Flooded basement....need reliable pump recommendations and high water alarm

[PeterW]

With all due respect I wouldn’t be designing this myself - you’ve seen the outcome when it doesn’t work - and I certainly wouldn’t be designing it by internet committee. 
 

Go find a specialist pump provider, give them your requirements and pay the bill. Your insurance will look for every way out of paying if it happens again and when asked “who designed and installed this”, turning round and saying you found the answer on a forum is a very quick route to them declining a claim and cancelling your insurance.
 

 

[markc]

+1 tried tested and approved sump systems are not that expensive

[Mr Punter]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

But when completed next time it will just spill out of the downstairs WC or if you have a downstairs shower that will be the first to over top.

 

I have known this happen.  Not pretty.

 

No, ours was just an open end and the property was fairly high up compared to others.  The first floor is raised by about 400mm and the street at the front where the main sewer is is a fair bit lower, so I think it would be fine.  We sold the flats several years ago but kept the freehold and I have not heard of any issues.

[Radian]

53 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

anyone know if water damaged electrical/electronic components/units can be used once dried or if they need to be thrown out and replaced?

Electronic devices, circuit boards and components are not directly affected by water.

Damage only occurs when power is present - then electrolysis begins and migration of metals will result in corrosion of the device.

Knowing this you have to priorities:

1. Remove power (disconnect or remove batteries)
2. Dry everything (in a warm airing cupboard for example)

If step one can be done almost immediately, no permanent damage will happen.

[ProDave]

If the water they were sumberged in dirty, probably better to open them and wash everything inside in clean water, then leave to dry.

 

What about the building structure?  We have oak flooring, if the same happened here the flooring and insulation under it not to mention joists etc would be soaked, so it would be a major floor up, dry out with large dehumidifiers and when dry replace probably with new flooring, definitely an insurance job.

[Thorfun]

17 minutes ago, Radian said:

Electronic devices, circuit boards and components are not directly affected by water.

Damage only occurs when power is present - then electrolysis begins and migration of metals will result in corrosion of the device.

Knowing this you have to priorities:

1. Remove power (disconnect or remove batteries)
2. Dry everything (in a warm airing cupboard for example)

If step one can be done almost immediately, no permanent damage will happen.

no power at all going to the stuff stored in the basement. hadn't been installed yet. we don't have a warm airing cupboard but the house warms up quite nicely when the sun is streaming through the windows (like today) and I'm not planning on installing any of this stuff this side of Christmas so plenty of time for it to all dry out.

 

thank you. I'm feeling a lot better about it all.

[Thorfun]

7 minutes ago, ProDave said:

If the water they were sumberged in dirty, probably better to open them and wash everything inside in clean water, then leave to dry.

 

What about the building structure?  We have oak flooring, if the same happened here the flooring and insulation under it not to mention joists etc would be soaked, so it would be a major floor up, dry out with large dehumidifiers and when dry replace probably with new flooring, definitely an insurance job.

the water was a bit brown so I would guess that's considered dirty. but not sure I can open Loxone components!

 

luckily no flooring or fixings are installed in the basement yet. just concrete walls and screeded floor. so once the puddle pump has finished and we run the dehumidifiers for a bit we should be back to where we started.

 

@ProDave in your opinion would you use electric cable that's been underwater assuming it's dried thoroughly? I have some 10mm cable I was saving for our hob which was affected. I guessing that once it's dry it'll be fine to use but thought I'd ask a professional. 🙂 

[Radian]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

the water was a bit brown so I would guess that's considered dirty. but not sure I can open Loxone components!

 

luckily no flooring or fixings are installed in the basement yet. just concrete walls and screeded floor. so once the puddle pump has finished and we run the dehumidifiers for a bit we should be back to where we started.

 

@ProDave in your opinion would you use electric cable that's been underwater assuming it's dried thoroughly? I have some 10mm cable I was saving for our hob which was affected. I guessing that once it's dry it'll be fine to use but thought I'd ask a professional. 🙂 

 

If you do want to wash any electronic devices, use de-mineralised water. That's what's used in manufacturing.

The cable ought to have an Insulation Resistance test done on it to confirm its integrity.

[ProDave]

I would not expect water to penetrate fat into a new drum of cable.  cut perhaps a metre off the end as that might corrode and I bet from there it will be bone dry.  As above insulation test it at 1000V and if that is okay you are good to go.

 

and also as above de ionised water for cleaning electronics.

[Pocster]

4 hours ago, PeterW said:

With all due respect I wouldn’t be designing this myself - you’ve seen the outcome when it doesn’t work - and I certainly wouldn’t be designing it by internet committee. 
 

Go find a specialist pump provider, give them your requirements and pay the bill. Your insurance will look for every way out of paying if it happens again and when asked “who designed and installed this”, turning round and saying you found the answer on a forum is a very quick route to them declining a claim and cancelling your insurance.
 

 

I’m not sure there’s a lot to actually design here . Obviously speak to a sump seller - but at the end of the day it’s a couple of pumps in a container with an outlet to the drain .

Making an insurance claim on failed pumps that you design / install yourself though could be an issue .

Depends on your attitude ( confidence? ) on this issue .

[Thorfun]

4 hours ago, PeterW said:

With all due respect I wouldn’t be designing this myself - you’ve seen the outcome when it doesn’t work - and I certainly wouldn’t be designing it by internet committee. 
 

Go find a specialist pump provider, give them your requirements and pay the bill. Your insurance will look for every way out of paying if it happens again and when asked “who designed and installed this”, turning round and saying you found the answer on a forum is a very quick route to them declining a claim and cancelling your insurance.
 

 

missed this comment, sorry. it's good advice and I'll take a look online at what I can find.

[Thorfun]

I was literally going to copy something like this

 

 

but with a 3rd pump a little higher up in case of double lower pump failure.

 

but I have found a local-ish basement sump pump company and I'll ask for a quote. the most annoying thing about that sort of company is they offer a 'service agreement' and the cheapest on their website is £30/month!! so if it's like an alarm company where they insist on you taking a service agreement out then that's a lot of money a year.

[Pocster]

4 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

I was literally going to copy something like this

 

 

but with a 3rd pump a little higher up in case of double lower pump failure.

 

but I have found a local-ish basement sump pump company and I'll ask for a quote. the most annoying thing about that sort of company is they offer a 'service agreement' and the cheapest on their website is £30/month!! so if it's like an alarm company where they insist on you taking a service agreement out then that's a lot of money a year.

I have something similar for my sewage pump . It can’t overflow of course unless both pumps fail and high water alert fails . Rainwater is of course the real issue - here I just have my 2 pumps at different heights in a hole in my concrete slab .

A ‘ service agreement ‘ is BS 😁

[saveasteading]

5 hours ago, saveasteading said:

local pump specialist

I meant retailer, but of course you can get a specialist contractor.

[Thorfun]

4 minutes ago, pocster said:

I have something similar for my sewage pump . It can’t overflow of course unless both pumps fail and high water alert fails . Rainwater is of course the real issue - here I just have my 2 pumps at different heights in a hole in my concrete slab .

A ‘ service agreement ‘ is BS 😁

yeah. we have a 2m deep hole (approx 600mm x 600mm wide) in our basement courtyard. all the groundwater from around the basement flows in to their from 2 x land drains outlets. we then have an outlet from the sump to our RWH tank. the sump was created from shuttering and poured in water proof concrete at the same time as the basement so I wasn't going to bother with a plastic tank as I have a waterproof hole already! I just need to get a couple of pumps hooked up to the outlet.

 

I do like @saveasteading's idea of different float heights and will look in to it some more.

[Pocster]

6 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

yeah. we have a 2m deep hole (approx 600mm x 600mm wide) in our basement courtyard. all the groundwater from around the basement flows in to their from 2 x land drains outlets. we then have an outlet from the sump to our RWH tank. the sump was created from shuttering and poured in water proof concrete at the same time as the basement so I wasn't going to bother with a plastic tank as I have a waterproof hole already! I just need to get a couple of pumps hooked up to the outlet.

 

I do like @saveasteading's idea of different float heights and will look in to it some more.

Excuse me !

 

” 

To add

 

My rainwater Zoellar pumps are at 2 different heights in a pit I.e lower than my basement floor .

 

“ 

 

nuff said bro 😎 

[Pocster]

I know you potentially were planning to have a basement WC … If that happens and possibly showers , another WC ( no idea of your layout / plans ) then a sump for all of this might be better than a macerator “ per thing “ as it were to pump up into the internal drain pipework .

 

If had to add the sump all for the sake of a basement WC - pita ….

Edited November 18, 2022 by pocster

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, pocster said:

Excuse me !

 

” 

To add

 

My rainwater Zoellar pumps are at 2 different heights in a pit I.e lower than my basement floor .

 

“ 

 

nuff said bro 😎 

great minds think alike as they say.

 

I'm sure there are other less complimentary sayings for the two of us as well but we'll just ignore those for now.

[Thorfun]

Just now, pocster said:

I know you potentially were planning to have a basement WC … If that happens and possibly showers , another WC ( no idea of your layout / plans ) then a sump for all of this might be better than a macerator “ per thing “ as it were .

no showers. just a WC/basin so macerator it will be. just waiting on the verdict for yours before deciding if we'll ever bother installing a WC/basin in the basement. 

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, Thorfun said:

no showers. just a WC/basin so macerator it will be. just waiting on the verdict for yours before deciding if we'll ever bother installing a WC/basin in the basement. 

SWMBO will want one - so accept your destiny to install one 

[Kelvin]

Sheesh what a nightmare. 
 

Electronic components recover well from getting wet as long as they aren’t powered up when wet obviously. I ran a maintenance company for several years and we regularly bathed components to clean them using distilled water and soft brushes. This was back in the days of smoking in offices so for anything really manky we’d use isopropyl alcohol as well. Take all the covers off and use an air duster to remove any loose dirt. Submerge in a bath of distilled water and use a  soft brush to clean. Drain the water off and then leave to dry. Anything that had a screen might well be buggered though unless you can source replacement screen parts. We also used baking soda to clean components. We had a special low temp oven type thing to aid drying. 

[Roger440]

In my case, pretty much what pocster has done.

 

Bought a twin pump (zoeller)version of this: https://www.sumpsandpumpsdirect.co.uk/acatalog/Zoeller-Grey-Water-Pumping-Station.html#SID=48

 

The pumps are at different levels. 

 

Mine was done to counter a flood event from the river, so they will rarely if ever be used.

 

In case of power failure, the same company supplied piggy back battery pump (12v) with capacity to run for 4 hours. Which in my case, is plenty. More batteries wouls increase that time.

 

For it not to work, both mains pumps and battery sysatem would need to fail. 

[Thorfun]

31 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

Sheesh what a nightmare. 
 

Electronic components recover well from getting wet as long as they aren’t powered up when wet obviously. I ran a maintenance company for several years and we regularly bathed components to clean them using distilled water and soft brushes. This was back in the days of smoking in offices so for anything really manky we’d use isopropyl alcohol as well. Take all the covers off and use an air duster to remove any loose dirt. Submerge in a bath of distilled water and use a  soft brush to clean. Drain the water off and then leave to dry. Anything that had a screen might well be buggered though unless you can source replacement screen parts. We also used baking soda to clean components. We had a special low temp oven type thing to aid drying. 

it just seems alien to submerge electronic components in water! finding it hard to get my head around the concept.

[Thorfun]

16 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

In my case, pretty much what pocster has done.

 

Bought a twin pump (zoeller)version of this: https://www.sumpsandpumpsdirect.co.uk/acatalog/Zoeller-Grey-Water-Pumping-Station.html#SID=48

 

The pumps are at different levels. 

 

Mine was done to counter a flood event from the river, so they will rarely if ever be used.

 

In case of power failure, the same company supplied piggy back battery pump (12v) with capacity to run for 4 hours. Which in my case, is plenty. More batteries wouls increase that time.

 

For it not to work, both mains pumps and battery sysatem would need to fail. 

I could literally put a concrete block at the bottom of the sump to put one of the pumps on! that'd give me the different levels.

 

much to think about.

[Radian]

22 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

it just seems alien to submerge electronic components in water! finding it hard to get my head around the concept.

I know. I think you instinctively know that water is conductive, so you expect bad things to happen if you mix the two. And bad things will indeed happen if there are electrical potentials around, but once there aren't, water is fairly inert. A lot of water is used in the manufacture of electronics. As @Kelvin says, LCD screens may be a little less forgiving due to their use of organic materials although it's no certain think they would be harmed.