Do I sack my builder? Help me think this through please.

[PeterW]

43 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Yup. When you get to the standing-and-staring-at-it stage, it's time for a kick up the arse. 

Chomping a pie whilst deciding MAY help . Better than granola. ?

 

We should start a sub forum for those projects that need motivation.... we could take it in turns to provide the motivation (or abuse..) depending on the requirements ..!

[Nickfromwales]

I'll do the abuse section. When the F**** do I start ?!? . 

[ProDave]

What a sad state of affairs. It just makes me feel lucky I had such a good mutually trusting relationship with our builders.

 

Before you just sack them, I would call a meeting, and highlight to them your exact concerns in every last detail. It might help them to agree that parting company is the best way forward.

[Construction Channel]

2 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

Meanwhile, this week, I'm using the Piggery rebuild  as a pilot project. It's been left incomplete and -to an extent defaced- by the re-build so far. The gables need shuttering and pouring. The the roof needs building ( @Construction Channel, please watch my back with this one).

The joke is that the rear wall is badly out of line: I'm talking about an inch or so out of line (photos to follow). But that's just a bit of fun because nobody'll ever see it. And solving the problem of the out of line wall will be interesting in terms of building the roof.

 

You only need to ask. If you have bought and read a "ready reckoner" you will know as much about straight forward roofing as I do. It may not give you the experience but the theory is all in there. as for getting over the rest of it that's why we started this place. 

 

Its clear from the rest of this thread that your builder is down the road. But I really wouldn't underestimate what is left to do before you can sub the rest out.

 

You need to look into getting a "mate" asap. Even if they are just a fit labourer. Roofing is a Bastard by yourself. TBF anything is a lot harder on your own and although I don't want to admit it, it will wear you down quicker than you think. Both mentally and physically. 

 

Different people deal with the mental side differently and as long as you set reasonable milestones to celebrate you should be ok. But if you go and bugger your back lumping blocks/timber about and have to stay in bed for any amount of time then you will soon find out how strong you are mentally. 

 

If I can find any time to come up when you are about to start roofing I will try to take some time off. Faye won't be happy but I'll see if I can wangle it to involve some wedding food tasting. 

 

[Triassic]

Oh well, that's a second quote ready for the bin! Won't be using your dodgy builder!

 

At this rate I'll be doing my build on my own.

 

where do you find good sub contractors?

[PeterW]

10 minutes ago, Construction Channel said:

 

You only need to ask. If you have bought and read a "ready reckoner" you will know as much about straight forward roofing as I do. It may not give you the experience but the theory is all in there. 

 

You need to look into getting a "mate" asap. Even if they are just a fit labourer. Roofing is a Bastard by yourself. TBF anything is a lot harder on your own and although I don't want to admit it, it will wear you down quicker than you think. Both mentally and physically. 

 

 

 

If I can find any time to come up when you are about to start roofing I will try to take some time off. Faye won't be happy but I'll see if I can wangle it to involve some wedding food tasting. 

 

 

Pick me up on the way .... 

 

you need a big b&stard slide chop saw too that will get to the angles

you need on the max timber size you have. I could have saved hours with a sliding mitre that would do 50 degree 8x2...!

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

1 minute ago, Triassic said:

Oh well, that's a second quote ready for the bin! Won't be using your dodgy builder![...]

 

I don't see him as dodgy.  He's likeable, personable and -in relation to most things- straight. No different to many local tradesmen here. I like him a lot. But organisation, and being open about difficult issues isn't one of his strengths. And that's how most trades are innit?

 

On his own with two of the permanent lads around him, all would be well; nearly.  It's the oafs that are the problem, and the pathological inability to provide even simple paperwork on time.

He's under pressure during this boom time. Sure as eggs is eggs the bust is coming. And then he'll be scratching around for work.

@Construction Channel, you are, of course, absolutely right. I need a bit of luck with the 'pal', if only for the sake of safety.

 

It's a remote if about folk coming up to help, but if you do, we'd arrange to put you up somehow. I really appreciate the kindness.

 

Ian

[Nickfromwales]

On 8 August 2017 at 10:52, PeterW said:

 

you need a big b&stard slide chop saw too that will get to the angles

you need on the max timber size you have. I could have saved hours with a sliding mitre that would do 50 degree 8x2...!

 

 

 

Dewalt DWS 780 XPS shadow line. She's the beast. Hire one, it's too much to buy and own ( unless your doing all the internal carpentry and joinery ? ). ?

Edited August 12, 2017 by Nickfromwales

[Jeremy Harris]

The biggest problem I found was finding reliable and competent tradespeople.  You really only need to find one, as the good people will have a network of other trades they know to be good, and they won't risk their own reputation by recommending someone that's not up it.

 

If you're very lucky, you may find someone who is a very good "jack of all trades".  We chanced upon one, when we started doing the landscaping.  He came by recommendation from one of the guys we had working inside the house, and turned out to be one of those people who work hard, can turn their hand to a wide range of jobs, always turn up on time and set themselves high quality standards, just because he's proud of his work.  The big downside is that people like this are in demand, and have a pretty full order book.

[PeterW]

15 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

It's a remote if about folk coming up to help, but if you do, we'd arrange to put you up somehow. I really appreciate the kindness.

 

Got the plans ..?? Isn't yours a big flat roof ..?? 

[richi]

36 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

…the good people will have a network of other trades they know to be good, and they won't risk their own reputation by recommending someone that's not up it.

THIS (as I'm led to believe the kids say).

[gravelld]

49 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

The biggest problem I found was finding reliable and competent tradespeople.  You really only need to find one, as the good people will have a network of other trades they know to be good, and they won't risk their own reputation by recommending someone that's not up it.

Yes, another way of putting it is that A players like to work with A players. See this phenomenon in various walks of life.

[Temp]

You say some of his staff are good. Are they the ones you might need? Perhaps ask them discretely if they are full time employees or contractors and collect their business card. 

[ProDave]

Another +1 for needing a second pair of hands. You can't build a house with just one.  I have been doing my damnest to achieve that for over a year now. I have only go this far thanks to SWMBO not being afraid to lift, carry, hold stuff when I need it She is pretty handy at erecting and dismantling kwikstage as well. Current job plasterboarding, just cannot be done alone.

 

Occasionally when I need a stronger / more skilled assistant, I have a couple of friends I can call on as well.

 

But don't underestimate the task alone, it will take a long time. There are days when you really wish you could go and do something else, so you really do need to make time off the job as well. (myself just back on the job after 2 days off playing on boats)

[Stones]

@recoveringacademic, Ian, plenty advice already bit I'll just reinforce, one of our builds we were badly let down by the decorator. We ended up parting ways but not before a huge amount of stress. In hindsight, I wish I had got rid of him far earlier.

 

I think you have made your decision and that with all the support, included those of us who have experience of ICF, you can progress without your builder, but definitely, try any get somebody to assist you if you are going to do a lot if the physical work yourself.

 

Time for an amicable sit down with the builder, be polite and go along the lines of I can see you are struggling to undertake our build due to your order book, and yes we were unlucky with the weather,   but we have to finish by x date and need to push on ourselves, can we assess where we are in terms of work undertaken and settle up. Give him a way out and hopefully it will be a relatively easy process.

 

 

[Triassic]

1 hour ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

I don't see him as dodgy.  He's likeable, personable and -in relation to most things- straight. No different to many local tradesmen here. I like him a lot. But organisation, and being open about difficult issues isn't one of his strengths. And that's how most trades are innit?

 

On his own with two of the permanent lads around him, all would be well; nearly.  It's the oafs that are the problem, and the pathological inability to provide even simple paperwork on time.

He's under pressure during this boom time. Sure as eggs is eggs the bust is coming. And then he'll be scratching around for work.

@Construction Channel, you are, of course, absolutely right. I need a bit of luck with the 'pal', if only for the sake of safety.

 

It's a remote if about folk coming up to help, but if you do, we'd arrange to put you up somehow. I really appreciate the kindness.

 

Ian

My last big build was a roof off, floors out renovation of a five bedroom house built in 1770. The builder I used was also poor in the paperwork department and employed too many muppets, a few of which were paid  cash in hand. His lack of paperwork finally caught up with him when the VAT man visited, a few months later he went bust leaving a number of unhappy customers and a lot of unpaid suppliers. Luckily for me, we'd parted company a few months before, leaving me to finish off the work.

 

Maybe I was a bit harsh to call your builder dodgy! 

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Stones said:

 

Time for an amicable sit down with the builder, be polite and go along the lines of I can see you are struggling to undertake our build due to your order book, and yes we were unlucky with the weather,   but we have to finish by x date and need to push on ourselves, can we assess where we are in terms of work undertaken and settle up. Give him a way out and hopefully it will be a relatively easy process.

 

 

We've already had one of those about the 'blow out' It's the desire not to repeat that incident which makes the decision so sharp. One more turbulent easterly and is it bye-bye west wall too?

 

I have made to my mind: if he's not onsite by Friday, then the risks of collapse are too great. Quite apart from anything I expect the Insurers will want chapter and verse...

 

Ian

 

[Vijay]

I feel for you Ian I really do. I've read your posts including this one and it certainly feels like you know what you need to do. I firmly believe the DIY route is a good one but as others have said (and I'm finding out), taking on too much takes its toll and you definitely need to find time to relax if you do indeed take things on yourself.

 

Good luck with what ever you decided to do - go with your gut feeling I reckon

 

Vijay

[ToughButterCup]

56 minutes ago, Vijay said:

I feel for you Ian I really do.[...]

Good luck with what ever you decided to do - go with your gut feeling I reckon

 

Vijay

 

...... I'll just have to JFWGOWI won't I.

How many people would love to have the chance of the problems I have? There must be thousands who'd give up a good deal to be able to do what I am. 

Ian

[Jeremy Harris]

2 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

We've already had one of those about the 'blow out' It's the desire not to repeat that incident which makes the decision so sharp. One more turbulent easterly and is it bye-bye west wall too?

 

I have made to my mind: if he's not onsite by Friday, then the risks of collapse are too great. Quite apart from anything I expect the Insurers will want chapter and verse...

 

Ian

 

 

 

Ian,

 

I know this may sound tough, but frankly, why don't you terminate your contract with him now? 

 

What are you going to do if he turns up before Friday, as I believe he's promised, keep him on?

 

It sounds to me, as it does to others here, that you've made the decision, and are now worrying about it, and, perhaps, about the way you can terminate this contract with as little unpleasantness as possible, and also, perhaps, that you want the builder to fail to show, as promised, as that gives you another reason to end things.

 

In my view, the sooner you finish things with the builder the better.  Draw up a list of the conditions for terminating the contract, together with the things you need from him (like an itemised invoice, that clearly states that it is in full and final settlement of the work done to date), and go and see the chap.  If it were me, then I would probably choose not to terminate the contract on the grounds of anything the builder has or hasn't done.  I would tell a bit of a white lie, and say that you need to crack on and get the build finished, and want to make a greater personal contribution to what will be your new home.  After all, that's not very far from the truth, is it?

[ToughButterCup]

Just now, JSHarris said:

[...]

I know this may sound tough, but frankly, why don't you terminate your contract with him now? 

[...]

 

I'm almost there J.  No contract: day rate.

 

I greatly value Debbie's opinion. She knows the local trades folk well. She has long experience of dealing with and for them. 

What we need now, I think is a bit of vim and vigour in terms of networking to find two or three people (I don't expect to find just one person who can help all the time)  willing to give me a general hand for a fair reward.

 

This thread has already offered some simple ideas, and I'm getting on to that in 't mornin'.

 

[Declan52]

Time to put the big boy pants on and man d f up. Tell him straight that his time is up because of X,y,z and move on.  You have already made your mind up so you just need a gentle push!!

Go the DIY route and get someone in when needs must. Take each job as it comes and think it through as you usually do and you will be fine. Start knocking off the jobs and it won't be long till your sitting in your new pad wondering why you worried so much over the little bits of the build that drove you insane.

[Triassic]

Getting rid of our builder was the best decision we made. He didn't even come back for the tools he left on site and we never got a final invoice. It did left us in a bit of a hole but we pulled things together and in doing so found some great tradesmen.

 

the only thing is, don't under estimate the time you will need to put into the project. My wife suggests it takes three times longer doing it yourself. 

[Lesgrandepotato]

I think I'm pretty local to you guys and have a reasonable mob of chaps on the go - as you were on day rates and they've done the work I wanted to the standard I've wanted (that said its a conventional building. Its not passive and its not terribly Eco but it is a big build.

If you like, then drop me an Email or PM and we can compare names and you can have a look at the work they been doing. 

[Lesgrandepotato]

Pretty certain most of my lads hail from the junction 34/35 area.