SunAmp : Snog, Marry, Avoid?

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

UVC, larger than you think you need and use ASHP to heat it.

That is a tricky one.

You can design it to be heated by the HP to say 45°C and have a capacity that will meet your normal every days needs.

Then, if you need more, just use an inbuilt resistance immersion heater to raise the temperature up to 65°.

Think that is equivalent to increasing the capacity by 2.3 times (depends on what you consider to be an acceptable minimum temperature, I chose 30°C).

[NSS]

12 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

That is a tricky one.

You can design it to be heated by the HP to say 45°C and have a capacity that will meet your normal every days needs.

Then, if you need more, just use an inbuilt resistance immersion heater to raise the temperature up to 65°.

Think that is equivalent to increasing the capacity by 2.3 times (depends on what you consider to be an acceptable minimum temperature, I chose 30°C).

 

Our ASHP heats the 300L cylinder to 45C (except every Monday when it does a Legionnaires cycle to 65C) but the power diverter sends any excess PV generation to the immersion. Suffice to say we've never run low on hot water - not even back in the good old days when friends and family could come and stay with us!

Edited June 27, 2020 by NSS

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, NSS said:

Our ASHP heats the cylinder to 45C (except every Monday when it does a Legionnaires cycle to 65C) but the power diverter sends any excess PV generation to the immersion. Suffice to say we've never run low on hot water - not even back in the good old days when friends and family could come and stay with us!

Is that because the system is over specified.

I could probably get away with 50 litres of water at 45°C.

But my cylinder is 200 lt.

I don't run out.

[NSS]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

Is that because the system is over specified.

I could probably get away with 50 litres of water at 45°C.

But my cylinder is 200 lt.

I don't run out.

Possibly when it's just the two of us here, but I'm not overly bothered as most of the charging is done during daytime hours when the ASHP is often being powered by PV.

[SteamyTea]

Just now, NSS said:

Possibly when it's just the two of us here, but I'm not overly bothered as most of the charging is done during daytime hours when the ASHP is often being powered by PV.

Same here.

Really comes down to price.

Price is a good equaliser in many ways.

[NSS]

31 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Same here.

Really comes down to price.

Price is a good equaliser in many ways.

 

Had a look back to the first page of this thread, and the two previous one's from which it emerged. These questions over SunAmp have been doing the rounds here for over 18 months and still nobody seems confident that they are a reliable, cost-effective and easy to configure/control solution (for most applications at least). Given the level of technical understanding on this forum (compared to the average of Joe Public), imho it seems hard to envisage how SunAmp can hope to be a mainstream solution in its current format - unless of course it's Joe Public's lack of knowledge/understanding that makes them attractive customers.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by NSS

[PeterW]

31 minutes ago, NSS said:

it seems hard to envisage how SunAmp can hope to be a mainstream solution in its current format - unless of course it's Joe Public's lack of knowledge/understanding that makes them attractive customers.

 

Look at who they have just partnered with though ...! An organisation that doesn’t print price lists and has been regularly had by the ASA for misleading claims on previous heating products .... 

[Triassic]

1 hour ago, Russdl said:

so I sourced my own, direct from Sunamp.

I went direct to Sunamp and they palmed me off to Midsummer? Did you get a good goal going direct? In my case I’ve lost a discount I’d previously been given by Sunamp.

[Triassic]

40 minutes ago, NSS said:

seems hard to envisage how SunAmp can hope to be a mainstream solution in its current format

I agree, I’d got the impression SA were trying to move towards becoming mainstream, that appears to have changed and rheyre moving in the opposite direction, highly technical, specialist install, costly to buy.

[PeterW]

6 minutes ago, Triassic said:

I agree, I’d got the impression SA were trying to move towards becoming mainstream, that appears to have changed and rheyre moving in the opposite direction, highly technical, specialist install, costly to buy.

Which goes back to the argument about if you’re building anything but a specialist and highly insulated and airtight low energy house, it’s a niche product. 
 

Just look at the PCM38/45 fiasco and them pulling products from the market, and also having loads of original units having to be refitted - basically they as a manufacturer have used their customers as unwitting beta testers..! 

[Russdl]

17 minutes ago, Triassic said:

I went direct to Sunamp and they palmed me off to Midsummer? Did you get a good goal going direct? In my case I’ve lost a discount I’d previously been given by Sunamp.

 

Sunamp had sympathy with my situation and were well aware of the problems surrounding the distributor I was dealing with. The offer to sell to me direct came from Andrew Bissell and only stood for a week or two. If you want any more specific detail you’ll have to PM as I was asked not to ‘shout it from the rooftops’. 

[Dan F]

If they had a better controller and cost less then I would revisit Sunamp for sure.  They still beat UVC on size, heat-loss and load-shifting, if any/all of these are important to you.

[Marco Van Bowden]

2 hours ago, Russdl said:

So, the fact that I’ve now got a Sunamp I guess puts me in the ‘marry’ camp (and hopefully one day the ‘merry’ camp) but it’s not up and running yet. 

 

Well, I'm keen to know how you get on buddy.  Keep me posted.  PM on the way ?

[NSS]

45 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Look at who they have just partnered with though ...! An organisation that doesn’t print price lists and has been regularly had by the ASA for misleading claims on previous heating products .... 

 

You'll no doubt recall @Jeremy Harris(hope he's okay btw?) describing multifoil insulation (and/or claims about its performance) as 'snake oil'. I wonder is there a new candidate for the description ?

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, NSS said:

You'll no doubt recall @Jeremy Harris(hope he's okay btw?) describing multifoil insulation (and/or claims about its performance) as 'snake oil'. I wonder is there a new candidate for the description 

The technology behind the phase change and the vacuum insulation is well understood and documented.

Just the control system and sales/after sales that is iffy.

 

21 minutes ago, Russdl said:

If you want any more specific detail you’ll have to PM as I was asked not to ‘shout it from the rooftops’. 

That is always a worrying sign, unless there is a court case pending.

And I would ask for 'a treat' to stop me talking.

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

Really comes down to price.

 

I have heard and read a few things, but without a verifying first hand, it is still in the realms of substantial rumours at the moment, or it just ends up as a 'Me To' campaign. 

[Stones]

33 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Which goes back to the argument about if you’re building anything but a specialist and highly insulated and airtight low energy house, it’s a niche product. 

 

 

The original Sunamp PV unit was IIRC intended to be used in conjunction with a Combi boiler, allowing households to benefit from PV diversion - one significant market that had been identified was social housing where PV rent-a-roof had been installed, and the thought that to meet fuel poverty targets, their would be an investment in anything which could help reduce tenant bills.  I think it was @DamonHD who originally made us all aware of the product, and it just so happened to be the ideal solution to the overheating cupboard issue

@Jeremy Harris had.  A couple of other members decided to use the product, and it was certainly something I looked into as well, but I concluded that there was no benefit in me using the product due to my specific requirements.    I went with a straightforward ASHP and UVC system and it suits our needs perfectly.  It's very easy to get swept along in a tide of enthusiasm for a (new) product which has positive attributes, and initially, I was one of those individuals. Stepping back and honestly assessing your individual circumstances and requirements isn't easy sometimes, but probably the best advice I could give.

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, Russdl said:

I was asked not to ‘shout it from the rooftops’.

 

Erm...you just have! ?

[LA3222]

This is such an inconclusive topic that the more I dwell on it the more im thinking that UVC may be a more cost effective solution.

 

I'm thinking of 2 Uniq12s but thats 5 grand pretty much. I need to cost up the ASHP/UVC option really as that may be the nail in SunAmps coffin for me.

[Dreadnaught]

3 minutes ago, LA3222 said:

I need to cost up the ASHP/UVC option

 

I'm interested in this too. Had chosen a Sunamp Uniq12 for my build but am now wavering. Will be interested to hear what you choose.

[LA3222]

16 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said:

 

I'm interested in this too. Had chosen a Sunamp Uniq12 for my build but am now wavering. Will be interested to hear what you choose.

I'm well and truly wavering, 5 grand for a couple of sunamps will hopefully buy me an all singing, all dancing UVC, ASHP and a plumber to install it all - hopefully with some change left over.

[PeterW]

24 minutes ago, LA3222 said:

This is such an inconclusive topic that the more I dwell on it the more im thinking that UVC may be a more cost effective solution.

 

I'm thinking of 2 Uniq12s but thats 5 grand pretty much. I need to cost up the ASHP/UVC option really as that may be the nail in SunAmps coffin for me.

Is that 2 UniQ12 plus direct electric heating ..? Or are you using gas to heat them ..?

 

2x12 is the equivalent of 560 litres of hot water storage. A 8kw Gen6 Samsung ASHP is change from £3k, controller is £600. Telford 500 litre HP ASHP tank is £1430 delivered. That’s £5k all in, and will also do your UFH too. The Gen6 Samsung also can do 56c on the water if you want to use LST rads. 
 

 

[LA3222]

8 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Is that 2 UniQ12 plus direct electric heating ..? Or are you using gas to heat them ..?

 

2x12 is the equivalent of 560 litres of hot water storage. A 8kw Gen6 Samsung ASHP is change from £3k, controller is £600. Telford 500 litre HP ASHP tank is £1430 delivered. That’s £5k all in, and will also do your UFH too. The Gen6 Samsung also can do 56c on the water if you want to use LST rads. 
 

 

I was thinking along the lines of 2 x Uniq12 for my DHW to be charged via off peak electric/solar PV. The heating would have been an ASHP connected to UFH system.

 

All of the niggles with SunAmp are starting to put me off. I was hoping it would all have been ironed out by now but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

I'm now wavering towards UVC setup, but I need to put some research in to all this. Up till now it was a vague plan bubbling away in the background, I'm reaching the point where I need to start going firm on what the plan is going to be. 

 

 

[ProDave]

24 minutes ago, LA3222 said:

I was thinking along the lines of 2 x Uniq12 for my DHW to be charged via off peak electric/solar PV. The heating would have been an ASHP connected to UFH system.

 

All of the niggles with SunAmp are starting to put me off. I was hoping it would all have been ironed out by now but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

I'm now wavering towards UVC setup, but I need to put some research in to all this. Up till now it was a vague plan bubbling away in the background, I'm reaching the point where I need to start going firm on what the plan is going to be. 

 

 

Remember with solar PV there is no feed in tariff any more, so the cost has to be justified on self usage.

 

I find heating the UVC with the ASHP to 48 degrees still leaves a lot of headroom for the solar PV to add more getting up to 75 degrees in the UVC on a good day with PV.  That usually translates into the HP doing less or even nothing the next day to keep the UVC charged.

 

I am not entirely convinced the controller of a sun amp will always allow surplus solar PV in if it senses it is "too full"  A lot depends on your hot water usage.  If like us you are mostly in the "shower in the evening" camp, you might well find the off peak has charged the sun amp and the solar pv goes to waste.  If you are in the "shower in the morning" camp you are more likely to find the sun amp controller will allow surplus PV in after you have all showered.

[NSS]

17 minutes ago, ProDave said:

 

I find heating the UVC with the ASHP to 48 degrees still leaves a lot of headroom for the solar PV to add more getting up to 75 degrees in the UVC on a good day with PV.  That usually translates into the HP doing less or even nothing the next day to keep the UVC charged.

 

 

Likewise ?

[JamesP]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

I find heating the UVC with the ASHP to 48 degrees still leaves a lot of headroom for the solar PV to add more getting up to 75 degrees in the UVC on a good day with PV.  That usually translates into the HP doing less or even nothing the next day to keep the UVC charged.

 

1 hour ago, NSS said:

Likewise ?

Can you clarify for me that I can increase the UVC temp up to 75 degrees when sunny using the PV diverter as at the moment  it switches off by 10am on a sunny day as its reached its temp of 56 degrees set on the Ecodan. The higher tank temp in effect  increases the tank volume by blending with cold?