size. I'm open to installing an ASHP but I'm not sure whether it's necessary or even beneficial when I have the option of mains gas. Lastly, I've a good size roof pointing SE without any shading to speak of so we could potentially generate a considerable amount electricity, but I would have to consider the regulations of having a system over 4kWh and the costs associated, also factoring potential battery storage over and above Sunamp if this too makes sense to use. I don't have a clue where the feed in tariff comes in to all this! There will also be a detached annexe of around 800sq.ft and we will most likely go with UFH and 1 shower, I'm not sure how this should be incorporated in to the overall scheme or whether I should treat it separate. I know its probably a good idea to speak with an energy solutions firm and will most likely speak with Stratford Energy Solutions who have been recommended to me, however, I also know that they may have commercial interests that don't take in to account all of the factors we self builders consider.

Just on the off chance, does anyone know what the diameter of the fire rope for the Fire Door is? I have the manual, (it doesn't say what the diameter is) I have rung the supplier; the lass had no idea what the diameter is. So, as usual, I end up on BH asking everyone else. Phhh....

@Nickfromwales Telford seem a good bet for supplying my UVC. As per other post on UFH with rads but I will now site the tank in the cellar and have an external boiler (fluing from the cellar is a pig and looks expensive). So presume new system boiler and UVC or TS. Can't invest in solar now, or air-source hp as no funds left. See system below I got quoted from Greensquare. Should I not have a buffer if going uvc?

Having over spent on unexpected items we've had to put our plans for a garage to a halt. We planned to put the boiler in garage but without the garage where to we locate the boiler, inside or outside? Ufh downstairs and rads upstairs. Any thoughts would be appreciated