Installed channel glass balustrade wobbles

[rhymecheat]

Hi all, hoping someone around here would have an informed opinion if this is normal or not. 
 

I’ve had a frameless (no handrail, floor mounted with a channel system) glass balustrade installed last month. It looks good and all but I find that it wobbles too much on contact. The wobbling doesn’t seem to be from the glass against the channel but instead the whole channel giving in to the point that I don’t feel comfortable leaning on it at all. 
 

I’ve attached a video to exemplify how much it wobbles

 

. 

As you can see the glass seems fixed to the channel, but the whole channel rocks back and forth. This is happening with minimal effort. 
 

When I questioned the installer I was told this had to be like this as if there was no give the glass could smash. I get that, but I also feel like the five should come from the glass against the channel, not from the whole channel moving back and forth. 
 

Anyone have any experience with this type of system that could tell me if the installer is correct or is this a bad installation?

 

thanks in advance

Edited September 25, 2022 by rhymecheat

[nod]

It definitely shouldn’t wobble like that 

It doesn’t look safe 

[Radian]

40 minutes ago, rhymecheat said:

When I questioned the installer I was told this had to be like this as if there was no give the glass could smash.

If that was correct it would be documented in the Manufacturers instructions for the channel system. Bet you won't find it. They usually spec. concrete screws that are tightened with a socket spanner as in this vid:

 

 

[Shoestring]

Goodness, I am no expert but that cannot be right! It looks like if you leaned on that, it would fall straight over!  Either there is a fault in the channel, the glass is too narrow for the channel or it's not been installed correctly.  I hope you can get this sorted out 🤞

[Roundtuit]

1 hour ago, rhymecheat said:

When I questioned the installer I was told this had to be like this as if there was no give the glass could smash.

Sounds like bull$hit.  The movement makes it less safe rather than more I reckon.  l can't imagine anyone being happy with that.  Probably worth getting hold of the manufacturers installer instructions if you can.

[rhymecheat]

Thank you all for the comments thus far. 
 

I’ve done some investigating and found out the specific system being used here. It’s a Bohle VetroMount. 
 

from YouTube clips 

 and 

 

 

it looks like these don’t wobble at all!

 

Im pretty convinced the channel isn’t properly installed and am looking to file a complaint with the installer in the morning. I’ve also contacted the manufacturer for confirmation that this is not the intended result. 
 

the only thing I could think of here is that while the manufacturer supplies screws for concrete, my balustrade is bolted to a solid brick patio…

[rhymecheat]

Does anyone know who I need to contact to come over and have a look at it to give me a professional assessment so I can go the installer with something better than just my opinion?

[markc]

Handrail-less glass does have some give but it’s the glass in the channel that moves, your channel is not fixed correctly. BCO, scaffold, temporary works, surveyor etc. should all refuse to accept that.

[Ralph]

I'm not sure if it's in building regulations but I seem to remember that 25mm of deflection at the top edge of the glass is the maximum acceptable. Yours looks more than that so I would measure it and try and find the applicable regulations. May be that it's industry or manufacturing standards rather than building regs.

 

Ours has some deflection because it has some decking between the spigots (we don't have the channel) and the steel beam it's bolted into. The decking has compressed in the months it has been installed and I'm waiting for the installer to come back and adjust it. 

 

Mine deflects by less than 15mm but because of the height it's a bit disconcerting. 

[Radian]

How high is it off the ground? If the drop on the other side of the glass balustrade is greater than 600mm Building Control should be involved.

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, rhymecheat said:

Does anyone know who I need to contact to come over and have a look at it to give me a professional assessment so I can go the installer with something better than just my opinion?

 

I'd start off with BCO, sending them the video. Who may come out and tell you it is unsafe. Get that confirmed by email.

 

Also the Chief Exec of the installer, and the senior and technical people at the UK Office of the manufacturer, if such exist.

 

In any case you should be refusing to pay a penny until the install is safe.

 

Make sure that you document carefully, as you will need to prove it.

 

F

 

[Mr Punter]

Let the supplier know in writing that it is not acceptable and send a copy of the video.  That is a huge amount of deflection under almost no load.

[rhymecheat]

26 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

In any case you should be refusing to pay a penny until the install is safe.

 

I already had to pay deposit (half the total) on ordering and then had to pay the full balance on completion without noticing the wobble. Even though I’ve paid the company they haven’t yet given me an invoice which makes me feel nervous about chasing them as they could potentially claim something else. 

 

40 minutes ago, Radian said:

How high is it off the ground? If the drop on the other side of the glass balustrade is greater than 600mm Building Control should be involved.

I believe it’s just over 700mm.

 

When the installer first came to measure he never mentioned that Building Control needed to inspect it…

[Nickfromwales]

I’m on a job atm where the same system has been installed on their balcony. They’ve gone with a top ‘C’ channel to bind all the panels of glass together, but before this was installed the deflection was prob 15mm if you really pushed / leaned onto each panel individually.

The bottom fix of your channel is just utter garbage, and knowing what they were fitting this into / onto, your installers should have asked for a footing under those bricks with stainless threaded bar embedded, then the bricks drilled and laid over the the threaded bars afaic. 

8mm 0r 10mm wedge anchors set in every 400mm may cure this, but unless the bricks have been seriously well installed and bedded in with a continuous, strong, mortar bed then the weak point will become the bricks themselves.

As it is, you should refuse it instantly and get the area rep from this manufacturer to come to site and work with both you, and your installer, to get this fixed properly.

[Nickfromwales]

FWIW, I didn’t like the system without the C channel, as it just didn’t feel like it would take a person falling hard against it. The amount of leverage from the top of one panel to the base rail is immense, and when I then spotted the C channel had been retrospectively fitted I tested it again and it was rock solid with prop 5-10mm deflection if you really really tried to move it. Full confidence WITH the C channel, but without it, I wouldn’t fit this in my own house.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Nickfromwales

[Pocster]

I’d get a person you don’t like and stand them against the glass . Then push them .

Plenty of professionals will be out then 

[Radian]

1 hour ago, rhymecheat said:

I already had to pay deposit (half the total) on ordering and then had to pay the full balance on completion without noticing the wobble. Even though I’ve paid the company they haven’t yet given me an invoice which makes me feel nervous about chasing them as they could potentially claim something else. 

 

I believe it’s just over 700mm.

 

When the installer first came to measure he never mentioned that Building Control needed to inspect it…

 

Brilliant. I'm sure lots of people ignore Approved Document K when doing hard landscaping yet, as I understand things, does apply to anywhere being constructed that presents a danger from falling. Perhaps someone could correct me if not the case?

[Conor]

14 hours ago, Radian said:

 

Brilliant. I'm sure lots of people ignore Approved Document K when doing hard landscaping yet, as I understand things, does apply to anywhere being constructed that presents a danger from falling. Perhaps someone could correct me if not the case?

Apparently it's only on areas directly accessed from the building. So not a treehouse, pergola, ornate fountain/pond, bandstand or shed in the middle of your garden. Just think of all the little landscaping walls and details with falls over 600mm. Country would end up being one big ballustrade.

[ProDave]

59 minutes ago, Conor said:

Apparently it's only on areas directly accessed from the building. So not a treehouse, pergola, ornate fountain/pond, bandstand or shed in the middle of your garden. Just think of all the little landscaping walls and details with falls over 600mm. Country would end up being one big ballustrade.

When we got a home report done on our old house, everything about the house scored a 1 (good) except the garden that got a 2.  I questioned the surveyor what was "wrong" with the garden, and his answer was "the burn"  To satisfy him and get a 1 for the garden would require a fence down both sides of the burn to stop anyone getting or falling into it.

[rhymecheat]

So… spoke to the manufacturer and sent them the video. Long story short they’re really not happy about the way this was installed. When the fitter first came over to measure he should have refused to install on brick or should have given an alternative. 
 

they’ve taken the business name and are going to reach out to them directly to resolve this. 
 

i feel like there’s no easy way to resolve and I should have just been told from the quote phase that this railing system wouldn’t work without a concrete base. So now it looks like the solution is to remove the whole thing and give me my money back… then I’ll have to redo the brick that’s been drilled into and do a different installation instead

[Ferdinand]

14 minutes ago, rhymecheat said:

So… spoke to the manufacturer and sent them the video. Long story short they’re really not happy about the way this was installed. When the fitter first came over to measure he should have refused to install on brick or should have given an alternative. 
 

they’ve taken the business name and are going to reach out to them directly to resolve this. 
 

i feel like there’s no easy way to resolve and I should have just been told from the quote phase that this railing system wouldn’t work without a concrete base. So now it looks like the solution is to remove the whole thing and give me my money back… then I’ll have to redo the brick that’s been drilled into and do a different installation instead

 

I'd also be asking them for a sum for damage done to the brick ie cost of reinstating. Have an estimate handy.

 

You could be going after them for more, but TBH I'd be satisfied with a clean walkaway.

 

What are your alternative plans? Can you just go with a system with intermediate stainless posts between panes?

[rhymecheat]

2 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

I'd also be asking them for a sum for damage done to the brick ie cost of reinstating. Have an estimate handy.

 

You could be going after them for more, but TBH I'd be satisfied with a clean walkaway.

 

What are your alternative plans? Can you just go with a system with intermediate stainless posts between panes?

Don’t know about alternative plans yet. It’s all too fresh and atm I’m really just focused on getting my money back, especially since this business is yet to give me an invoice for this work despite me asking. 

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, rhymecheat said:

Don’t know about alternative plans yet. It’s all too fresh and atm I’m really just focused on getting my money back, especially since this business is yet to give me an invoice for this work despite me asking. 

 

Your call of course, but if you are not up to speed with how much repairs will cost you can't ask them for the sum on top to put you where you would have been had they not failed.

 

However, a clean resolution that you are happy with is the key thing.

[Mr Punter]

You may be able to get a better profile T or F shaped like https://www.s3i.co.uk/top-mount-f-shape-frameless-pro-glass-balustrade.php

[markc]

1 minute ago, Mr Punter said:

You may be able to get a better profile T or F shaped like https://www.s3i.co.uk/top-mount-f-shape-frameless-pro-glass-balustrade.php

But if only fixed to top of brickwork it will still go over