Solar power payback takes much longer than you think

[SteamyTea]

7 minutes ago, Radian said:

Out of curiosity, what wattage are they

One is 1.5 kW, other 3 kW ish.

Small one has 2 elements, the bigger one 4.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Radian said:

I'm even struggling to write it out in English let alone modelling it in a simultaneous equation

Model it as a polynomial equation.

Better still, create a performance matrix and let Excel do the curve fitting. It is something Excel is good at.

Halfway through my coffee.

Edited August 30, 2022 by SteamyTea

[Pocster]

21 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Model it as a polynomial equation.

Better still, create a performance matrix and let Excel do the curve fitting. It is something Excel is good at.

Halfway through my coffee.

Model it on a quaternion quantum normalised vector . Should get you what you want . Just looked at my coffee .

[jack]

13 hours ago, Kelvin said:

I know many people with EVs. All of them have had our experience more or less. None will go back to ICE cars. 

 

2.5 years with a BEV for us and I wouldn't go back despite the drawbacks.

They're expensive, although I think we're ahead given cheaper per mile running costs (especially given we already have a lot of PV), lower servicing costs, and much lower BIK (currently leasing through my business).

[SteamyTea]

10 minutes ago, pocster said:

Just looked at my coffee .

Just think how simple life would be without coffee, we would soon learn not to think too hard.

[Kelvin]

24 minutes ago, jack said:

 

2.5 years with a BEV for us and I wouldn't go back despite the drawbacks.

They're expensive, although I think we're ahead given cheaper per mile running costs (especially given we already have a lot of PV), lower servicing costs, and much lower BIK (currently leasing through my business).

Builders are here at the rental today. All equipment electrical. There’s a power cut in the area so play stopped until I said we could run their gear from my car if their extension lead was long enough.  😂 Young brickie amazed.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Kelvin

[AliG]

We too would never go back from an EV. Like most people we mainly drive locally. I think 96% of all trips are less than 20 miles from memory.

 

Never having to go to a petrol station is a massive benefit.

 

Charge at 7.5p/kWh on Octopus GO, so my energy cost equates to around 3p/mile. Equivalent to 250MPG at 7.50 a gallon. Similar size and performance cars do more like 25MPG.

 

Maybe I wasn't clear in my earlier post, that the return of PV is dependent on self use, but at a minimum probably 10% ROI which is excellent. Current high prices would probably reduce a 10 year payback to around 8. Not a fan of payback periods, they encourage short term thinking but are what many people seem to use.

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, jack said:

 

2.5 years with a BEV for us and I wouldn't go back despite the drawbacks.

They're expensive, although I think we're ahead given cheaper per mile running costs (especially given we already have a lot of PV), lower servicing costs, and much lower BIK (currently leasing through my business).

 

I think there's a lot to be said for secondhand electricals, given depreciation.

 

I'll consider one next time around - still waiting for something sensible able to tow 2 tonnes.

[Radian]

54 minutes ago, AliG said:

Not a fan of payback periods, they encourage short term thinking but are what many people seem to use.

Depends on how old you are.

[jack]

3 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

I think there's a lot to be said for secondhand electricals, given depreciation.

 

Tell me how you get on with that.

 

I was looking at buying ours at the end of the lease period and the depreciation is nowhere near what I'd expected.

 

I've looked at other models and they're no better. For example, I quite like the look of the 64kWh Kona. The most expensive model sold at about £37k retail two years ago, but you can't buy one that's two years old in any condition or mileage for less than about £30k. Low mileage cars are listed at £34k or even £35+k.

 

To be fair, this affects all second hand cars to an extent due to supply shortages on new cars.

 

Another issue is that there aren't many electric cars in the 2 or 3 year old class (my preference for buying to long-term hold) that have the longer range I want from my next car. I suspect that's what's holding up the value of those bigger-batteried cars.

I'll certainly be taking a much closer look at this towards the end of the year, but don't hold out much hope of getting a deal unless the economic situation falls over into a screaming heap (in which case that last thing I'll be doing is tying £30+k of my capital up in a car).

[Marvin]

14 minutes ago, jack said:

 

Tell me how you get on with that.

 

I was looking at buying ours at the end of the lease period and the depreciation is nowhere near what I'd expected.

 

I've looked at other models and they're no better. For example, I quite like the look of the 64kWh Kona. The most expensive model sold at about £37k retail two years ago, but you can't buy one that's two years old in any condition or mileage for less than about £30k. Low mileage cars are listed at £34k or even £35+k.

 

To be fair, this affects all second hand cards to an extent due to supply shortages on new cars.

 

Another issue is that there aren't many electric cars in the 2 or 3 year old class (my preference for buying to long-term hold) that have the longer range I want from my next car. I suspect that's what's holding up the value of those bigger-batteried cars.

I'll certainly be taking a much closer look at this towards the end of the year, but don't hold out much hope of getting a deal unless the economic situation falls over into a screaming heap (in which case that last thing I'll be doing is tying £30+k of my capital up in a car).

I think your missing the point. We ordered our new EV car last Xmas and there is still no sign of it appearing before next year, so no second hand EV from us! You try buying a new EV from a dealer right now and you will be on a waiting list. So no new ones, no secondhand ones.

[Ferdinand]

Autotrader currently has 5k of secondhand electric cars with ranges >200 miles - so there are some around.

[AliG]

My parents ordered an ID3 at  the end of last October. We have a build date for this October.

 

The good thing is that we got a massive discount last year as well as the EV grant (if we still get it) and so are paying almost 10k less than the same car would cost today.

 

As the market share of EVs will keep increasing and the market share of ICE cars falling, then there will be a shortage of used EVs and surplus of used ICE for quite a few years. This suggest that EVs should continue to depreciate less than ICE cars for some time. Personally I think paying nearly new price for 2yr old cars is crazy.

[ProDave]

6 minutes ago, AliG said:

As the market share of EVs will keep increasing and the market share of ICE cars falling, then there will be a shortage of used EVs and surplus of used ICE for quite a few years. This suggest that EVs should continue to depreciate less than ICE cars for some time. Personally I think paying nearly new price for 2yr old cars is crazy.

Good.  So in a few years I should be able to buy a good not very old, low mileage used ICE car as my "final" ICE car to look after and keep as long as possible, for not very much money then.

 

We already have a hybrid "shopping trolley" and will likely replace that with an EV shopping trolley when a used one becomes affordable, but I just can't let go of an ICE car as long as I want to tow a tin box behind it to go on holidays etc.

[JohnMo]

We go down south a couple of times a year couldn't imagine doing it in an EV, would need at least two charging stops, (charging point(s) either full or not working) would add loads of time to journey; which is already way to long.  ICE car get each way without a stop.

[Kelvin]

26 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

We go down south a couple of times a year couldn't imagine doing it in an EV, would need at least two charging stops, (charging point(s) either full or not working) would add loads of time to journey; which is already way to long.  ICE car get each way without a stop.

It’s not been my experience at all. And you ought to stop regardless of the car. We arrive at the end of long journeys feeling much less tired that we ever did driving any other car. It’s hard to explain but I am sure it’s a combination of a few quickish stops (the I5 charges very quickly) and the ease of driving an EV. 

[jack]

2 hours ago, Marvin said:

I think your missing the point. 

 

I'm genuinely puzzled by what point you think I'm missing given that we seem to be saying the same thing.

 

You said:

 

2 hours ago, Marvin said:

We ordered our new EV car last Xmas and there is still no sign of it appearing before next year, so no second hand EV from us! You try buying a new EV from a dealer right now and you will be on a waiting list. So no new ones, no secondhand ones.

 

And I said (having just pointed out low depreciation on EVs):

 

2 hours ago, jack said:

To be fair, this affects all second hand cars to an extent due to supply shortages on new cars. [i.e., supply shortages of new -> people hang on to old]

 

Am I missing something?

[JohnMo]

22 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

It’s not been my experience at all. And you ought to stop regardless of the car. We arrive at the end of long journeys feeling much less tired that we ever did driving any other car. It’s hard to explain but I am sure it’s a combination of a few quickish stops (the I5 charges very quickly) and the ease of driving an EV. 

 

Don't get me wrong I do stop, but I can stop at a farm shop or similar where there are no charging points, or fuel points and get a decent meal also.

[saveasteading]

4 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

I think there's a lot to be said for secondhand electricals, given depreciation.

We are looking, and surprised how expensive they are . Nissan Leaf new 'from' £32,000, 3 years old and 30,000 miles, a bit tatty, £21,000.

Most dealers don't have any.

 

 

[TonyT]

50 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

We are looking, and surprised how expensive they are . Nissan Leaf new 'from' £32,000, 3 years old and 30,000 miles, a bit tatty, £21,000.

Most dealers don't have any.

 

 

Have a look at Cameron’s in Perth,

got mine there coming up for 2 years ago. Good deals to be had then

[saveasteading]

37 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Cameron’s in Perth,

Although the project is Inverness, we live in the SE. with 120 miles maximum per charge that will take 4 stages.

I will have  a look though, thanks.

[AliG]

4 hours ago, JohnMo said:

We go down south a couple of times a year couldn't imagine doing it in an EV, would need at least two charging stops, (charging point(s) either full or not working) would add loads of time to journey; which is already way to long.  ICE car get each way without a stop.

 

Everyone has a different thought process, but this seems a bit odd.

 

Why would you base your decision on two trips/four charging stops a year. That is literally four hours a year. I suspect that you would soon get used to it.

 

Everyone is different, I worked in London for 19 years and have never once driven there, too stressful for my liking.

[Simplysimon]

3 hours ago, Kelvin said:

and the ease of driving an EV. 

and how does that differ to an ICE?

[joe90]

4 hours ago, Kelvin said:

and the ease of driving an EV. 

What difference from an automatic (like I drive)?

[ProDave]

27 minutes ago, Simplysimon said:

and how does that differ to an ICE?

Just another automatic car.