I thought the pipes going in and out of the ASHP should be insulated

[CalvinHobbes]

I thought the pipes going in and out of the ASHP should be insulated and that a kit came with it but I was told not for this kind. Is this correct?

[Thorfun]

aren't they just flexible hoses? definitely don't look insulated already so i would suggest that insulation should be added to them.

 

but i am no expert! maybe @Nickfromwales can chime in?

[nod]

Piss poor 

[JohnMo]

17 minutes ago, CalvinHobbes said:

thought the pipes going in and out of the ASHP should be insulated and that a kit came with it but I was told not for this kind. Is this correct?

They are talking out their ar**

 

All outside pipes need insulation. The insulation needs to be 19mm thick minimum, ideally 25mm and UV resistant.

[-rick-]

Just now, JohnMo said:

The insulation needs to be 19mm thick minimum, ideally 25mm and UV resistant.

closed-cell

[Gone West]

37 minutes ago, CalvinHobbes said:

but I was told not for this kind

I don't know much about ASHP, but is it a split system, and they're not water pipes.

[-rick-]

1 minute ago, Gone West said:

I don't know much about ASHP, but is it a split system, and they're not water pipes.

 

Even then they should be insulated. They aren't refridgerant pipes though.

[nod]

9 minutes ago, Gone West said:

I don't know much about ASHP, but is it a split system, and they're not water pipes.

They should be insulated 

Basic error Or can’t be bothered 

Id be concerned about the rest 

[JamesPa]

25 minutes ago, nod said:

 

Id be concerned about the rest 

 

for example ... those flexis look like 22mm connected to 28mm coming out of the heat pump.  This maybe OK but given the BS re insulation I wouldn't bet on it.  

 

If its not too late Id give the system a good checking over and ask about anything faintly suspicious before paying.

 

[torre]

18 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

those flexis look like 22mm connected to 28mm coming out of the heat pump

and the two valves (wingnut style) may not be full bore and won't be easy to access once properly insulated either. That grey bit of insulation coming out of the ground also needs protecting from UV.

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, CalvinHobbes said:

I thought the pipes going in and out of the ASHP should be insulated and that a kit came with it but I was told not for this kind. Is this correct?

Didn't you ask about this back in June as well? You just need something like this

 

https://www.bes.co.uk/primary-pro-ashp-insulation-28-x-19mm-x-1m-26208/

[Andehh]

Yes 100% should be Insulated! I've got both air to air and air to water and everything is insulated in Armaflex type insulation. 

[scottishjohn]

2 hours ago, nod said:

Basic error Or can’t be bothered 

hit the nail right on the head 

even inside house you want the heat to go where you want it with as little heat loss as possible 

Im having an argument with my builder 

 

as its a large house the run from ASHP to the hot water tank which is situated upstairs in middle bedroom along  with the  upstairs UFH mainfold goes through other rooms in ceilings etc 

 so i am getting heating from these 2 x22mm pipes in rooms where thermostats are not asking for heat  and where it is making room temps higher than i would set them at 

 

 so yes everything must to insulated from source to where you distribute it

 

 my heat gun camera shows it up very easily --hot lines in the ceilings  and floors where a feed to another room goes through 

I know the heat is not getting out of the house , due to it being inside the insulated and sealed envelope ,but the whole point of having zoned heating is you control where it heats and where it does not 

 I might as well not have had upstairs hall/ corridor  zone at all as the feed pipes to opposite ends of house go along this 

 some of it I will have to live with I know --but I want the feed pipes lagged from ASHP to hot water tank and control unit 

 

Edited September 22 by scottishjohn

[Canski]

The dreaded SAP company asked me for geolocated photos for this as well. Of course I obliged. They need to be insulated as well as any primary pipework outside of the thermal envelope.

[scottishjohn]

2 minutes ago, Canski said:

They need to be insulated as well as any primary pipework outside of the thermal envelope.

Iwould say from ASHP to your ufh manifolds and hot water tank 

[Nickfromwales]

5 hours ago, CalvinHobbes said:

but I was told not for this kind. Is this correct?

Nope lol. They’re just lazy tossers.

 

Looks like they’ve cheaped out on the smaller flexis, which will be a choke point when you’re looking to get the DHW cylinder heated up after use. 
 

The butterfly valves are most likely 1/4 full bore, but the flexis are questionable. 
 

If it all works, you may think “what’s the problem” but when you see the difference in heat up times for DHW when there’s a much higher flow rate, then you’ll see.

 

There’s a big difference between hardly working and working well.

 

The worst part is they took you for a muppet and lied to your face about insulation not being needed.
 

Cocks. 

[Nickfromwales]

5 hours ago, Thorfun said:

aren't they just flexible hoses? definitely don't look insulated already so i would suggest that insulation should be added to them.

 

but i am no expert! maybe @Nickfromwales can chime in?

You have to say my name 3 times 🙄🤦‍♂️

[HughF]

Yes they should be insulated… I hate flexis personally, don’t think they’re really needed if you’ve got properly bonded insulated twin…

 

This has since had a couple of coats of the condensate pro UV touch up paint.

[JohnMo]

3 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

even inside house you want the heat to go where you want it with as little heat loss as possible

Not exactly true if you run an open single zone system as no heat.is wasted. But you do need the pipes that go to the cylinder insulated.

 

3 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

zoned heating

With an ASHP that normally needs a buffer to get acceptable flow and cycle times, but also leads to less than ideal CoP due to flow temperature distortion, unless the buffer is huge and the flow through primary and secondary is perfectly matched, which it will not be.

[Nickfromwales]

I don’t know how many more PM’s I’m going to have to send…..

 

I have said to not mention zones or buffers in front of @JohnMo 

 

I thought I’d reached everyone……😑

[JohnMo]

5 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

I don’t know how many more PM’s I’m going to have to send…..

 

I have said to not mention zones or buffers in front of @JohnMo 

 

I thought I’d reached everyone……😑

Just keep installing them buffers and thermostats, if you want. But alternatives exist. I will sign out now.

[Canski]

10 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

 

 

The worst part is they took you for a muppet and lied to your face about insulation not being needed.

I agree. This sort of thing boils my Pee. For some reason I had a little smile at this. I think it’s because I’ve got a funny feeling that they will have to do a re visit that is going to cost them time and money. It’s easier and cheaper to do it right the first time. 

[scottishjohn]

10 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Not exactly true if you run an open single zone system as no heat.is wasted. But you do need the pipes that go to the cylinder insulated.

 

NO what i have is exactly true ,even if you run a single zone 

heat from ASHP should not be going anywhere until it gets to the distribution point  and DHW tank

  and who inthier right mind would run a single zone in a 400sqm house 

with 4 bedrooms and other rooms you do not use very day 

[JamesPa]

26 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

 

  and who inthier right mind would run a single zone in a 400sqm house 

with 4 bedrooms and other rooms you do not use very day 

Assuming  (a) that the house is well insulated (b) that the insulation between rooms is poor, and (c) the house isnt long and thin, then then anyone who understands a bit about the physics of heating, heat loss and cooling, and hasn't been brainwashed by the controls industry.  (a) and (b) are likely to be the case with most newbuilds, (c) is obviously build dependent.  

 

Single zone btw does not mean all rooms have to be at the same temperature!

Edited September 23 by JamesPa

[joth]

18 hours ago, Gone West said:

I don't know much about ASHP, but is it a split system, and they're not water pipes.

That's definitely a monobloc and those are definitely water pipes.

 

Insulation is required by part L and by MCS MIS 3005, which I presume is why city plumbing think it's OK to charge over 200 notes for a pair of flexis 

https://www.cityplumbing.co.uk/p/pump-house-ashp-flexible-hose-750mm-female-114in-fh-750-2-114-f/p/648052

 

EDIT F*** me! I think that's the price for a single flexi, so > £400 for the pair. I'm in the wrong business.

 

Edited September 23 by joth