Declan52 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 Think if your going to get it built for your budget your going to have to make some hard decisions. The most obvious is the size. You could easily take 500mm of the length and breadth and not cause much heart ache. Two out door seating areas is for your budget 1 too many and maybe even 2. Your in the same position that the vast majority of us have all been. Every one has all these plans drew out with the wish list and then once you start to price it up you soon realise the budget dictates your final look. If you remove the dining room and extend the kitchen so the back wall is straight and extend the front another 500mm-1000mm this will let you get the dining table in between your kitchen and seating area. This having made the back wall straight will make the roof easier to do. I know it seems a pretty drastic step chopping a section of the house of but your going to have to weigh up do you want a formal dining room or do you want the out door seating area or the nice Windows at the front. The amount of glazing at the front will certainly cost plenty so you might have to either redo the size and shape or make other savings else where that allow you to have that very very nice frontage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedreamer Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 From reviewing the plans there seems to be a number of different final weather skins. This improves the appearance of the house but makes things more complicated and more costly. The same applies to corners and bit's that stick out, this pretty much added a cost right from the start of digging a foundation trench to the final decorating. I was on a limited budget so decided to keep the design as a simple as possible but areas where cladding met render, different roof materials etc have been the areas that caused me the most stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 Pretty house but agree that the design is quite complicated. My eye was drawn to the first floor terrace above the dining room, I'd be sceptical that you'll ever use it and it will be expensive to have a flat roof that you can walk on plus the safety glazing to the perimeter - that will be thousands in its own right. Our architect specced balconies to the rear of our house for the master and guest bedroom. They look great, break up the back wall. Also cost a small fortune, complicated the frame design and we never use them. Would have rather had the additional space in the bedroom but there you go... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 25 minutes ago, JSHarris said: TBH, the solar thermal would have been a very expensive way to heat water, far, far better to go for PV, as at least you can use all the energy generated even when your hot water has been heated up. PV is far better value than solar thermal, in terms of the amount of usable energy you get for your investment, and it's easy enough to add PV later. +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs S Posted May 26, 2019 Author Share Posted May 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Declan52 said: Think if your going to get it built for your budget your going to have to make some hard decisions. The most obvious is the size. You could easily take 500mm of the length and breadth and not cause much heart ache. Two out door seating areas is for your budget 1 too many and maybe even 2. Your in the same position that the vast majority of us have all been. Every one has all these plans drew out with the wish list and then once you start to price it up you soon realise the budget dictates your final look. If you remove the dining room and extend the kitchen so the back wall is straight and extend the front another 500mm-1000mm this will let you get the dining table in between your kitchen and seating area. This having made the back wall straight will make the roof easier to do. I know it seems a pretty drastic step chopping a section of the house of but your going to have to weigh up do you want a formal dining room or do you want the out door seating area or the nice Windows at the front. The amount of glazing at the front will certainly cost plenty so you might have to either redo the size and shape or make other savings else where that allow you to have that very very nice frontage. I understand where you are coming from, but we’ve already taken away some previous rooms. We need the dining room as a future bedroom, as I have health issues, hence why we also have an accessible shower room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 I wouldn't rule out solar thermal esp with RHI. In scotland you can get a loan from government to cover ST heat pumps etc which can be repaid by the RHI payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs S Posted May 26, 2019 Author Share Posted May 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Thedreamer said: From reviewing the plans there seems to be a number of different final weather skins. This improves the appearance of the house but makes things more complicated and more costly. The same applies to corners and bit's that stick out, this pretty much added a cost right from the start of digging a foundation trench to the final decorating. I was on a limited budget so decided to keep the design as a simple as possible but areas where cladding met render, different roof materials etc have been the areas that caused me the most stress. Our external coverings have been dictated by local planning. We have to stay in keeping with the other houses in the area. We are trying to see if we can limit the more expensive finishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs S Posted May 26, 2019 Author Share Posted May 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Alexphd1 said: I wouldn't rule out solar thermal esp with RHI. In scotland you can get a loan from government to cover ST heat pumps etc which can be repaid by the RHI payments. Thanks, the solar thermal was in addition to our ASHP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs S Posted May 26, 2019 Author Share Posted May 26, 2019 4 hours ago, ProDave said: I have had a look at your plans. My overriding first impression is a complicated house to build. That is not what you want when you are trying to build it cheap. Does the plot size and shape dictate the shape? or do you have scope to simplify it? The plot has dictated the house shape, it’s triangular, narrow at entrance & the back. We also didn’t want the standard box shape house. It faces the coast, so we wanted to make the most of the views. We don't think it’s that complicated looking at it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 I would be inclined to leave off the flat roofed dining room. That will save a lot off the budget, but could be built as an extension later on when your budget has recovered from the main build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 You could build the garage as part of the heated space, with insulated walls and floors, and if needed then it's only a garage door that needs swapped for a set of sliders to give you another room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) . Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs S Posted May 27, 2019 Author Share Posted May 27, 2019 10 hours ago, the_r_sole said: Really? You've got 4/5 different finishes I think it would be an easy sell to the planners to have a reduced palette of materials like most houses At present we have 4, but one will be removed if we change the roof type, which will leave us with the 3 finishes that we MUST have as per our planning regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) . Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mrs S said: At present we have 4, but one will be removed if we change the roof type, which will leave us with the 3 finishes that we MUST have as per our planning regs. Planning consent conditions can always be challenged, though, especially if they are not supported by any written planning policy. Planners are only allowed to apply conditions that are supported by a written policy, and are required to state the policy that they've applied. Often it seems that they try it on and impose conditions that aren't actually written into any policy at all. It would seem very improbable that there would be any planning policy that stipulated the number and type of external finishes. Edited May 27, 2019 by JSHarris Cross-posted with the reply above 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 16 hours ago, Bitpipe said: Pretty house but agree that the design is quite complicated. My eye was drawn to the first floor terrace above the dining room, I'd be sceptical that you'll ever use it and it will be expensive to have a flat roof that you can walk on plus the safety glazing to the perimeter - that will be thousands in its own right. Our architect specced balconies to the rear of our house for the master and guest bedroom. They look great, break up the back wall. Also cost a small fortune, complicated the frame design and we never use them. Would have rather had the additional space in the bedroom but there you go... Literally word for word what I'd say about our experience with balconies. They add positively to the look of the house at the back, but were very expensive, introduced the only cold bridges in our entire design, and will never be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapstar Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 On 25/05/2019 at 18:53, Mrs S said: We are building just south of Stonehaven. You aren’t building at Brownhills by any chance? My husband is in Aberdeen from tomorrow for a few days on business, I will pass on your message as I’m sure he would love to talk to you. Thank you ? Hello @Mrs S We seem to be in a very familiar situation and also building around that area. Recently received a couple of quotes from local builders for them to do the entire build, we were taken back at how the cost is approx 50-60k over what we anticipated, not quite 150k but still enough to stop the dream of building once again! Our house is approx 290 m2 which includes an attached garage (42m2), I felt the garage would of been priced at a lower cost per m2 than to the rest of the house given it was blockwork construction opposed to TF for the house. The quotes we have received have been rather vague in my opinion, we weren't sure of the normal procedure of estimating a house build but we anticipated it would be broken down into the various stages - we have only received the total cost price with a list of certain basic inclusions in the price. I feel asking for a price breakdown of all the stages would annoy the builders!!? We still have another couple of smaller builders pricing the job for us but I feel the outcome is going to be the same unfortunately. On 25/05/2019 at 12:33, ultramods said: Where about in NE are you building? As others have said posting your plans would really help people assist you. We are building in newmachar a 325 sqm two storey house for around 350k (excluding land cost) to a high spec. You and your husband are welcome to visit our build if you like to see the spec etc. I am project managing the built and have done a small amount of the work. We have 1 company doing Joinery, roofing and rendering. 2nd company doing all groundworks, foundations, block work etc. 3rd company doing electrics. 4th company doing electrics. 5th company doing plastering and decorating. And two companies doing stair and baulastrade. I have found that the build in general has needed little supervision from me. However that's because the plans were detailed including the size and type and position of all sanitryware, showers, kitchen units, worktops, sinks etc. @ultramods Would be interesting to know how you approached each company and divided up the workload. My main worry sub contracting is missing out an important detail which would prevent the other trades from getting on with their part of the job... You must have to be so detailed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recoveringbuilder Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 I would be wanting a breakdown on the different stages and costs, the builders we employed on a labour only basis gave us a breakdown on different stages; eg foundations, drains Blockwork , render, roofing joinery, plasterboard plastering and so on this way we paid them each stage as it was completed otherwise how would you know what you were paying them / for what? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Christine Walker said: we paid them each stage as it was completed otherwise how would you know what you were paying them / for what? And unfortunately it's not unknown for builders to walk away without finishing a job leaving you with not enough money to finish it. That's one of the benefits of employing separate trades in my view as you are containing the scope of the work that each trade is contracted for and only putting a specific amount of money at risk with each job. It may take more organising on your part and you will need to know where one trade ends and the other picks up but there would be plenty of help on here with that. It might all just take a bit longer to build but in the time, cost, quality triangle if cost is the most important thing to you then one of the others needs to give and that may be time plus some tweaking to the spec because no end of time will be able to deliver to a competely unrealistic budget (I'm not saying the OP's is). And from experience watch out for the words 'extras', 'suggestions' etc. and get a quote there and then for the additional work. Some trades seem to quote low to get the job and then start piling on the additional costs from the get go. We realised that pretty early on at the groundworks stage thankfully as every time the builder 'suggested' something in reality he was counting that as an 'extra' and adding on a fee that was way more than we would have agreed to pay. Cost us quite a bit more in the end unfortunately but at least we found out early. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapstar Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Makes complete sense in that having separate trades would allow you to keep track of costs along the way without ending up with a load of 'extra' costs at the end. As I said before we are just hesitant at taking this route as time is really something we do not have to be at hand every day. We do have more than enough experience with ground works (landscaping, drainage etc) having our own machinery but in the grand scheme of things I dont feel our 'skills' will reduce costs in a substantial way. If i remember correctly did someone have a spreadsheet on the breakdown of costs/stages on here? Would be great to have a simple breakdown of each stage to allow us to determine what trades are needed and when... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs S Posted May 27, 2019 Author Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 hours ago, soapstar said: Hello @Mrs S We seem to be in a very familiar situation and also building around that area. Recently received a couple of quotes from local builders for them to do the entire build, we were taken back at how the cost is approx 50-60k over what we anticipated, not quite 150k but still enough to stop the dream of building once again! Our house is approx 290 m2 which includes an attached garage (42m2), I felt the garage would of been priced at a lower cost per m2 than to the rest of the house given it was blockwork construction opposed to TF for the house. The quotes we have received have been rather vague in my opinion, we weren't sure of the normal procedure of estimating a house build but we anticipated it would be broken down into the various stages - we have only received the total cost price with a list of certain basic inclusions in the price. I feel asking for a price breakdown of all the stages would annoy the builders!!? We still have another couple of smaller builders pricing the job for us but I feel the outcome is going to be the same unfortunately. @ultramods Would be interesting to know how you approached each company and divided up the workload. My main worry sub contracting is missing out an important detail which would prevent the other trades from getting on with their part of the job... You must have to be so detailed? Hi @soapstar, we didn’t receive detailed quotes from either builder, which perturbed me ever so slightly, as I like to know what I’m paying for. Having previously done some homework with our costings, we know that we are being overcharged for some of the products ie the sewage treatment plant is £3k more than if we purchase it ourselves! After meeting with @ultramods, my husband and I have decided to go down the sub contractor route. I will PM the build, along with my husband when he is at home, this will hopefully allow us to build a house within our budget without having to sacrifice some of the design features. Good luck with your build ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 hours ago, soapstar said: Makes complete sense in that having separate trades would allow you to keep track of costs along the way without ending up with a load of 'extra' costs at the end. As I said before we are just hesitant at taking this route as time is really something we do not have to be at hand every day. We do have more than enough experience with ground works (landscaping, drainage etc) having our own machinery but in the grand scheme of things I dont feel our 'skills' will reduce costs in a substantial way. If i remember correctly did someone have a spreadsheet on the breakdown of costs/stages on here? Would be great to have a simple breakdown of each stage to allow us to determine what trades are needed and when... Have you a copy of the Home Builders Bible? Pretty much does what you ask, using a model house to base the numbers around. You can also get hold of SPONs to price individual elements. However, may be worth getting a QS to independently draw up a costings worksheet from your plans - we did this (£1500 plus a PHPP analysis) and it was money well spent as I was able to target each individual element and set my self the goal of beating the price. Regarding getting sub trades vs a single contractor, not that complicated really. You just need to break the job into logical stages by trade and then go get quotes to compare. On our build we had the following trades/contractors in the following order (quite a few trades overlapped at end) - Electrician (site prep for relocation of existing power, supply to caravan and container/site office) - Groundworks (demolition, site prep, basement & services) - Scaffolding (design & erect, 12 week hire) - Timber frame (design, supply, erection & return to insulate & finish airtightness detail after doors & windows fitted). - Windows & doors (supply & fit contract) - Roofer (supply & fit, also fitted the velux that I purchased directly) - Render contractor (supply & fit) - Guttering contractor (soffit, fascia, parapets, guttering & downpipes) - Front door (supply & fit) - Electrical first fix - Plumbing first fix - Joiner (boxing in, door frames, pocket door preparation etc) - Plasterer (supply & fit board & skim coat) - Decorators (supply & paint) - Tiling (I supplied) - Plumbing second fix - Flooring install (supply & fit) - Joiner (hang doors, cills, skirting and architrave) - Resin flooring - Kitchen (supply & fit) We then moved in, and about a year later started - Landscaping (laying patio, prepping for driveway and gates, wall building etc.) - Resin driveway and gates were by separate specialist contractors. - Internal & external glass balustrade & balconies (Supply & Fit) - Electrician still coming and going to finish driveway lights, external power etc. As you can see it was mostly supply and fit (that way everything is VAT free). We supplied some of the groundworks material (EPS & GRP light-wells), Velux windows, MVHR I fit), first & second fix timber, internal doors & ironmongery, bathroom fittings (Megabad), bath, sinks, tiles, wood flooring and all the landscaping materials. I'm sure I've forgotten something here but you get the gist. Key to my success was getting a fully insulated airtight timber frame that included felted roof, floor decks and all internal stud walls as this took away any concerns about the structural elements being in multiple hands. We shared the TF design with the SE doing the basement spec - that was my main concern but both elements came together without a hitch. Main frustration was trades getting delayed on other jobs and throwing out your schedule, but you just need to roll with it. It also gets a bit busy near then end with plasterers, joiners, painters, tilers, plumbers and sparks all trying to get done! 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 A few points: The flat roof above the dining has not been designed with a fall and one is required. This may mean a step up to the balcony area from the hall. Price the terrace separately as it is likely to be very expensive once balustrade and paving is added. There is lots of East facing glazing to bed 1 so the sun will be there first thing (although in Scotland this is not a given). Curtains will be very hard to achieve and you may well get overheated in the morning. Unless you have mountains looking up I would go for normal windows or at least price them in comparison. Windows are much costlier than walls and far worse at insulating. Get the facing materials priced for comparison. I imagine the stone is fairly pricey so you could reduce it where the external fan units are. There seems to be some metal cladding, which can also be expensive. Look at any other local materials and get prices for these too. As per earlier, you could finish the roof in concrete tiles and save a fortune. Make the downstairs shower wheelchair accessible and fit the walls out for future grab rails, seat etc. Consider making it a wet room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassanclan Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 The design is far too complicated to be brought in on a £1000/sqm budget. The architect has not understood your financial constraints at the start. With tweaks you might get a similar looking house at a lower cost, but would mean going back to planning etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedreamer Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 If going back to the planners it might be worth testing the waters to see what can be achieved as a non material variation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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