Steep driveway costing me my marriage

[Adsibob]

A lot of effort went into designing our driveway, planters either side, lighting and steps. A lot of money as well. Unlike some other features of the build, SWMBO was consulted on every aspect. She was also home when they were laying it, because we moved in before it was done.

Well she hates it. She says it's too steep. In part she is right, but it is within the manufacturer's tolerances for steepness (we laid Marshall's drivesys pavers). 

The rise/run is about 17/75 which works out at slightly less than 13 degrees. We knew this would be the case but didn't think much of it as our direct neighbour has a driveway on a slope and we imagined it would look like theirs. But i now realise that our house is lower down than theirs and the pavement/street by our house is marginally higher than where it is by their house, and so our gradient is worse than theirs probably by about 2 degrees.

 

There are basically three issues that SWMBO complains about:

 

1. she has to do a hill start / hill stop every time she uses the driveway
2. the kids slip on it because it is so slippery (this has only happened once to each kid in the last month)
3. the kids could get crushed by swinging doors

 

The solution to issue 1 is practice.

The solution to issue 2 is patience or scrubbing it with something like Lithofin wax off. This is because the instructions for the pavers say: "The surface has a protective seal which can remain slippery for a period of time the length of which will be dependent on weather conditions and use. Extra care must be taken during this period especially on steep incline." I did specifically bring this to SWMBO's attention, as well as the supplier's suggestion that we clean off the protective wax if we were concerned. We haven't had a chance to apply the Lithofin wax off, but I guess this is easily done.

The solution to option 3 is to park downhill, which is easy coming into the drive, but more challenging reversing out of it. I still think this is a non-issue though. The kids are not so fragile that they will be crushed. At worst it's a minor bruise. 

 

The arguments with SWMBO are really starting to drive me crazy and we haven't even got to winter, when I suspect ice will actually make the driveway harder/impossible to use. She parks the car on the street and leaves our ridiculously expensive driveway unused. It's maddening. Why did i spend all that time, money and effort. It was one of the things that needed a lot of time and had some supplier problems that I had to sort out. And the Council was an absolute PITA to deal with, to organise the dropped kerb.

 

Although 13 degrees is quite a lot, it is well within tolerance for the product. The instructions state: "For driveways on an incline of 15 degrees or more or that has specific installation and design requirements, please contact Marshalls Technical Advisory Services".

 

So the options are:

 

1. divorce
2. lift up the pavers, relay the sub-base at a different angle, and then create a trench for our house. This seems mad. It will ruin the look of the front, make the bike shed a little inaccessible and possibly look very weird. At most it would reduce the gradient by about 1.5 degrees, to about 11.5. This just seems like a very expensive option for not that much benefit. I reckon it's at least £2000 worth of work, and that's assuming the pavers come up easily, though hopefully they will as there is just the jointing compound laid on top which is holding them down. i.e. no adhesive underneath.
3. ignore wife's parking, let her park in the road and make her pay the fines when she gets fined.

 

[Onoff]

5 hours ago, Adsibob said:

when I suspect ice will actually make the driveway harder/impossible to use.

 

Should have put UFH in the drive! Seriously, I may well do so on mine, just two strips the width of the car wheels.

 

Heated by compost, biogas, bfo ST array or something. 

[Onoff]

Option 4. Move.

[Dave Jones]

have enough room to make a zig-zag or move the entrance ?

 

one of the many reason some plots are cheaper than others!

[nod]

I wouldn’t worry If it wasn’t the drive it would be something else

[Kelvin]

Install a button lift for the winter. 
 

We had a similar problem but fortunately has the room to move the entrance down the hill so the driveway goes back up the contour rather than across it. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Kelvin

[joe90]

6 hours ago, Adsibob said:

SWMBO was consulted on every aspect.

So her fault as much as yours (but your not complaining?)

6 hours ago, Adsibob said:

she has to do a hill start / hill stop every time she uses the driveway

So do you, are you complaining?

 

as she is the one with the problem perhaps you could ask what SHE is going to do about it? (I firmly believe in equality and that covers EVERYTHING)

Edited September 14, 2022 by joe90

[Kelvin]

On the hill start/stop. Buy an EV they are great for starting and stopping on hills. If you got a Model X the doors won’t swing back. £100k and problem solved. Cheaper than divorce too. 

[TonyT]

Leave it for a bit, people take time to get used to something different.

 

slippy with ice would be

my biggest concern with slips trips and falls resulting in potential accidents.

 Can a handrail be added At the side of the drive to help in the winter..

 

[Onoff]

You don't want to upset SWMBO too often, slippery slope that.

[Adsibob]

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

have enough room to make a zig-zag or move the entrance ?

 

one of the many reason some plots are cheaper than others!

Unfortunately the entire driveway is the length of our front yard: 5.7m on the hypotenuse, so no room for any zigzagging.

[ProDave]

I would always try and design a driveway at least with an almost flat parking area even if the approach is steep.

 

I make your drive slope somewhere between 1 in 4 and 1 in 5.  That is steep.  If we had that steep up here there would be a lot of the year it would not be usable without a good stock of salt and a lot of shoveling.

 

Pictures of the drive and surroundings to give context?

[joe90]

25 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

Buy an EV they are great for starting and stopping on hills.

Or an automatic, most modern cars have auto handbrakes nowadays, perhaps SHE could buy herself a new car.

[Adsibob]

I agree with @ProDave’s most recent comment, but I’m really not sure how we could have avoided this without a massive infill of land right in front our front window, obscuring most daylight into our front room. I don’t mind the hill starts/stops, I actually quite enjoy them. I don’t like the slipping risk of people or the issue of ice, but we are in London where we get ice at most about one or two weeks a year.

I do think people will get used to it the rest of the year, she just needs to give it a chance. I think the only options are hope she also  gets used to it, or relay it, ruin the aesthetic slightly, and make the slope 1.5 degrees or so shallower. Just worry that 11.5 is not much better than 13.

[joe90]

3 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

Just worry that 11.5 is not much better than 13.

I agree.

[ProDave]

What I see people up here do where a steep drive is the only option, is to create an additional flat parking area right by the road, and then steps down to the house from there.  Better to moan at sometimes having to park further from the house and walk down steps, than not being able to get up the drive in wet or icy weather.

[Adsibob]

I guess we could relay it significantly higher and forego 50cm of daylight into our front room. The windows are about 1.5m high, so would still see some sky when the car is parked. Will look awfully weird, but I guess it will stop the arguments and the kids falling (until they learn how not to) and make it easier to use in winter. We would still have a slope, but I estimate it would be about 6 or 7 degrees rather than 13.

[Kelvin]

34 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I would always try and design a driveway at least with an almost flat parking area even if the approach is steep.

 

I make your drive slope somewhere between 1 in 4 and 1 in 5.  That is steep.  If we had that steep up here there would be a lot of the year it would not be usable without a good stock of salt and a lot of shoveling.

 

Pictures of the drive and surroundings to give context?

Would we even be allowed such a steep driveway if it exits onto the public highway. There are rules about fall etc. It caused us no end of grief trying to work out an access and driveway scheme. 

[Happy Valley]

Which way does the driveway face in the morning? This can massively effect ice melting. If it is in the shade all day then ice could be constant in a harsh period in the winter. 

 

Seem to remember you are in the London area so winter temps are generally pretty high in comparison to most of rest of the country.

[ProDave]

2 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

Would we even be allowed such a steep driveway if it exits onto the public highway. There are rules about fall etc. It caused us no end of grief trying to work out an access and driveway scheme. 

Not here no.  The first I think 5 metres can only be a very slight gradient.  It is this bit people often use as their bad weather parking spot and walk down (or up) to the house.

[Jilly]

Both of you need to breath. A friend of mine has the saying 'What's this really about?' Apologise. Understand each other's POV. Get an automatic, bags of salt, some time, and book yourselves in with Relate. The housebuilding has driven you both bonkers and you are frustrated that you have spent so much time and money and it's still not perfect... Sometimes we try to control one thing because something else is out of control. You will probably still have to redo the drive, but try to live with it for a while to both figure out what would be best collaboratively, or she may still not like the result...

Edited September 14, 2022 by Jilly

[Mr Punter]

A site plan would be useful.  I think it may be best to have it much more level, then steps down to the front door.  You will probably need a retaining wall.

[SimonD]

I agree with @Jilly - live with it for a while and see how you go. Work collaboratively and remember that a develoment is always going to require some compromise and outcomes you perhaps didn't dream of.

 

Our driveway happens to be a smidgen steeper than 1:5 where my wife parks her car, the rest of it slopes but not as much. It's north facing out in countryside so more ice - this bit sometimes doesn't get to see sunshine as the house also shades the area. Never really had a problem other than when it has snowed, even during Beast from the East. I have a tub of salted grit and haven't touched it in years. Ours is tarmac mind you. I know a few people locally with steepers drives that do get used to it.

 

I do wonder if you redid the drive with infill you'd end up with giref about the loss of view as it's going to be difficult to imagine what it'll look like and if it'll make the difference you want.

 

And BTW my wife has a 4wd RAV4 automatic - parking is a cinch and never complained. More complains from me when carrying materials from all the deliveries not able to get up the drive!

 

[Russdl]

‘Happy wife - happy life’
 

Get an automatic. 
Wrap the kids in cotton wool.

 

Then follow @Jilly’s advice. 

[Onoff]

Give the little sods a sledge and pick them up at the bottom.