LED ...How bright and Which Make

[Ed_MK]

We are finishing the plastering on our new build.

so the sparky came in with the shopping list for later ...

 

and i was SHOCKED to find out that i needed 72 ....yes SEVENTY TWO recessed lights!!

In the end i managed to source them, sockets and switches and thought i was looking good

 

oops

 

the bulbs ...(or lamps as they call them now)

 

as usual there is no end of people working here  with layman advice ...but which makes sense??

 

• you got to get big brand names £10 ish, any cheapies off amazon or ebay etc are crap
• you should stick to under 5w as the others get too hot or wont fit in the GU10 hole
• its not the wattage its the width of reflector ...some have a beam like a pencil torch
• dont get warm white (what the wife wants) ,..they are only half the brightness

 

 

sigh

 

 

i love light .....and dont want to end up in a gloomy cave-like room

Edited November 22, 2018 by Ed_MK

[Ferdinand]

@Ed_MKMy advice.

 

You may already have decided on 1 and 2.

 

1 - Take a look at whether you need quite that many, and whether you actually need recessed - I have about 70 in the house, and I consider them an inherited PITA. That is another 70  points on your wiring bill.

2 - Also look at LED panels, which a number here have found as good or better.

3 - Be aware of the width of the light cone ie the angle of the spangle.

4 - Recently I have been using LAP products from Screwfix for GU10s, which have been satisfactory. Have been about £2-3 each. Here are some dimmable 5W ones that may be OK and are available at £20 for 10.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-gu10-led-light-bulb-345lm-5w-10-pack/1402v

5 - Do not buy *too* many spares. With 72 you may only need to replace 1 or 2 a year early-on.

6 - If you do recessed, make sure your holes are deep enough. Some of mine aren't and some of the bulbs do not fit in some of the holes.

 

Ferdinand

 

[Temp]

If we are talking GU10s then I look for bulbs with a wide beam angle and producing  350 Lumens or more. Recently I've actually had reasonable results with Dial brand which I think are BnQ (or is it Homebase?) and quite cheap.

 

Check you have dimmers suitable for LED.

 

Some makes have a phosphor that glows for awhile after being turned off. If the glow persists for more than say an hour you may need to add a capacitor/snubber to some of the fitting as it's due to coupling between live and switched live.

 

[bassanclan]

Or screwfix do non dimmable £50 for 50 bulbs 

[PeterW]

I use the CPC ProElec ones and they work really well and work out about £1 each. You can chose the warmness off  the light too - 2700k being warm white, 6000k being nearly a blue white. 

[ProDave]

For most rooms I fit warm white, but might fit something more white in the kitchen.

 

72 sounds like an awful lot. I have 9 in the kitchen, 4 in the hall, 6 in the utility room.  3 in each bathroom. That gives plenty of light.  Then the other rooms, living room, bedrooms, landing etc will have a single feature light (light fittings yet to be chosen so just a BC pendant and 5W led lamp at the moment)

 

I have always disliked flush downlights, but historically that has been the dislike of putting 300W or more of halogen lamps to light a kitchen.  Only now that LED lamps have become better and cheaper do I find recessed downlights acceptable, but really only still for "work" areas like kitchens.  I still prefer some kind of surface light fitting for bedrooms and living rooms.

 

A quick count, if I put every light in the house on at the same time, it's 117W in total.

[le-cerveau]

I fitted 3 different lighting colours:

• 4000K in the kitchen, laundry and studies (I have two)
• 2700K in bedrooms
• 3000K elsewhere

The 2700K is a gentle soft white whereas the 4000K is quite harsh but better for detail work

Everything is LED, either downlighters, panels or recessed strips.

 

[Ed_MK]

7 hours ago, PeterW said:

I use the CPC ProElec ones and they work really well and work out about £1 each. You can chose the warmness off  the light too - 2700k being warm white, 6000k being nearly a blue white. 

what's the beam angle on those peter from experience ?

[Ed_MK]

5 hours ago, ProDave said:

For most rooms I fit warm white, but might fit something more white in the kitchen.

 

72 sounds like an awful lot. I have 9 in the kitchen, 4 in the hall, 6 in the utility room.  3 in each bathroom. That gives plenty of light.  Then the other rooms, living room, bedrooms, landing etc will have a single feature light (light fittings yet to be chosen so just a BC pendant and 5W led lamp at the moment)

 

I have always disliked flush downlights, but historically that has been the dislike of putting 300W or more of halogen lamps to light a kitchen.  Only now that LED lamps have become better and cheaper do I find recessed downlights acceptable, but really only still for "work" areas like kitchens.  I still prefer some kind of surface light fitting for bedrooms and living rooms.

 

A quick count, if I put every light in the house on at the same time, it's 117W in total.

 

the bulb in my old dear mams living room was a 150 ...eek

[PeterW]

20 minutes ago, Ed_MK said:

what's the beam angle on those peter from experience ?

 

130 or 150 degrees from memory.

[readiescards]

I've tried various different makes and all seem to have bulbs that blow way before the 50,000 hours.  Crompton have been good at sending replacements free of charge for the early blowers.

[Nickfromwales]

17 hours ago, Ed_MK said:

 

the bulb in my old dear mams living room was a 150 ...eek

The good old days. I made a lead lamp up with an ES 250w bulb. Melted the b&q lead light I bought to put it in,

”What’s that smell of burning rubber ?”

[oranjeboom]

3 minutes ago, readiescards said:

I've tried various different makes and all seem to have bulbs that blow way before the 50,000 hours.  Crompton have been good at sending replacements free of charge for the early blowers.

 

That's what I hate about these LED units. They may only need a small % of power that halogen units needed, but what a waste to scrap the ENTIRE unit when just the LED goes (for those units where the LED is not a separate bulb). So you then think, that 20-50,000 hrs will last quite a few years....obviously not. Will all retailers give you some kind of warranty? Will they honour it? I can imagine lots of cases where the wouldn't, ie, if you bought off ebay or Amazon. And then you will have a scenario where you need to have 2 spots replaced in kitchen only for that range to be non-existent. Replace the lot or try and mix and match with another brand/model.

 

I'm sticking to these:

 

 

Might darken the ceilings a bit and mess up my MVHR filters.

 

[Ed Davies]

1 hour ago, oranjeboom said:

but what a waste to scrap the ENTIRE unit when just the LED goes

 

As @JSHarris and others have found, it's rarely the LED that goes; almost always the electronics in the back.

 

1 hour ago, readiescards said:

I've tried various different makes and all seem to have bulbs that blow way before the 50,000 hours.

 

Out of curiosity, were many of those in recessed fittings? I have a strong suspicion that many LED failures are a result of being in fittings which cause them to overheat.

[joe90]

Just found this.   Also be sure to ask about our 3 year warranty and 30-day returns guarantee when you buy from LED Hut. ?

Edited November 23, 2018 by joe90

[Jeremy Harris]

9 hours ago, Ed Davies said:

 

As @JSHarris and others have found, it's rarely the LED that goes; almost always the electronics in the back.

 

 

Out of curiosity, were many of those in recessed fittings? I have a strong suspicion that many LED failures are a result of being in fittings which cause them to overheat.

 

From purely empirical evidence, I'm convinced that recessed fittings that allow the electronics in the base of the lamp to overheat is the primary cause of earlier failure.  I've done a few autopsies on dead LEDs, many donated by members of other forums, and every single one I've taken apart has suffered a failure of the LED driver electronics in the base; not one has suffered from an LED failure, as such.

 

One problem may be that fittings designed to house halogen lamps will aim to keep the lamp hot, as halogen lamps are at their most efficient when run hot.  This is exactly what is not needed for an LED lamp, where keeping the lamp as cool as possible is likely to increase reliability and life.

[Temp]

Three years ago I would probably have agreed with you. We had several GU10 fail but the failure rate seems to have improved since. There might still be issues with some makes but less than there was overall.

[oranjeboom]

On 23/11/2018 at 19:19, JSHarris said:

every single one I've taken apart has suffered a failure of the LED driver electronics in the base; not one has suffered from an LED failure, as such

 

So the LED lights that have a separate driver unit, away from the actual LED should not overheat as the GU10 type? 

 

 

I'm having to go for the above type for some ceilings that only have a 25mm gap between the insulation and plasterboard but may also fit them in the bungalow ceiling were I can have the driver unit sit above the insulation layer to prevent anything overheating (although they don't warm up very much at all tbh).

[Jeremy Harris]

I have quite a few of those slim panel LEDs and they are fine.  The problem seemed to be with LED lamps that were made to fit into standard halogen light fittings in the main.

[Ed_MK]

 

my sparky seems to swear by enlights 

he says he has been fitting them for years and they are good quality ..so thats what i went for 

 

101  fixed

102 directional

103 bathroom rated

 

 

103.s have a push on rubber sealed cover for wet areas to change bulb (pic below)

but the others have a handy half turn lockring and the bulb just comes out 

 

last ones i fitted in my old kitchen had bugger all space around them ...

so u ended up tottering on a dining chair with a butter knife between your teeth and a 

barbecue skewer jammed in the side 

 

 

then hoping you flicked the right RCD !

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dreadnaught]

4 minutes ago, Ed_MK said:

enlights 

 

These I assume: http://enlitelighting.com/gb/

[readiescards]

On 23/11/2018 at 10:07, Ed Davies said:

 

As @JSHarris and others have found, it's rarely the LED that goes; almost always the electronics in the back.

 

 

Out of curiosity, were many of those in recessed fittings? I have a strong suspicion that many LED failures are a result of being in fittings which cause them to overheat.

 

Just checked and yep all fittings that have had failures have no upward air holes to allow hot air to escape  (non are recessed as such but as mentioned are all 'un-vented' : new acronym ULF 'un-vented light fitting')

[readiescards]

On 24/11/2018 at 22:24, oranjeboom said:

 

So the LED lights that have a separate driver unit, away from the actual LED should not overheat as the GU10 type? 

 

 

I'm having to go for the above type for some ceilings that only have a 25mm gap between the insulation and plasterboard but may also fit them in the bungalow ceiling were I can have the driver unit sit above the insulation layer to prevent anything overheating (although they don't warm up very much at all tbh).

 

 

Ditto had no problems with these - accept I put too many in one room so it's a bit like an operating theatre

[Ed_MK]

tx Guys ...I will base my buying on your advice ...
 

I have 100mm joists which are filled with Roll acoustic and fire insulation,

but i will make sure the space around the lamps are clear

..i hope thats ok

[Onoff]

On 25/11/2018 at 14:09, Ed_MK said:

 

my sparky seems to swear by enlights 

he says he has been fitting them for years and they are good quality ..so thats what i went for 

 

101  fixed

102 directional

103 bathroom rated

 

 

103.s have a push on rubber sealed cover for wet areas to change bulb (pic below)

but the others have a handy half turn lockring and the bulb just comes out 

 

last ones i fitted in my old kitchen had bugger all space around them ...

so u ended up tottering on a dining chair with a butter knife between your teeth and a 

barbecue skewer jammed in the side 

 

 

then hoping you flicked the right RCD !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My go-to, Aurora Enlite.

 

So paranoid  (obsessed?) about these things in pir I've put mine in Thermahoods.

 

 

100mm pir in the ceiling at the mo. The Thermahood gets bedded on a seal of intumescent mastic.  I'm then going to foam fill around the Thermahood then over insulate with 50mm pir. Then a big, overlapping square of 150mm pir over that. Determined the "traditional", tall downlighters won't affect my insulation depth overall.

 

 

https://www.thermahood.com

 

The TH 095 is the lower profile than I've used square hood btw.

 

Be bloody expensive though with that many lights in yours!

 

Clay flower pots have been used in the past!