Roof before first floor?

[ToughButterCup]

Given a careful risk assessment and appropriate safety plan, Is there any reason why we should not put our roof on before we fit the first floor?

 

We have more than enough kwikstage to put up a proper, safe working platform several feet above the first floor level both inside and outside the house,  sufficient also to take us to the roof apex. 

 

You might be aware that we've found it difficult to get trades to come and what do what they say they will do  when they  say they will do it.

My concern is  lack of communication when the normal rescheduling process occurs. (For example)

If we had a waterproof roof, then working inside would be much less subject to scheduling  crises.  And that has been our main issue since the beginning of the build. 

 

 

[joe90]

That seems a very good idea, it means your first floor when built will not get wet so less drying out and you are able to work “ indoors” in wet weather.

[Mr Punter]

As long as the first floor is not needed to stabilise the walls I don't see why not.  Could you not joist it out anyway though?

[ProDave]

I can't see why this would be a problem, though I have to ask how is the floor going to be supported? normally the joists get built in as you go up?

[Jeremy Harris]

I think I'd be inclined to put the floor joists in, really because it's probably easier to do with the roof off, it may well stiffen up the walls a bit and it allows temporary boarding to be put down which may be handy when putting the roof on. 

 

Also worth thinking about fall distances and risk, I think.  Falling off the roof and down to ground level inside the house is going to hurt, and the roofers may ask for bags to be placed in the house for fall protection. 

[Ferdinand]

I think I would be inclined to joist out and put the 1st floor boards in in something weather resilient, rather than pay for temporary boarding then the real stuff.

 

Needs calculating, though.

[JamesP]

I fitted the first floor joists and 22m Caberdek P5 before the rafters. It was just much easier to work off a solid platform for me. It got a little wet but not a problem.

[nod]

1 hour ago, recoveringacademic said:

Given a careful risk assessment and appropriate safety plan, Is there any reason why we should not put our roof on before we fit the first floor?

 

We have more than enough kwikstage to put up a proper, safe working platform several feet above the first floor level both inside and outside the house,  sufficient also to take us to the roof apex. 

 

You might be aware that we've found it difficult to get trades to come and what do what they say they will do  when they  say they will do it.

My concern is  lack of communication when the normal rescheduling process occurs. (For example)

If we had a waterproof roof, then working inside would be much less subject to scheduling  crises.  And that has been our main issue since the beginning of the build. 

 

 

I would get your floor in first 

Unless you have anough scaffold to cover the whole perimeter as well 

As you will definitely need a perimeter scaffold to put the roof on 

[Construction Channel]

I would agree with putting the joists in first. Then temp board them with all the OSB you have lying around. If nothing else it will make it feel a lot safer when you are working on the roof. That will look a long way down if you have nothing else to hit from the ridge to the floor. 

[Russell griffiths]

I’m with all who say get the first floor in. 

[ToughButterCup]

To those of you who have mentioned the stiffness of the walls:

The house is  made of well-cured concrete. It has endured all the  named storms since October. One or two visiting trades  folk have said that any other type of house ( i.e. non-ICF) would have '.... been down bi now maaaate....'  The house has more rebar in it than TaTa Steel works.

 

To those of you who have mentioned boarding:

We have enough kwikstage scaffold and boards to make a working platform at first floor or higher, and in the case of the ridge, up to and beyond it

The roof is vaulted: we are not using trusses. So there appears to me to be no reason why, once the ridge beam is in place,  the rafters cannot be put on in two halves.

 

Safety is a principal concern:

Our Kwikstage can be built up to way beyond First floor height. We already have three full harnesses, and need to consider a fall arrestor.   I am considering ringing a mate who is an H+S bod to come and do an assessment. He is a very very nice man, very nice indeed. Trouble is I can't name him.

 

Debbie leaned over my shoulder just now and wants me to thank you all for your help.

She is being a real star, lugging long Standards and Ledgers around and fussing gently. And the weight of those boards ---- phew! Some, wetter than others, feel like they are double the weight.

 

Yes, @ProDave, I have spent an hour each morning and evening stickering the ones in store so they dry out. Thanks for your blog post about that. Saved me a good deal of money.

Pint next meeting 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Alphonsox]

Putting the question the other way around - Why wouldn't you put the first floor in ? What are you hoping to save.

We had "Weyroc Protect" flooring in at an early stage - this stuff is waterproof/resistant for weeks and makes working at roof level a lot less scary

[HerbJ]

7 minutes ago, Alphonsox said:

Putting the question the other way around - Why wouldn't you put the first floor in ? What are you hoping to save.

 This is a really good question. 

Another thing to consider is how much more difficult will it be to install the 1st Floor after the roof is fitted?  There may be some benefit to at least getting all the heavy stuff lifted into place before you complete the roof. It would save a lot of manhandling of floor boards, joists etc.  

[ToughButterCup]

7 minutes ago, Alphonsox said:

Putting the question the other way around - Why wouldn't you put the first floor in ? What are you hoping to save.

We had "Weyroc Protect" flooring in at an early stage - this stuff is waterproof/resistant for weeks and makes working at roof level a lot less scary

 

It's exactly that question , @Alphonsox, ' ' ... what are we hoping to save... '  that made us think out-of-the-box.

 

The unavailability of labour, for whatever reason, has made us try to build as defensively as we can. I  / we  have had enough of key people  promising and not delivering. For months at an end; constant kicking the problem down the road on their part has really pi$$ed us off.

 

We've just had enough.

 

@HerbJ, thanks for the thought : mini material handler (the sort that will get into a container)  £115 per day. 

 

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

1 hour ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

To those of you who have mentioned the stiffness of the walls:

The house is  made of well-cured concrete. It has endured all the  named storms since October. One or two visiting trades  folk have said that any other type of house ( i.e. non-ICF) would have '.... been down bi now maaaate....'  The house has more rebar in it than TaTa Steel works.

 

This is design dependent so your SE will tell you if the internal floors are in any way structural as they may well be. 

[Alexphd1]

We put the roof on before upstairs floor. No real problems. ICF build. 

[ToughButterCup]

OK, folks, so this is what we've decided:

 

Monday a.m. ring the SE. Thanks @MikeSharp01

Monday a.m.  a bit later  ring the H+S guy. Thanks @JSHarris

It's a finely balanced decision which could go either way. But leaning towards roof on first.

 

Thanks everyone else, our heads are a lot clearer. 

[nod]

I can understand howfrustrated You Both are When someone agrees to do something they should do it

 

I was contacted today by a good of ours He’s serious damp problems in a basement flat 

He can’t get anyone to do the tanking So him and I will spend the next two weekends sorting it out 

I was hoping to start plasterboardibg next weekend 

But as Deborah said

The plasterboard will still be there in three weeks time 

 

The annoying thing is that everyone on here feels duty bound to pay the bills on time 

Can be a bit of a one way street

 

Ive just started an apartment block for a company who hasn’t paid since October But have assured us they will have a cheque for us on the 15th of March

 

Yiu will both feel a lot better once the house is water tight 

 

 give me a call if you need anything

 

   Gary 

 

 

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

Quick update;

• The SE (Tanners) have agreed, subject a small bit of bracing (two ledgers  255 by 44  at first floor level on one part of the North wall)
• The architect has agreed, that it would be a good idea
• Durisol (the build method) themselves agree that there's no problem in putting the roof on first and are coming round to see us next week.

Looks like the roof's going on first then.

 

Now: next problem - seat the Glulam ridge beam in the Durisol. 

[Jeremy Harris]

2 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

Now: next problem - seat the Glulam ridge beam in the Durisol. 

 

 

No, No, it's not a PROBLEM, it's a CHALLENGE, with a reward when you beat it!

[Construction Channel]

8 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

with a reward when you beat it!

 

A reward of more challenges  

[ToughButterCup]

Well, boys I have built one roof, so I know I can do it.

 

I must admit, the roots of my teeth are cold at the thought of the next couple of weeks.