Questions about Waste Transfer, Licenses etc

[Ferdinand]

Obviously the whole system is a confused, confusing, bureaucratic mess, which could be designed to extracted as many paperwork fees as possible while incentivising flytipping, and making it all so difficult that fines can be picked off people like gooseberries from a bush, but...

 

1 - What is "waste"? Where is it defined? eg The 2011 Waste Regulations seem to be missing a definition.

 

eg to pick something on the edge. If I as a self-employed individual take some broken paving slabs from Location A to Location B to be used as hardcore, is that waste? To my eye it obviously is not, but what does the Law say? If I have organised for location B to have paid Location A a tenner for it, with a receipt, is that waste? What about eg wood from a tree-trim to be used for as firewood?

 

2 - What is defined as "waste you produce yourself."? Cited from here.

 

"Registration is usually free if you only transport waste you produce yourself. Otherwise, registration costs £154."

 

3 - Who needs to register for a license? Is transporting material between 2 of my own locations described as my 'own' waste?

 

What happens if the person transporting material is a self-employed tradesman working for me?

 

Any answers are most welcome.

 

Cheers

 

Ferdinand

Edited August 3, 2018 by Ferdinand

[ProDave]

I (as an electrician) generally leave all the waste from a job with the customer. If there is space, it is left in their own wheelie bin, which as their waste is legal.  I must admit I do this mostly because there is not often space in my own wheelie bin for it.

 

On the few occasions I do keep things removed from a job, they will be for re use or sale, so as far as I am concerned they are not "waste" but "stock"

 

I quite often bring wood home for the stove. That is most definitely NOT "waste" but "firewood"

 

On the very few occasions when for various reasons I so have to remove some waste from a job, I now stop at the first available public roadside bin and put it in there.

 

I do agree the present system is bonkers. That, and the restrictions on what a householder can take to their local tip recycling center does indeed in my mind encourage fly tipping.

[PeterW]

I was in our local place last week about 7:45pm and there were 3 vans in there - one was a plasterer offloading plaster and board into the skip and sweeping his van out. No-one stopped him at all, which suggests he is known and may have some sort of “arrangement”...... the other was a tipper transit and he definitely knew the people on site and it all looked very “trade” waste ...!

 

The third was a sparky and they were helping him unload the cable offcuts - wonder where that is being weighed in... ?

 

A classic case of playing the rules ..!

[Onoff]

At our tip if you're dumping any form of copper containing cable they have a "special" area away from the designated ones for it. Same place all the too good to throw away kids bikes and garden equipment seems to end up... 

 

Amazing how if you ask to take anything that you see; "Not allowed mate, rules you see, Health & Safety.....".

 

I always feel the place is run by an extended family who's primary dwelling is on wheels...

[newhome]

6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

That, and the restrictions on what a householder can take to their local tip recycling center does indeed in my mind encourage fly tipping.

 

I am (in theory) not allowed to use my local tip where I use the local shops at the same time because it’s in the neighbouring LA. I am supposed to drive to the one miles further in a place where I would never have any reason to go other than to dump rubbish. Very energy efficient! So I generally stick a bit of rubbish in the car when I need to and take it to the tip that I’m not allowed to use. I would only be challenged if I was there a lot or dumping what looked like trade waste as some people are asked to provide proof of address. Mostly I try to use the wheelie bin but sometimes things just don’t fit. My LA won’t collect garden refuse either but the neighbouring one does. I bag it up and stick it in the rubbish bin that is not allowed. 

[newhome]

10 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Same place all the too good to throw away kids bikes and garden equipment seems to end up... 

 

 

The local one that I’m not allowed to use has a big shed to put ‘too good to throw away’ items. It’s part of an initiative called zero waste. They have a large warehouse where it all ends up and they sell to the public. They also partner with various businesses so often have weird and wonderful things on sale. They cleared the entire map room at Edinburgh uni for example and sold them off for £2 each. There were some very weird and wonderful maps to look at and buy. They also collect items of school uniform and give away free of charge. Much better than so much stuff ending up in landfill. 

 

Zero waste

 

 

 

 

 

[dpmiller]

Bonkers here, they introduced a local permit scheme...

 

A trailer is only private if single axled.  Double axled? You're automatically a trader and need a permit.

Drive a van? Needs a permit. Any trailer on a van automatically trade.

 

Whist permits are free, there are two kinds.

Single use,  anything brought in *but must be itemised on the permit*

Mulit use- only for garden waste on a trailer. If you're in a van you MUST NOT UNLOAD ANYHING FROM THE VAN during each visit.

 

Oh and don't start me on scrap. The council's metal skip is subbed to a local recycler, who is based less than 100yds away and pays well for drive-ins. Why would anyone give it to the council for free? Heck I've a guy that calls to the door to collect all mine and crosses my palm each time.  no, his house doesn't have wheels...

[Jeremy Harris]

50 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I do agree the present system is bonkers. That, and the restrictions on what a householder can take to their local tip recycling center does indeed in my mind encourage fly tipping.

 

 

I've told this tale before, but my car was banned from all our local (Wiltshire) recycling centres when I started clearing stuff from our old house (around the time I was re-doing the bathroom and downstairs WC, to tart them up a bit to sell).  I made three visits over three days one week, in my old Prius, and on the third day I was stopped and told my number plate had been logged on their ANPR, they considered I was disposing of trade waste and needed to apply for a trade waste licence, pay the fee, etc.  I refused, on the basis that I'm just a householder who pays Council Tax, drives an ordinary saloon car and couldn't get a trade waste licence as I don't run a business that produces any waste.  They were adamant and the ban extended to all Wiltshire recycling centres I found.

 

When I changed cars the ban still remained in place, as I kept the same number plate...

 

My work around was to drive a bit further to Shaftesbury, which comes under Dorset Council.  They have never caused me a problem, but I don't feel it's right to have to use the facilities in another county that I don't pay for.

 

As it happens, I discovered recently that the ANPR ban on my car registration must have expired, as I risked using the Salisbury recycling centre and got away with using it without being stopped.

 

The easy way for me to get rid of stuff would be to fly tip.  There's an entrance to an wide byway just behind Old Sarum castle that I drive past most days, and that's always got piles of fly tipped waste in it.  The council clear it every week or so, but it's always full again after the following weekend.  My guess, looking from what's tipped there, that it's domestic fly tipping, rather than commercial, most probably by people who, like me, got banned for regular use.

[Onoff]

I love it down here, it's been a big problem so the council identified the problem lay-bys, field entrances etc and had a contractor diligently tidy the areas up, dig a hole and concrete in warnings on high metal posts.

 

They now fly tip against the No Fly Tipping signs. Given all that extra space around them it'd  be rude not to! In one instance it was so high you could have climbed the pile and nicked the sign. I think that may have happened along with the posts thinking about it. 

 

The obligatory pile of tyres is common. One of the oddest was a mountain of 3' lengths of cable insulation about 4" diameter. Took an age for that to go.

[Bitpipe]

Our LA (RBWM) has a pretty decent amenity centre - there is one for recyclables (wood & garden waste) and a separate one that takes just about anything in about 20 separate containers (from oil to paint, rubble, metal, small appliances, large appliances, etc..).

 

To access the general purpose area you need to show your LA photo ID, the same one we use for leisure centre access (and free entry to Windsor Castle).

 

I can testify that there are no limits on frequency or volume - I disposed of a huge quantity of cardboard (mostly IKEA) and wood (offcuts from the build that I didn't want clogging up the skip.

 

Cardboard has recently moved from the recycle dump to the general one as it now needs to be folded and 'posted' through a slot to ensure it's clean, dry and no plastic or polystyrene. Bit of a faff but they were having an issue with contamination and rejection of the entire container of cardboard.

 

You can get a permit to take a van on site, I did this during the garden landscaping but my landscaper's van was turned away as it had his logo on it and they thought we were trying to dump commercial waste. I stood my ground and the supervisor came to site and OK'd it as I was a resident.

[joe90]

My tip back in Bristol was great, I told them I was doing up a great big house and that was the reason for so much crap. (It was not all my own!!,). Down here in Devon we started clearing father in laws (deceased) sheds on the site we have since built on, I did have a van but was converted by me to a camper, beds, table, curtains, but since it was till taxed as “light private goods” they were not impressed. I found a tyre in the roadside hedge outside ours so loaded that and was told I had to pay and did not believe I had found it on the road side so I told them I would put it back and the council could send a van and two blokes to collect it, they then told me I would be done for fly tipping ffs. Then they opened a Tesco bag that had half a dozen old tiles in it after father in law had left over from tiling the kitchen, No, that was trade waste and had to pay. I have not been back. All my rubbish is now taken by my builder who has an old quarry on his site and is slowly filling it. (He has a trade waste license).

[newhome]

27 minutes ago, Onoff said:

I love it down here, it's been a big problem so the council identified the problem lay-bys, 

 

Do you remember the big lay-by on the A249 at the top of Detling Hill? That wasn't closed because of fly tipping but because the various authorities were unable to control its use as the local erm, dogging site, so they shut it! 

 

 

[newhome]

46 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

A trailer is only private if single axled.  Double axled? You're automatically a trader and need a permit.

 

 

We were lucky then as we bought and used a twin axle Ifor Williams trailer during the build and took that to the tip in the days before they started being weird about postcodes and traliers. Saved a fortune in skips. Then we sold it for as much as we paid for it having used it several years. 

[nod]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

I (as an electrician) generally leave all the waste from a job with the customer. If there is space, it is left in their own wheelie bin, which as their waste is legal.  I must admit I do this mostly because there is not often space in my own wheelie bin for it.

 

On the few occasions I do keep things removed from a job, they will be for re use or sale, so as far as I am concerned they are not "waste" but "stock"

 

I quite often bring wood home for the stove. That is most definitely NOT "waste" but "firewood"

 

On the very few occasions when for various reasons I so have to remove some waste from a job, I now stop at the first available public roadside bin and put it in there.

 

I do agree the present system is bonkers. That, and the restrictions on what a householder can take to their local tip recycling center does indeed in my mind encourage fly tipping.

It’s so ridiculous now

I put off cuts of wire in our wheelie bin last week 

The one marked plastic and metal

They emptied the bin and put the wire on top of the empty bin

[MrMagic]

It's quite an eye opener sometimes at the local dump - you can see people unloading cars, SUVs and trailers rammed to the gunnels of assorted carp from the shed/garden... but the moment you turn up with a tiny offcut of Celotex, no, thats trade waste.

 

Our local LA is now charging for plasterboard and rubble/soil waste - £2.50 per standard rubble sack or item.. had to pay £5 to get rid of an old toilet as the cistern was classed as separate to the pedestal even though I left them bolted together.

 

 

 

 

[joe90]

I am glad I am retired (or is that just tired?). 

[ProDave]

My BIL had a run in at his local tip. He had a pick up truck and in the back he had a 1 ton builders bag full of garden waste. He dragged it out of the truck and started unloading it.  Immediately an operative came over and said you can't tip that much.  My BIL eventually won the argument when he pointed to the sign saying "garden waste, 1 car, 1 bag" and he pointed out he only had 1 car, and he only had 1 bag of garden waste.

 

TIP:  (cough) the bottom half of a domestic wheelie bin is "very useful"

[newhome]

18 minutes ago, ProDave said:

TIP:  (cough) the bottom half of a domestic wheelie bin is "very useful"

 

Yep, it’s my first port of call! ?

[Gone West]

We must be very lucky around here. We have taken all the waste from the build and demolition to the local tips with the exception of one grab lorry of mixed soil and rubble and the asbestos wall boards and roof tiles. We have also used Freegle and Freecycle to get rid of a lot of stuff.

[recoveringbuilder]

We have a helluva amount of rubbish accumulating so hubby decided we should get a skip in, he phoned for one the other day and was told he would not be able to put any plasterboard in it! £250 and we’d need to sort out the rubbish, we will be bagging up and starting a regular run to the coup tomorrow, hope we don’t get banned ?

[ProDave]

This plasterboard waste thing.  Perhaps it is just me, but doing my own boarding, I keep all the offcuts lined up, and when I need a small piece, I look FIRST at the stack of offcuts, and even work out if I lay it out slightly differently can I make it so I can use an offcut.

 

Result is after boarding 3/4 of the house, the stack of offcuts ammounts to less than 2 full sheets, and what is eventually left over might just gradually make it's way into the bottom of that green thing on wheels.

 

The other day I visited a neighbour who had just had a conservatory built. I ended up skip diving and recovering some sizeable offcuts of 50mm PIR insulation, a whole sheet of reinforcing mesh, and some useful bits of timber.  Also in the skip was a bag full of left over brand new drainpipe fittings which I only left there as I don't have brown drainpipe.  The sheer waste of some professionals (paid for by the customer) is astounding.

 

Our local tip will allow you to take waste in a van or trailer IF you fill in a form to declare it is personal waste not trade waste. But of course it would be far too helpful for them to keep a supply of the forms actually at the tip.

[Triassic]

Our general household waste bin is emptied once a fourtnight and being only two of us leaves plenty of room for black bin bags. So every 2 weeks I walk around site with bin bags and so far I’ve managed to get rd of most of our general site waste.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Triassic

[Ed Davies]

I'm guessing this is a can of worms [¹] but where's the boundary between “domestic” and “trade” waste?

 

E.g., if you're doing some redecorating at home any waste is surely domestic. What about bigger renovations? Building an extension? Building a separate house on the same site? Building a house on a separate site?

 

Specifically, if I take stuff like the plastic wrapping my timber I-beams came in to the local tip, is there anything I can quote to say, no, for my DIY build this is not commercial waste?

 

[¹] An actual can of worms isn't waste - you want the worms but once they're out of the can the can will be waste.

[ProDave]

Are you living on site and paying council tax? if so you will have a pair of wheelie bins.  Mine seem to "disappear" most of my rubbish.  Larger stuff I take to the local tip, usually in my Landrover to save unloading my work tools.

[Jeremy Harris]

From my experience I'd say the boundary between trade waste and domestic waste seems to be completely arbitrary and depends on the particular staff on duty at the recycling centre.   I've not been able to find a specific definition that applies here, other than if you are operating a business you are supposed to register, and pay for, a trade waste licence (which seems fine to me).

 

The problem I encountered was that reasonably small scale renovation (just DIY refurbishment of a bathroom and WC) was considered to be "trade waste" by our local centre, despite me turning up in a hatchback saloon car with the stuff. 

 

I've adopted a similar technique to @ProDave now, and try and cut waste that cannot be recycled into small pieces and hide it in the bottom of our wheelie bin.  Seems to work, and as we are paying council tax for both the old house (in the middle of being sold) and the new build, I have two lots of recycling and wheelie bins I can use.  Luckily the collections for each house are on alternating weeks, so the recycling collection week at one house will be the refuse collection week at the other house.  Makes it a bit easier to not over-fill any of the bins and attract attention.